<< <i>I agree with your assessment of PRE- SALES as it pertains to sleazy, but what would you say to a guy who sells a coin with fingerprints and calls it funky toning ? I mean, you don't have to be a powerseller to tell the truth >>
......... LOL........ I think I know that coin......... LOL!!!!
<< <i>he can get the coins. it will just cost him more, thats all. thats the implied risk he took when he listed an item he didnt own. >>
Yep. The "short sale" analogy is a perfect one, I think -- you're "selling" something you don't own, with the assumption you can buy it and deliver it later for less money.
The problem is, when you sell short a stock at $505, you can't say "my bad" because you thought you'd be able to buy the stock back for $420 while it's sprinted to $700 or more. Suck it up, bunky...
<< <i>i didnt agree with his muttally request not to complete the transation.
this what he said "I told you last night I do NOT have the coins and the Mint has cancelled my order. There are NO coins to sell. They capped orders at 40,000 coins and they all are sold. I need you to accept my request so that Ebay wont charge me over $200.00 in fees for something I cannot deliver. Please help me out on this. I cannot get the coins....no one can now."
i kind feel bad for the guy...
i won 7 of his coins...
he actually closed his ebay store like he said he would on one of the first emails i got from him...saying he was tired of people not believing him blah blah... >>
I agree! I feel bad for him too. $200 is a lot---But he did it himself. Like others said if the price remained at issue price or dropped he would have bought them (on eBay) and sent them out. The only way to stop these presale gamblers is to file NPS and neg them. I would think that eBay would remove any Neg you might receive? Does anyone know for sure about that.
You have an agreement to purchase, but he doesn't have the product. I would let it go. Mutual cancellation, and just don't leave feedback (as there really was no transaction). That's assuming it was a simple mistake.
<< <i>Has the mint cancelled anyone's order, yet? >>
Interesting question. I find it highly unlikely that they would already be cancelling orders. The mint has no way of knowing at this point how many returns or bad credit cards they've gotten, so they don't know where they stand as far as the waiting list goes.
<< <i>You have an agreement to purchase, but he doesn't have the product. I would let it go. Mutual cancellation, and just don't leave feedback (as there really was no transaction). That's assuming it was a simple mistake. >>
"Its as simple as this, I am even closing my store on Ebay because I am tired of people questioning my honesty. I got no coins, and I want no coins, and I will never sell coins again to try to supplement my income. I am tired of this whol crappy mess, Ebay, the Mint, everything. I am tired of it all and I am simply closing up and getting out. I am tired of people not hearing what I am saying. I spoke to a clerk at the mint who told me I was too far down on the list to get any of my coins. I was being honest with you and telling you I could NOT fill the order. What else can I say......I was just being honest with you."
i then asked him to give the first 6 digit order number
"No problem, 254387
I really am sorry....the Mint has messed me over for the last time. Not that it hurts them, but it put me out of business cause I am just tired of their antics. "
comprared to my orders which were placed at 1:30 hes really far down. my orders are 254344xx so hes like 4.000 orders after me...
but he could just be lying about the numbers...i don't think the mint would cancel the order...
<< <i>"Its as simple as this, I am even closing my store on Ebay because I am tired of people questioning my honesty. I got no coins, and I want no coins, and I will never sell coins again to try to supplement my income. I am tired of this whol crappy mess, Ebay, the Mint, everything. I am tired of it all and I am simply closing up and getting out. I am tired of people not hearing what I am saying. I spoke to a clerk at the mint who told me I was too far down on the list to get any of my coins. I was being honest with you and telling you I could NOT fill the order. What else can I say......I was just being honest with you."
i then asked him to give the first 6 digit order number
"No problem, 254387
I really am sorry....the Mint has messed me over for the last time. Not that it hurts them, but it put me out of business cause I am just tired of their antics. "
comprared to my orders which were placed at 1:30 hes really far down. my orders are 254344xx so hes like 4.000 orders after me...
but he could just be lying about the numbers...i don't think the mint would cancel the order... >>
I ordered mine at 3:45 and when I ordered them the Mint website said that orders have already been taking which exceeded the mintage but would still accept orders.
