Have you noticed how many current eBay coin sellers...

291fifth · May 19, 2007 7:44AM

...fail to state a return policy or state that they don't accept returns of slabbed coins.

I wonder if this is indicative of another step downward in the quality of the sellers and their merchandise?

clarkbar04 · May 19, 2007 7:47AM

Well, if people wouldn't bid on their stuff, then they wouldn't be able to get away with it.

I returned a coin that was cleaned and retoned, and was not advertised as cleaned. He told me he was only going to return the purchase price. I said, of course. Then after I seemed to not care, he said he was also going to deduct ebay fees. I told him that seemed unethical but I didn't want a cleaned coin.

Bear · May 19, 2007 7:52AM

The solution for me is simple, no return policy,

I no buy.

storm888 · May 19, 2007 8:01AM

When I sell graded items on EBAY, I state "no refunds/returns."

If a return is requested, I accept it and block the buyer. 8-years+,
and only two or three returns.

If I sold raw coins, I would allow returns. I do not sell raw coins.

It is really not cost effective to run an approval service on EBAY.

RBinTex · May 19, 2007 8:08AM

Not allowing a return = a lowlife seller.

Bochiman · May 19, 2007 8:09AM

<< ...fail to state a return policy or state that they don't accept returns of slabbed coins.

I wonder if this is indicative of another step downward in the quality of the sellers and their merchandise? >>

Maybe it is also indicative of buyers who like to "kick the tires" or buy something, shop it around for a profit, then return it if they can't get what they want from it?
I think it is all of the above

bigtonydallas · May 19, 2007 8:20AM

I dont have a return policy as I have clear pictures and dont want to run an approval service either. If I wanted to do that I'd open a shop and go to coin shows. I have only had one coin returned and he said he did not read carefully as it was an Pr69 Lincoln in an ANACS holder. I stated I did not think it was an 69 nut closer to a 66 or 67. I still gave him a refund even when I did not have to. I believe you treat people faily most of the time they will treat you fairly. One other thing is I don't overgrade coins.

Bochiman · May 19, 2007 8:30AM

btw....I generally carry a return policy in my auctions, but with unopened sets, etc, I set it pretty tight, or have been known not to post one on a few occassions (I don't want speculators who try to flip before a return policy expires...or who opens something then tries to return it).

I've only had 1 "return" and that was when I got bad vibes from a winner and their attempted "non-confirmed" paypal attempt....they got upset, bid on the same item from someone else, got it a couple dollars, literally, cheaper, and demanded a refund. I was happy to give it. No item shipped, lost a few cents for the listing, and got more for selling the item anyway

So, many people may not LIST a return policy but may accept them when reasonable....always pays to ASK before bidding....

fc · May 19, 2007 8:32AM

291fifth,

in that half eagle category on ebay all i see and hear is barking dogs.

Frankcoins · May 19, 2007 8:34AM

I offer a return policy on everything, but it's very common for no returns to be accepted on certified coins from the big auction houses. Auctions are not approval services.

tjkillian · May 19, 2007 8:41AM

You can not really know what a coin looks like until you see it in your own lighting conditions. Therefore I always have a full return policy. I have yet to have a coin returned. I really don't believe when folks say "It is an auction, not an approval service". Most folks will not return a coin, even if they really should return it. I have returned several coins, all because they were cleaned and not stated in the auction that they were cleaned and did not look clean in their pictures. You will get higher bids if you offer a unconditional return policy. You will get fewer returns if you have good, clear, large pictures and fully disclose the "features" of a coin. When I put a coin on eBay, I want to get rid of it and have it not returned.

atom48coin · May 19, 2007 8:47AM

with Storm888. It's too much hassle and expense to deal with people looking for coins to upgrade. I sell primarily PCGS (or an occasional NGC) graded coins that in many cases have been part of my own collections, and/or some mint products. I describe as accurately as possible. That's part of the reason for TPG's in the first place.

Pandavab · May 19, 2007 9:21AM

I always offer returns on my graded coins. I get less than 1% of my auctions returned, and the ones that have been returned have, every single time, sold for more than it originally did. They typically sell for 20-40% more than the original bid. I have no clue why that seems to happen. Maybe people saw mine up the first time and lost out, and then the second time around they don't want to risk losing it again? Either way I have no problem offer returns. It very rarely happens, and it makes for happier customers. While I like making money on my auctions (obviously), I also enjoy having people walk away from my auctions happy. I hate getting stuck with a coin I'm not happy with and I don't like sticking someone with a coin they aren't happy with. I also figure that in the long run I probably end up making more money anyhow from return customers.

sweetwilliet · May 19, 2007 9:30AM

So, many people may not LIST a return policy but may accept them when reasonable....always pays to ASK before bidding....

