What happened to my post? Poofed

Rob85635 · May 10, 2007 5:01AM

My post about grading concerns that Myself, Zoins and a few others were commenting on has been deleted. I cannot find it. Why would it go poof? Hitting to close to home with someone in charge? It was a legitimate discussion.

BlackBeard · May 10, 2007 5:10AM

See thread Poof. It has since morphed into that one.

Russ · May 10, 2007 5:17AM

Are you sure it vanished? Perhaps we should get Mulder and Scully on this.

Russ, NCNE

Zoins · May 10, 2007 5:17AM

I don't recall any such thread

ziggy29 · May 10, 2007 5:18AM

I'd tell you, but then I'd have to bam you.

StrikeOutXXX · May 10, 2007 5:18AM

<< Are you sure it vanished? Perhaps we should get Mulder and Scully on this.

Russ, NCNE >>

LOL, hey Russ, just noticed one more for 56k!! Congrats

ricko · May 10, 2007 5:18AM

Even the POOF thread went POOF!!! Wow... Cheers, RickO

Connecticoin · May 10, 2007 5:25AM

The thread had (unproven) allegations of intentional grading / bodybagging inconsistency. I can understand why they yanked it, but an explanation from the mods would have been nice.

Rob85635 · May 10, 2007 5:57AM

I mentioned nothing about bodybagging, I made a comment on two nickels that I thought were graded to high. A discussion ensued where I asked why it seems some coin series/pedigrees, etc get what seems to me to be higher than they should grades.

Basically I was asking why grading is not done based on the coin. It seems to me the TPGs are inconsistent and that is the crux of what I was getting at. I did link a picture of Kyle from Southpark with "shenanigans" ... maybe I am not allowed to link the picture? I find that hard to believe considering a lot of the sigs and other pics I see here.

dan8402 · May 10, 2007 5:59AM

<< I mentioned nothing about bodybagging, I made a comment on two nickels that I thought were graded to high. A discussion ensued where I asked why it seems some coin series/pedigrees, etc get what seems to me to be higher than they should grades.

Basically I was asking why grading is not done based on the coin. It seems to me the TPGs are inconsistent and that is the crux of what I was getting at. I did link a picture of Kyle from Southpark with "shenanigans" ... maybe I am not allowed to link the picture? I find that hard to believe considering a lot of the sigs and other pics I see here. >>

Read what you said, and then you should understand why it went poof.

Russ · May 10, 2007 6:01AM

<< It seems to me the TPGs are inconsistent and that is the crux of what I was getting at. >>

They are inconsistent and, frankly, this isn't news. Everybody knows that. The problem with that thread was that some members decided to accuse them of being deliberately inconsistent simply to generate revenue.

Russ, NCNE

Rob85635 · May 10, 2007 6:02AM

<< Read what you said, and then you should understand why it went poof. >>

You are kidding right? I can search this forum and link all kinds of posts about questionably graded coins. Heck, the forums are full of people yelling at each other, being disrespectful, etc. I was trying to understand something that I don't understand. I was not rude to anyone and most of what I said was related to what I have learned from other posts here.

shylock · May 10, 2007 6:07AM

Get use to it.

I've had many threads "poofed", and some that had selected responses "poofed".

No big deal, until you get "poofed"

Rob85635 · May 10, 2007 6:12AM

<< They are inconsistent and, frankly, this isn't news. Everybody knows that. The problem with that thread was that some members decided to accuse them of being deliberately inconsistent simply to generate revenue. >>

I can say I made no such allegation except toward SGS

If that is why it was poofed, ok. I don't make the rules, I am just bummed because I thought some of the responses were good and I thought we had a good discussion going. No biggie. Poof is ok I guess, ... I guess I should change the title of this thread to "I been poofed finally". Never happened to me before. hehe

Russ · May 10, 2007 6:14AM

<< I am just bummed because I thought some of the responses were good and I thought we had a good discussion going. >>

Some of the discussion was excellent. The problem with these threads, though, is that there are members who can't figure out the difference between rational discourse and baseless accusation.

Russ, NCNE

fastrudy · May 10, 2007 6:17AM

Barry · May 10, 2007 6:19AM

<< They are inconsistent and, frankly, this isn't news. Everybody knows that. The problem with that thread was that some members decided to accuse them of being deliberately inconsistent simply to generate revenue.