My 1st order # 254378XX My last order # 254380XX
So he knew there was almost NO chance of getting the order.
I would first report it to ebay , However as already said I would watch his auction for a month if he sells any of the hags I would neg him and say why.
I suspect he's probably telling the truth and overestimated his ability to get the coins. Except that the order wasn't likely cancelled, just unlikely to be fulfilled.
BUT -- I still think you have to pay the price for failing to deliver the goods. You live by the pre-sale, you die by the pre-sale.
<< <i>BUT -- I still think you have to pay the price for failing to deliver the goods. You live by the pre-sale, you die by the pre-sale. >>
I agree. If I short a stock (without actually owning any) and it skyrockets the next day, guess who still has to pay when it comes time to cover? Such is the nature of gambling. You play the game you gotta play by the rules.
It's even shadier now. He sent this message out (presumable to all orderers):
Since none of the parties who agreed to buy the First Spouse Gold Coins have bothered to pay under Ebay rules you haven't purchased anything from me and I have received no money from you so there is no contract. You must pay for there to be a contract. All orders have been cancelled. The Mint has no more of these and they are no longer available for sale
Jerry
I can't believe he'd do this. I have the Paypal transaction records. Paid on June 19, refunded on June 20, this email send on June 21...
He sent this reply:
Q: Sir, You have not no money tied up in this and I certainly am not going to buy coins for you. You wanna pay, then I will find your coins. Jerry
So I responded:
Jerry, You refunded my payment yesterday (check your Paypal transaction ledger). I will re-send the payment if you intend to hold up your end of the contract.
I also refused to mutually withdraw the transactions.
I had a seller of an existing item renege on the deal. He sent me a refund and claimed that he made a mistake in the listing. He relisted the coin and got more bids the second time.
I wouldn't buy an item that the seller thinks he will have sometime.
<< <i>I can't believe he'd do this. I have the Paypal transaction records. Paid on June 19, refunded on June 20, this email send on June 21...
He sent this reply:
Q: Sir, You have not no money tied up in this and I certainly am not going to buy coins for you. You wanna pay, then I will find your coins. Jerry
So I responded:
Jerry, You refunded my payment yesterday (check your Paypal transaction ledger). I will re-send the payment if you intend to hold up your end of the contract.
I also refused to mutually withdraw the transactions. >>
Good point, Ziggy. This type of neg is the only way that non-performing sellers can be effectively dealt with, especially when it comes to playing the float with Mint issues. Once he gets 3 strikes, he's out..........and with his tactics, it shouldn't take long.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
The Mint changes the rules all of the time. This is why you get into trouble with presales.
I ordered 220 of the 2001 Buffalo Coin & Currency sets and had the order cut down to 20 (I did order some single coins and some 2 coin sets, so I did OK on those) but I didn't try to sell any of them until I had them. Why get 200 people mad at you when you can't deliver especially on a hot item?
I'd keep playing. I don't think the heavy stuff will be coming down for quite a while!
I had several exchanges with the seller. In the end I explained to him that he took a risk and he owed me the coins at whatever cost and that I expected him to deliver. I also said that I would compromise and only require delivery of one of two coins. He actually replied back and said that he would begin efforts to procure the coin and fulfill the transaction for me. I was shocked, and pleased. He also explained that he was a small timer trying to make a quick dollar and he got in over his head. I believe him - I think that's pretty obvious.
I replied back and told him to forget the whole transaction, but I also told him that if I saw him selling these coins in the near future I would pursue every remedy available to me to go after him. In the end I was satisfied to see that he was allegedly willing to perform, but I couldn't bring myself to make him take such a huge loss on the deal. I trade a lot on Ebay, and I want good to keep my good Ebay karma going. I think he learned his lesson.
Your correspondence with this guy is a credit to humanity, in the name of decency. Thanks for the update. It's good that we keep each other in check. It makes our world a better place.