Exactly. I have no return policy stated in my auctions (I sell very few), so I don't have to accept returns if I don't want to, but would accept them to make someone happy as long as they were polite. The thing I try to avoid is someone trying to flip for a quick profit and then have buyer's remorse only when they realize that the coin they got isn't the ultra-pq definite upgrade they hoped for (I never state a coin is a definite upgrade in any auction). It's easier on the BST, no fees, etc... if someone is unhappy, no problems there with a refund. I tend to think people here are more reasonable and ethical than on ebay.

Kaelasdad · May 19, 2007 9:31AM

My return policy is to allow exchanges if the coin(s) received are not exactly as described. I have only had two refunds ever requested, and they were granted (same buyer, now blocked). I sell mostly modern, PCGS graded items, and I try to make it very clear that you will receive exactly the coin described. I suppose if you didnt like my policy, you could ask me to consider something else, but I agree, Ebay is too expensive to run an approval agency. I have provided that service to board members.

I think

<< Not allowing a return = a lowlife seller. >>

Ouch. I dont think I would post an opinion like that. Too all inclusive, but not based on any particular fact other than unsubstantiated reasoning. I like to only throw out opinions like that after i have solid evidence, and usually pertaining only to the subject that fit the description.

mozin · May 19, 2007 9:37AM

I have no problem with ebay sellers who do not offer satisfaction guarantees on encapsulated coins. I simply lower my bids by about 20%.

DoubleEagle59 · May 19, 2007 9:39AM

I believe as a seller on Ebay, if you are ethical and upfront with your descriptions, provide good pictures of both sides of the coin, state that you can send larger scans of the coin via email, then I totally agree with NO returns for slabbed material. Raw coins, yes...there should be a return policy.
As stated earlier, you can't run an approval service on Ebay.

SUMORADA · May 19, 2007 9:40AM

what he said.....................(storm888)

roadrunner · May 19, 2007 9:41AM

I have to think there are people looking for scores on PQ coins hoping to score an upgrade. They bid strong over the holdered grade. When they get it home and realize it's not gonna work, they send it back to the seller. They are only out postage in most cases.
If I were a seller I'd be unhappy with someone doing this. And if the coin doesn't quite measure up....then keep it. Better luck next time out.

roadrunner

DoubleEagle59 · May 19, 2007 9:43AM

I just wanted to add something....on any slabbed coin, if you really wanted to be critical, you could probably pick out one (or two) aspects of the coin that shouldn't be there for the assigned grade or perhaps there is a spot or slight mark etc.... that makes you slightly unhappy. When you purchase a coin, you must understand this!
When buying for example, an ms64, you can't expect to get an ms64.9!!

DoubleEagle59 · May 19, 2007 9:44AM

roadrunner.....Exactly!!!!

twodrhrdtp · May 19, 2007 9:51AM

Isnt this the reason they came up with the whole TPG anyway. to buy a coin sight unseen? I have a return policy on my Ebay slabbed coin auctions saying that if I didnt represent the coin properly I will accept a return. I agree with previous posters about people looking for the PQ for the grade coins. We are dealing with Ebay where the coins sell at a discount usually for reason.

291fifth · May 19, 2007 9:54AM

<< Isnt this the reason they came up with the whole TPG anyway. to buy a coin sight unseen? I have a return policy on my Ebay slabbed coin auctions saying that if I didnt represent the coin properly I will accept a return. I agree with previous posters about people looking for the PQ for the grade coins. We are dealing with Ebay where the coins sell at a discount usually for reason. >>

The concept of buying sight unseen slabs is dead, dead, dead.

The responses to this post have really amazed me...and not in a positive way.

DoubleEagle59 · May 19, 2007 9:56AM

I may get some flak for this, but I think that most people saying sellers should return any/all slabbed coins are the ones that have only made purchases on Ebay and have never sold on Ebay.

ARCO · May 19, 2007 10:11AM

Sellers have their reasons. I personally, would never resort to that strategy, but I can understand why a seller would. I don't think any of us can judge or demand that a seller offer return privileges or not, but we can elect where and with whom we do business. The market is what it is and we have to find sellers with our own sense of equity and fair play.

