I just discovered I have a 1914/3 Buffalo Nickel

NITTANYJGK · May 30, 2007 2:28AM

I've discovered that a MS63 1914-P Buffalo nickel that I've owned for 20 years is, what I strongly believe is the 1914/3 OVERDATE. I did not realize what I had until I recently read an article in Coin World and found out how faint the overdate can be. I looked at the coin a number of times in the past looking for a clear overdate..........I didn't realize how faint the overdate is. The top of "3" under the "4" is strong to the right of the "4", but is faint to the left of the "4".....but it is faintly there on the left. The coin also exhibits the key diagnostic horizontal lines (apparently from attempts by the mint to "rub out" the "3" on the die) over the "4" seen on all 1914/3-P overdates.

I want to have PCGS slab this coin. I'm wondering how "weak" the overdate has to be before they won't slab it as an overdate. I'M CONVINCED IT IS A BONA-FIDE 1914/3-P OVERDATE. Has anybody else had experience with this coin or have you seen any slabbed 1914/3-P overdates? Any info or advice would be appreciated.

lkrarecoins · May 30, 2007 2:29AM

You've got a picture???

BlindedByEgo · May 30, 2007 2:32AM

Welcome to the forums. There are several Buff experts who will no doubt be chiming in pretty quick.

NITTANYJGK · May 30, 2007 2:34AM

No, I don't. Sorry. I wouldn't know how to scan and attach a picture if I did!

Longacre · May 30, 2007 2:36AM

Welcome!

tradedollarnut · May 30, 2007 2:41AM

I looked at the coin a number of times in the past looking for a clear overdate..........I didn't realize how faint the overdate is

Precisely my problem with this 'overdate'. Anything that might be there or might not be there and requires imagination to perceive, just doesn't float my boat.

yellowjacket · May 30, 2007 2:58AM

I purchased a raw AU 1914 with a strong "crossbar" through the top of the 4. While PCGS slabbed it an AU 58, they said no to the overdate. The coin was cracked and sent to NGC. MS 62 they said, but "no" to an overdate. Cracked it again (I'm telling you the crossbar is solid!) and sent it to ANACS where it returned AU 55 and recognized as an overdate! Should I try for a PCGS crossover?

My advice is to send it in and hope for the best. Good luck!

Garrow

STONE · May 30, 2007 3:00AM

Welcome and I hope it's a great coin you have.

cladking · May 30, 2007 3:00AM

Welcome aboard.

A choice example is quite scarce.

ModernCrapNut · May 30, 2007 3:01AM

Welcome to the forum nittany.

NITTANYJGK · May 30, 2007 3:26AM

Yellowjacket: Does your 1914/3 show microscopic horizonal lines above the "4"? That's the key. If so, PCGS and NGC should have both slabbed it if the "crossbar" is a strong as you say it is. Did they (PCGS and NGC) ever give you a reason why they wouldn't????

ricko · May 30, 2007 3:58AM

Welcome to the boards... and good luck with your submission. Let us know how it transpires. Cheers, RickO

Shamika · May 30, 2007 3:58AM

Sure wish you had a photo.

I'm of the belief that this variety is far more common that their auction prices should justify. If your's is the variety, get it slabbed and sell it as soon as possible while prices are relatively high.

Wolf359 · May 30, 2007 4:03AM

<< I looked at the coin a number of times in the past looking for a clear overdate..........I didn't realize how faint the overdate is

Precisely my problem with this 'overdate'. Anything that might be there or might not be there and requires imagination to perceive, just doesn't float my boat. >>

That wasn't his question, good golly. Perhaps PCGS should create a random whiner forum for you and fifth-third.

koynekwest · May 30, 2007 4:25AM

Welcome!

As to your question-there are currently seven different overdate dies that have been identified-Dies 1, 2, 3, 6, 7, 8, and Die #9. Dies #4 and #5, previously listed as overdates, have been de-listed as the "overdate" on these has turned out to be a defect in the die. The reason for the large number of dies is that it was a working HUB, from which the working dies are made that received the improper hubbing and not a single working die as is usually the case for 20th century overdates, such as the 1918-D 8/7 Buffalo. Dies #1 and 2 are the strongest-Die # 6 is also pretty clear-but only Dies #1 and #2 will be identified as overdates by PCGS at the present time. The rest of the dies listed show a weak crossbar and are of little interest except to specialists in the series. I could possibly identify the one you have with a good quality photo, but MOST examples of Die #1 show evident machine doubling on the date. On dies #2 and #6, there is a strong E Pluribus Unum die clash below the chin-stronger on Die #6.

NITTANYJGK · May 30, 2007 4:37AM

Thank you, koynekwest!!!!!!!!!

Amazing how much you know about this overdate. My coin has some machine doubling on the date.

foundinrolls · May 30, 2007 4:41AM

<< I looked at the coin a number of times in the past looking for a clear overdate..........I didn't realize how faint the overdate is

Precisely my problem with this 'overdate'. Anything that might be there or might not be there and requires imagination to perceive, just doesn't float my boat. >>

I'm sure the thousands that the coin might be worth would pay for a lot of great lenses and maybe even a nice stereo microscope, leaving thousands left over for a nice vacation or a down payment on a summer cottage.