<< <i>I ordered 220 of the 2001 Buffalo Coin & Currency sets and had the order cut down to 20 (I did order some single coins and some 2 coin sets, so I did OK on those) but I didn't try to sell any of them until I had them. Why get 200 people mad at you when you can't deliver especially on a hot item? >>
Same here. By the time I got my Buffalos, the price had cooled down some (20% or so) from the early presale levels. But I didn't have 50 people screaming their heads of and cussing me out the whole time, either. Presales are bad for two reasons: a) you might not get the coins, b) who knows how long it'll take to get the coins. It took three months before I received my Buffalos from the Mint. Imagine if I had done a presale the day they sold out--I would have had people screaming at me (rightfully so) for three months. It isn't worth that kind of hassle!
I heard they were making a French version of Medal of Honor. I wonder how many hotkeys it'll have for "surrender."
<< <i>I had a seller of an existing item renege on the deal. He sent me a refund and claimed that he made a mistake in the listing. He relisted the coin and got more bids the second time.
I wouldn't buy an item that the seller thinks he will have sometime.
>>
My buddy has same problem with a seller now, picked up one low price, guy calims they cancelled his order, I told him it was BS, sure enough the guy then later sells a 2 4 piece sets BIN's , (completed) I told him the guy was a con and shoulda pulled his BIN listings if any of his orders were cancelled for singles...anyway, guy had same excuse with order numbers, probably grabbed one off of here....
Comments
Don't forget to neg him if he fails to come through.
roadrunner
<< <i>I agree with your assessment of PRE- SALES as it pertains to sleazy, but what would you say to a guy who sells a coin with fingerprints and calls it funky toning ? I mean, you don't have to be a powerseller to tell the truth
......... LOL........ I think I know that coin......... LOL!!!!
I did a pre sale 1x, and will never do it again. I agree they are sleazy.
Steve
<< <i>he can get the coins. it will just cost him more, thats all. thats the implied risk he took when he listed an item he didnt own. >>
Yep. The "short sale" analogy is a perfect one, I think -- you're "selling" something you don't own, with the assumption you can buy it and deliver it later for less money.
The problem is, when you sell short a stock at $505, you can't say "my bad" because you thought you'd be able to buy the stock back for $420 while it's sprinted to $700 or more. Suck it up, bunky...
Has the mint cancelled anyone's order, yet?
<< <i>i didnt agree with his muttally request not to complete the transation.
this what he said
"I told you last night I do NOT have the coins and the Mint has cancelled my order. There are NO coins to sell. They capped orders at 40,000 coins and they all are sold. I need you to accept my request so that Ebay wont charge me over $200.00 in fees for something I cannot deliver. Please help me out on this. I cannot get the coins....no one can now."
i kind feel bad for the guy...
i won 7 of his coins...
he actually closed his ebay store like he said he would on one of the first emails i got from him...saying he was tired of people not believing him blah blah... >>
I agree! I feel bad for him too. $200 is a lot---But he did it himself.
Like others said if the price remained at issue price or dropped he would have bought them (on eBay) and sent them out.
The only way to stop these presale gamblers is to file NPS and neg them. I would think that eBay would remove any Neg you might receive?
Does anyone know for sure about that.
Rookie Joe
<< <i>Has the mint cancelled anyone's order, yet? >>
I ordered 1 each around 3:45 and they still show as "on hold"
Joe
<< <i>I need you to accept my request so that Ebay wont charge me over $200.00 in fees for something I cannot deliver. >>
That's just too friggin' bad. Make him eat it.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>Has the mint cancelled anyone's order, yet? >>
Interesting question. I find it highly unlikely that they would already be cancelling orders. The mint has no way of knowing at this point how many returns or bad credit cards they've gotten, so they don't know where they stand as far as the waiting list goes.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>You have an agreement to purchase, but he doesn't have the product. I would let it go. Mutual cancellation, and just don't leave feedback (as there really was no transaction). That's assuming it was a simple mistake. >>
IMO all presales should not be allowed, period.