Tyler

DoubleEagle59 · May 19, 2007 10:14AM

Very well said ARCO.

What I believe is important is that BOTH sellers and buyers have some degree of protection with their Ebay transaction.

notwilight · May 19, 2007 10:19AM

I accept returns if not accurately described. I provide high resolution photos of any unique coin I sell. I've had a couple of coins returned because they had spots or other problems that the buyer didn't like. I replaced them and we were both happy.

I do NOT sell coins on approval thru Ebay. If you want to have coins sent to you on approval, contact me and we will talk about the arrangements and I'd be glad to send them to you. However, don't go to ebay and anonymously buy them expecting to return them. And BTW, my return policy is clearly spelled out.

Bear, There are some good sellers on Ebay and I hope you'll give us another chance. I'm pretty sure I sold you a coin or two long ago and you were happy.

--Jerry

Myqqy · May 19, 2007 10:25AM

I think that a lot of sellers get tired of tire-kickers, and don't want to be an approval service- and I don't think that makes them scumbags. I will occasionally still bid on an item with no stated return policy if everything else looks good, but I will drop my bid amount to a degree..

rec78 · May 19, 2007 10:31AM

There are many reasons for a no- return policy. Believe it or not, there are actually some genuine estate coins that must be sold to settle estates. Also when a state treasurer sells coins for the state the sale is final. A state is not in the coin business and only sells them when they confiscate them for some reason. They do not care if a $1000.00 coin sells for $100.00 or $3000.00, they just want to sell it to get it off the state treasury property list. Same way when a bank sells the contents of a safe deposit box.
Of course there are the scammers out there with no return policies because they know damn well the coins they are selling are not legit. Again we must read between the lines and determine which ones are legit and which ones are not.

pf70collector · May 19, 2007 10:31AM

3 day return policy same as cash back for all my slabbed coins. Not one return, crossing my fingers. Though I will block if someone posts here about an ebayer who has a habit of returning slabbed moderns who takes advantage of the rapid price swings that can occur.

lsica · May 19, 2007 10:53AM

IMHO....

If you just sell on eBay occasionally, then whether or not you have a return policy probably doesn't matter.

But if you have, or are trying to grow an "eBay Business", be it part or full time, a return policy for slabbed and raw coins is just Good Customer Service. A pain in the butt? Yup. A potential for some loss sometimes? Sure, in the short term. But as others have said here, a No-Return-Policy may keep some people from bidding. and others from bidding more. So that can cause losses too. And I tend to believe (and my limited experience seems to show) if your descriptions are honest, accurate, and clear, the percentage of people who actually return coins is pretty small. I'd actually be more nervous accepting a return on a raw coin. More potential for a buyer to mishandle a coin (or even swap it) before returning it.

TwoSides2aCoin · May 19, 2007 11:10AM

No, I didn't notice.

I just get what I want and move on.

PerryHall · May 19, 2007 6:11PM

<< The responses to this post have really amazed me...and not in a positive way. >>

291fifth---Care to elaborate?

walkerman · May 19, 2007 9:16PM

I have been buying and selling on ebay for over 7 yrs. After several costly disappointments I decided it was foolhardy to try to grade a coin accurately from a picture no matter how professional the image.
I therefore never, ever bid on coins where the seller has a no return policy.
Though he may himself be an honest seller who provides accurate photos and accurate descriptions he has lumped himself with the unsavory characters who photoshop their pictures of the lowest possible quality coin for the grade, misrepresent the coin and are happy to be rid of it forever.
I certainly don't want to be responsible for trying to separate the good from the bad.
I offer a full return policy so the buyer can be confident that regardless of what I think of a coin they will not be stuck with a product they are just not happy with.
I try to purchase only coins of such quality that when I sell it, the chances of a return are greatly diminished.
There will always be those who disagree with my concept of eye appeal etc. But they have turned out to be the exception rater than the rule as evidenced by my 100% feedback record.
The returns have been so few they have had minimal impact on my bottom line.
Only once did I suspect I was being played by someone who was looking for upgrades.
I finally blocked him after returning several payments and received my only neutral.
If a buyer deals with a "no return" seller he is gambling that the seller is everything he promises to be.
There are too many unreliable sellers on ebay to take that chance. Dave W

The priceless ingredient in any coin transaction is the integrity of the dealer.
David J Weygant Rare Coins website: www.djwcoin.com

ebaytrader · May 19, 2007 9:29PM

<< ...fail to state a return policy or state that they don't accept returns of slabbed coins.