You might even be able to buy a boat to float if thousands of dollars in value floats your boat:-)

have Fun,
Bill

foundinrolls · May 30, 2007 4:44AM

A lot of these depends on whether or not a variety is an accepted one at the time of submission. I dont know if that was a factor with your coin but Slabbers wont go out on a limb with a variety designation unless a coin is very well documented as being a variety. As more and more varieties are being authenticated, more of them are being slabbed.

tahoe98 · May 30, 2007 5:37AM

and send that sucker in!

koynekwest · May 30, 2007 5:47AM

NITTANYJGK-

PM me at coinquest_sixtyone @ yahoo.com-I'll send you some photos of Die #1 and Die #2.

23Pairer · May 30, 2007 6:06AM

Get a picture with a macro lens, or ask someone to take it for you! It would be cool to see that bad boy.

koynekwest · May 30, 2007 6:38AM

as Chris says-this is not an overly rare variety when all three of the best dies are taken into account. If each die struck 200,000 coins the total mintage would be in the neighborhood of 600,000 coins. But-to find any of them in an early die state with a strong crossbar CAN be difficult. It IS a decent overdate in early die state-easily as good as the 1943/42 nickel.

roadrunner · May 30, 2007 6:45AM

Last year I briefly owned a top tier MS63 of this overdate. It was exceptionally colorful which is what lead me to buy it in the first place. I'd bet it was the best MS63+ in a holder. But after a little researching and help from forum members I decided it wasn't for me. I had to squint to see any sign of an overdate and felt sort of odd spending $6000 for the coin. Ironically I ran into the same coin a year later but at quite a bit more money. So there was interest in the variety.

ie......what TDN said.

roadrunner

leothelyon · May 30, 2007 8:07AM

<< I looked at the coin a number of times in the past looking for a clear overdate..........I didn't realize how faint the overdate is

Precisely my problem with this 'overdate'. Anything that might be there or might not be there and requires imagination to perceive, just doesn't float my boat. >>

If you look at anything long enough, it'll start to look real good come closing time!

There are some overdates and over MM's that are weak but interest collectors and there are some that do not. As I have heard a number of times and again from TDN and Roadrunner, alot of that stuff needs strong details unless there is some wide spread in that lettering or numbers that would strike a facination into anyone. I think you'll see the difference in a significant overdate once you have seen how strong the details are of the underlying number from pics of die 1 & 2. 1914/3
Buffalo Nickels
Cherrypicking

But koynekwest will have some better pics than what I could find.

Leo

fcloud · May 30, 2007 8:08AM

Welcome and congrats!

goldboy · May 30, 2007 8:40AM

<< Thank you, koynekwest!!!!!!!!! Amazing how much you know about this overdate >>

I agree! A very good explanation on topic ............................

koynekwest · May 30, 2007 8:52AM

Thanks!

Writersblock · May 31, 2007 2:46AM

<< As to your question-there are currently seven different overdate dies that have been identified-Dies 1, 2, 3, 6, 7, 8, and Die #9. >>

Are these just the P mint coins or does that list include the S mint as well? And has a D mint overdate shown up yet?

gyocomgd · May 31, 2007 2:51AM

<< I purchased a raw AU 1914 with a strong "crossbar" through the top of the 4. While PCGS slabbed it an AU 58, they said no to the overdate. The coin was cracked and sent to NGC. MS 62 they said, but "no" to an overdate. Cracked it again (I'm telling you the crossbar is solid!) and sent it to ANACS where it returned AU 55 and recognized as an overdate! Should I try for a PCGS crossover?

Garrow >>

Garrow, that sounds like a no-brainer to me! No way it would grade lower than the existing 55 if it got a 62 at NGC already, and PCGS pedigree would be a LOT more prestigious and increase the desirability of the coin. The sooner you send it in the better, I say.

Jcarney · May 31, 2007 3:08AM

<< and PCGS pedigree would be a LOT more prestigious and increase the desirability of the coin. >>

Seeing as how they got the overdate wrong, I find this statement hilarious. But I DO know what you mean.

gyocomgd · May 31, 2007 3:17AM

<< 

<< and PCGS pedigree would be a LOT more prestigious and increase the desirability of the coin. >>

Seeing as how they got the overdate wrong, I find this statement hilarious. But I DO know what you mean.

>>

You're assuming, of course, that ANACS got it right and PCGS got it wrong. Garrow obviously sent the coin to PCGS telling
them it was a 4/3, they just disagreed. It's not like it landed on their desks without their having a notion as to what to look for, I don't see
where they "got it wrong" in the classic sense. The variety designation on this obviously is a tough judgement call. With that, the fact ANACS already
has given it the 4/3 designation would tend to sway the judgment call on PCGS's part toward it being the overdate.
I believe human nature may come into play here.

oldcameoproofsguy · May 31, 2007 3:53AM

Just in case you all were wondering what one looks like.

I got all excited and had a good look at my 1914... but no cigar.

Here's one from heritage, an ms66.

I just discovered I have a 1914/3 Buffalo Nickel

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The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!

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