Or as others mentioned play the waiting game and see if he sells later.
<< <i>IMO all presales should not be allowed, period. >>
You need to take that up with eBay; no one here on these boards can do anything about it; you are preachin to the choir.
The only orders that they have cancelled are the over limit orders.
San Diego, CA
i then asked him to give the first 6 digit order number
"No problem, 254387
I really am sorry....the Mint has messed me over for the last time. Not that it hurts them, but it put me out of business cause I am just tired of their antics. "
comprared to my orders which were placed at 1:30 hes really far down. my orders are 254344xx so hes like 4.000 orders after me...
but he could just be lying about the numbers...i don't think the mint would cancel the order...
<< <i>"Its as simple as this, I am even closing my store on Ebay because I am tired of people questioning my honesty. I got no coins, and I want no coins, and I will never sell coins again to try to supplement my income. I am tired of this whol crappy mess, Ebay, the Mint, everything. I am tired of it all and I am simply closing up and getting out. I am tired of people not hearing what I am saying. I spoke to a clerk at the mint who told me I was too far down on the list to get any of my coins. I was being honest with you and telling you I could NOT fill the order. What else can I say......I was just being honest with you."
i then asked him to give the first 6 digit order number
"No problem, 254387
I really am sorry....the Mint has messed me over for the last time. Not that it hurts them, but it put me out of business cause I am just tired of their antics. "
comprared to my orders which were placed at 1:30 hes really far down. my orders are 254344xx so hes like 4.000 orders after me...
but he could just be lying about the numbers...i don't think the mint would cancel the order... >>
I ordered mine at 3:45 and when I ordered them the Mint website said that orders have already been taking which exceeded the mintage but would still accept orders.
My 1st order # 254378XX
My last order # 254380XX
So he knew there was almost NO chance of getting the order.
Joe
San Diego, CA
Steve
NEG HIM
This is a serious dilemma you're in ! What would Mark Feld do ?
What would Laura do ?
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
So he though $505 was a good BIN price, and he thought he could order in the afternoon and still get the coins.
I hope that he didn't make any important decisions that day....
BUT -- I still think you have to pay the price for failing to deliver the goods. You live by the pre-sale, you die by the pre-sale.
<< <i>So he though $505 was a good BIN price, and he thought he could order in the afternoon and still get the coins.
I hope that he didn't make any important decisions that day.... >>
A crazy BIN price.
$505 -$40 (8% ebay and paypal fees) = $465- $420 issue price equals net profit of $45.
Pretty tight margin.
Joe
<< <i>BUT -- I still think you have to pay the price for failing to deliver the goods. You live by the pre-sale, you die by the pre-sale. >>
I agree. If I short a stock (without actually owning any) and it skyrockets the next day, guess who still has to pay when it comes time to cover? Such is the nature of gambling. You play the game you gotta play by the rules.
Yea... try telling it to a stock broker!
Since none of the parties who agreed to buy the First Spouse Gold Coins have
bothered to pay under Ebay rules you haven't purchased anything from me and
I have received no money from you so there is no contract. You must pay for
there to be a contract. All orders have been cancelled. The Mint has no more
of these and they are no longer available for sale
Jerry
I can't believe he'd do this. I have the Paypal transaction records. Paid on June 19, refunded on June 20, this email send on June 21...
He sent this reply:
Q: Sir, You have not no money tied up in this and I certainly am not going to buy coins for you. You wanna pay, then I will find your coins. Jerry
So I responded:
Jerry, You refunded my payment yesterday (check your Paypal transaction ledger). I will re-send the payment if you intend to hold up your end of the contract.
I also refused to mutually withdraw the transactions.
<< <i>the Mint has messed me over for the last time. Not that it hurts them, but it put me out of business cause I am just tired of their antics. >>
This guy tries to bet on the come and sell coins he doesn't have, and it's the mint's fault?
Russ, NCNE
He sent me a refund and claimed that he made a mistake in the listing.