I wonder if this is indicative of another step downward in the quality of the sellers and their merchandise? >>

Maybe they're emulating ALL of the major auction houses. NONE of which accept returns of slabbed coins in their featured auctions and yet many of those that won't bid in 'no return' eBay auctions gleefully bid in those very same auctions.

So the questions is: Why are eBay sellers held to a different standard, or viewed differently, than the auction houses?

lsica · May 19, 2007 11:14PM

<< I may get some flak for this, but I think that most people saying sellers should return any/all slabbed coins are the ones that have only made purchases on Ebay and have never sold on Ebay. >>

You should actually look before making a statement like that

There are several sellers on eBay who sell more than you and I could ever hope to that have a return policy for slabbed coins.

AUandAG · May 19, 2007 11:27PM

<< When I sell graded items on EBAY, I state "no refunds/returns."

If a return is requested, I accept it and block the buyer. 8-years+,
and only two or three returns.

If I sold raw coins, I would allow returns. I do not sell raw coins.

It is really not cost effective to run an approval service on EBAY. >>

I agree with no returns on professionally slabbed coins, but I do sell raw and allow a 100%
return, including ship/hand and have had less than a handfull, in 1300 auctions. I do describe
accurately if there are problems. I buy raw off ebay and have been very happy in doing so
but have sent some back too.
bob

BobaFett72 · May 19, 2007 11:32PM

If I sold slabbed coins, there would be NO RETURNS. It is not an approval service. I dont sell slabbed stuff though, so I do offer one. In eight years on Ebay I have had one returned item. Im I'm selling slabbed and graded stuff, you know exactly what your getting, the grade is not in dispute and I provide large, detailed pics. It would def. be a different story.

hubird · May 19, 2007 11:53PM

I rarely sell on eBay, but when I do I offer some type of return policy most of the time. I believe wording the policy is important and can actually reinforce one's sales strategy.

I bought a FBL Franklin once from a regular/prominent eBay seller. Their pictures showed a nice coin. Unfortunately, even though they had a nice clean reverse shown in about 4 or 5 pictures, when I got it the coin had a 1/4" dia. black spot right in the middle of the bell. Needless to say, it certainly appeared the original auction photos had been doctored. The dealer claimed it had been in inventory so long that the coin must have "toned" while in storage.

Yeah, right. I'm sorry, but black spots ain't tone.

I broke out the mirror and digital camera and took pictures of the coin which showed both obverse (& PCGS label) as well as the reverse and the spot. The dealer couldn't squabble much about the condition after that. They accepted a full return when I vowed to expose their misrepresentation of the auction item. I didn't care whether their faux pas was intentional or not.

Anybody else have experiences like this?

btw, beware of Crossf*** Sales auction photos...

lsica · May 20, 2007 12:03AM

I just don't get you people. You take returns on raw coins, which you say happens rarely anyway, yet you won't take returns on slabbed coins, which I would think would happen even less frequently, and has less of a risk for a buyer damaging or swapping a coin.

hubird · May 20, 2007 12:15AM

This was advertised and photographed to be a clean coin by a regular eBay seller. Would you return it? I did.

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hubird · May 20, 2007 12:16AM

pos...@#$%!

hubird · May 20, 2007 12:16AM

agentjim007 · May 20, 2007 12:39AM

No returns on slabs unless I made a mistake. I agree with most reasons stated. Not approval, no returns because you didn't get an undergraded coin, buyers remorse and it may be minor to most but seller has to eat listing fee (most times over 5 bucks). I don't see how these guys offer returns on featured items and have to eat $20.00+. I do offer returns (and paypal) on BST because I feel like I deal with more knowledgeable (and honest) collector.

lsica · May 20, 2007 12:42AM

Hubird -- Did the seller of the Frankie normally accept returns on slabbed coins? I can't tell from your post.

walkerman · May 20, 2007 12:52AM

<< If I sold slabbed coins, there would be NO RETURNS. It is not an approval service. I dont sell slabbed stuff though, so I do offer one. In eight years on Ebay I have had one returned item. Im I'm selling slabbed and graded stuff, you know exactly what your getting, the grade is not in dispute and I provide large, detailed pics. It would def. be a different story. >>