He relisted the coin and got more bids the second time.
I wouldn't buy an item that the seller thinks he will have sometime.
The Mysterious Egyptian Magic Coin
Coins in Movies
Coins on Television
<< <i>I can't believe he'd do this. I have the Paypal transaction records. Paid on June 19, refunded on June 20, this email send on June 21...
He sent this reply:
Q: Sir, You have not no money tied up in this and I certainly am not going to buy coins for you. You wanna pay, then I will find your coins. Jerry
So I responded:
Jerry, You refunded my payment yesterday (check your Paypal transaction ledger). I will re-send the payment if you intend to hold up your end of the contract.
I also refused to mutually withdraw the transactions. >>
Have you NPS'd him yet?
If not, then why not?
If not, then why not?
Good point, Ziggy. This type of neg is the only way that non-performing sellers can be effectively dealt with, especially when it comes to playing the float with Mint issues. Once he gets 3 strikes, he's out..........and with his tactics, it shouldn't take long.
I knew it would happen.
I ordered 220 of the 2001 Buffalo Coin & Currency sets and had the order cut down to 20 (I did order some single coins and some 2 coin sets, so I did OK on those) but I didn't try to sell any of them until I had them. Why get 200 people mad at you when you can't deliver especially on a hot item?
Yep. Cancelled two of mine already. At least they are on the ball.
Box of 20
San Diego, CA
Box of 20
<< <i>This is a lost cause in my opinion. Try to buy from someone who has them in hand. It will give you less heartache. >>
Thank you
EOM
If collectors are smart .... They will hold 'em.
Remember the words of a famous numismatist a year or so ago ?
GO LONG ON GOLD
The OPERATIVE word is "TRY" to buy them from someone who has them "in hand".
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
Some of you will be disappointed, but...
I had several exchanges with the seller. In the end I explained to him that he took a risk and he owed me the coins at whatever cost and that I expected him to deliver. I also said that I would compromise and only require delivery of one of two coins. He actually replied back and said that he would begin efforts to procure the coin and fulfill the transaction for me. I was shocked, and pleased. He also explained that he was a small timer trying to make a quick dollar and he got in over his head. I believe him - I think that's pretty obvious.
I replied back and told him to forget the whole transaction, but I also told him that if I saw him selling these coins in the near future I would pursue every remedy available to me to go after him. In the end I was satisfied to see that he was allegedly willing to perform, but I couldn't bring myself to make him take such a huge loss on the deal. I trade a lot on Ebay, and I want good to keep my good Ebay karma going. I think he learned his lesson.
I'm going to bed , now
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
I think he has learned his lesson. I,personally, do not believe in presales. Bob
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>I ordered 220 of the 2001 Buffalo Coin & Currency sets and had the order cut down to 20 (I did order some single coins and some 2 coin sets, so I did OK on those) but I didn't try to sell any of them until I had them. Why get 200 people mad at you when you can't deliver especially on a hot item? >>
Same here. By the time I got my Buffalos, the price had cooled down some (20% or so) from the early presale levels. But I didn't have 50 people screaming their heads of and cussing me out the whole time, either. Presales are bad for two reasons: a) you might not get the coins, b) who knows how long it'll take to get the coins. It took three months before I received my Buffalos from the Mint. Imagine if I had done a presale the day they sold out--I would have had people screaming at me (rightfully so) for three months. It isn't worth that kind of hassle!
<< <i>I had a seller of an existing item renege on the deal.
He sent me a refund and claimed that he made a mistake in the listing.
He relisted the coin and got more bids the second time.
I wouldn't buy an item that the seller thinks he will have sometime.
My buddy has same problem with a seller now, picked up one low price, guy calims they cancelled his order, I told him it was BS, sure enough the guy then later sells a 2 4 piece sets BIN's , (completed) I told him the guy was a con and shoulda pulled his BIN listings if any of his orders were cancelled for singles...anyway, guy had same excuse with order numbers, probably grabbed one off of here....