When you say the grade is not in dispute does that mean there is no such thing as an overgraded coin?
If that is what you mean then you really are off the mark.
I received a coin once that I bought from a beautiful photoshopped image.
It was so bad that the grading co.(one of the top two) agreed to buy it back It was graded MS 63 but would actually grade a very low end ms 6o. It looked like it had been through a meat grinder.
That was the last "no return"seller I have bought from.
To say a grade is not in dispute just because it has been slabbed by one of the top grading companies is just not acknowleging reality.There is a slew of overgraded coins floating around the marketplace as we speak.
All it takes is a little art work with photoshop to make them look like high end examples.
The greatest photos will still not show minute hairlines or haze that will definitely alter the eye appeal and the marketability.
To buy from a photo is still buying sight unseen in my opinion.
I think it's wrong that the auction houses have a no return policy but they are too powerful to buck so it's best to view the coin in hand or have a trusted agent do it for you. Especially when big bucks are involved.
I frankly think a buyer is looking for big trouble when he buys an expensive coin from anyone including me when there is no return offered. Dave W

The priceless ingredient in any coin transaction is the integrity of the dealer.
David J Weygant Rare Coins www.djwcoin.com

hubird · May 20, 2007 12:52AM

Isica, I can't remember for sure, but I'm thankful they did. That entire situation I described is just to show how some situations have to be handled. Delicately and honestly...

You've brought up a good topic, thanks.

MORGANHUNTER2 · May 20, 2007 1:10AM

my wife sells on Ebay, and I occasionally do as well.
Always a return- no matter what it is.
I have sold raw and slabbed in the past- and NEVER had a return- neither for the wife.

Tell it like it is, show it for what it is worth- good pics if possible- and let the buyer decide- if not happy- then please do not bid- if you like it and it fits your need- then Thank You for winning the auction-.
I state specifically that any returns must be within 7 days and must not have been tampered with in any fashion. So far so good.- all transactions have been spiffy.

now when I am a buyer- sad to say there are some sellers out there that SUCK big time.
if I pay you within 24 hours of auction ending like most of you ask via paypal- then i would expect you to have shipped item within 3 days- no matter what- this is business.
If you tell me an item is on 'backorder'- then you should not have a listing for it- this is business 101- I did not go to Sears or Penneys to wait a week or 2 for an item- that is why you are selling it on EBAY!!

anyway- that is my rant for the day.

happy Sunday all!!!

lsica · May 20, 2007 1:12AM

<< it may be minor to most but seller has to eat listing fee >>

Lets look at some evidence:

Based on what people are saying on their experiences here (even those that don't take returns on slabbed coins), and based on the positive feedback I see on items with obviously deceptive photos, I'd say returns of coins on eBay are rare. I'd venture to say even more rare where the coins are accurately and honestly described.

I'd also say (based on the poll I started here) that several buyers will either walk away from or will not bid strongly on a coin with no return policy.

So that money you think you're not losing by avoiding duplicate listing fees may be more than offset by lost bids.

But, hey, you all do what you want. The more people who go past your auctions, the more potential bidders on mine.

cmerlo1 · May 20, 2007 1:30AM

I'm kind of torn on the issue.

I used to not accept returns on certified coins for the reason already stated- it has nothing to do with buying sight-unseen, but if I'm paying a reputable TPG to grade the coins I'm selling then I (and, more importantly, the bidder) should be able to trust their opinion. If I can't, and the bidder can't, then there is no need for TPG's. If I accurately describe these coins and provide excellent photos in my auction, then there should be no reason for someone to return a coin, since they know exactly what they are buying.

But...

I also realize that not accepting returns has a negative stigma about it, which could affect sales (the poll says it all!) and my reputation, which is why I decided to start accepting certified coin returns. Should I ever have to refund someone's money (and I haven't had to yet after 8 years on eBay), I will write it off as the cost of doing business and a lesson learned.

--Christian

lsica · May 20, 2007 1:44AM

<< If I accurately describe these coins and provide excellent photos in my auction, then there should be no reason for someone to return a coin >>

Which is exactly why a 'good' seller (IMHO) accepts returns. They know they'll be rare enough to be more than offset by better or increased sales. But if you think your own stuff might have a higher return rate, you might not be able to offset that loss.

Have you noticed how many current eBay coin sellers...

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