Russ, NCNE >>

If not deliberate, there are only two other options:
1. A grading system that does not lend itself to consistency
or
2. Incompetance

We know it's not incompetance, sooo...

Why are there so many people willing to pay multiples for 1 point?

Russ · May 10, 2007 6:21AM

<< If not deliberate, there are only two other options:
1. A grading system that does not lend itself to consistency
or
2. Incompetance >>

Actually, there is a third option that is likely the cause. Changes in graders. Grading is subjective and each of us may view a coin differently. Over the years the grading staff at the services has changed many times. Thus, it makes perfect sense that we will see inconsistency.

Russ, NCNE

Rob85635 · May 10, 2007 6:22AM

<< Some of the discussion was excellent. The problem with these threads, though, is that there are members who can't figure out the difference between rational discourse and baseless accusation. >>

Well if that is the case then I will have to learn to watch what I say more closely. I am not sure if you are referring to me or others but if you are I respectfully apologize if I said something I should not have. And Russ, and anyone else for that matter, feel free to keep me on the straight and narrow when it comes to this forum. I love it here and learn so much I don't wanna mess a good thing up by causing discourse. If I say something wrong call me on it and I will do my best not to make the same mistake.

I belong to a few forums about differing topics of interest to me. I have seen some forums denegrate to hateful speech, cussing, bad mouthing someone for an opinion, etc. I am glad this forum is not like that.

storm888 · May 10, 2007 6:23AM

"Basically I was asking why grading is not done based on the coin."

///////////////////////////////////////////////

Grading IS done "based on the coin."

Different graders have different opinions; simple as that.

Zoins · May 10, 2007 6:27AM

<< I have seen some forums denegrate to hateful speech, cussing, bad mouthing someone for an opinion, etc. I am glad this forum is not like that. >>

You don't see that because of thread poofing

eyoung429 · May 10, 2007 7:08AM

<< The thread had (unproven) allegations of intentional grading / bodybagging inconsistency. I can understand why they yanked it, but an explanation from the mods would have been nice. >>

The explanation was in the thread that went:

roadrunner · May 10, 2007 9:49AM

In the early days a number of PCGS dealers served at the grading services for a few weeks a year...or something like that. The quality of graders doing classics was far better imo. Most of those guys could grade the entire spectrum...and moderns played no real role yet. Today's graders are heavily skewed towards moderns. The few that do classics might have one speciality like "gold" for example.
I just don't think the horses are out there today to ensure the best grading possible for our dollars.

roadrunner

BlackBeard · May 10, 2007 10:06AM

It very well could have been my post as it was very near the end and may have been the last post. I checked back about 2 minutes after posting and thread gone. While it wasn't meant to be inflamitory, it may have come off as harsh against the service. Only stating some thoughts on a submission a while back and it seemed on topic with the thread. Sorry if it was me guys.

Bear · May 10, 2007 10:07AM

"The truth is out there Skully".

SeaEagleCoins · May 10, 2007 10:42AM

<< It very well could have been my post as it was very near the end and may have been the last post. I checked back about 2 minutes after posting and thread gone. While it wasn't meant to be inflamitory, it may have come off as harsh against the service. Only stating some thoughts on a submission a while back and it seemed on topic with the thread. Sorry if it was me guys. >>

...perhaps...it might have also been me...I posted a "paste" from another posting I entered on another thread... onto each of todays nuked threads... right before they were nuked.

...yet the original thread still remains...on pg.3 by now..."Grade in. A nice gain out of left field."...

I guess this is sort of a test...will that thread be nuked now?

...actually...in regards to this 'testy' topic re: TPGs...I think Bear has put it best in his recent thread about "The Royal Grading Room" or something like that...he has a wonderfully wise and playful way of getting a message across...

TwoSides2aCoin · May 10, 2007 11:26AM

Ebay gave me Poof Power when I signed up with PayPow™ !
But I was never a power screwer

What would this grade at PCGS, NGC, PCI, ANACS, ICG, SGS, NNC ?
Do you think it would bodybag for AT ?
What do you think a coin like this is worth ?
Honest, open dialogue please.

There is so much animosity when people lose money or get ripped in the coin business
... and that is the crux of the problem.

SeaEagleCoins · May 10, 2007 11:39AM

<< What would this grade at PCGS, NGC, PCI, ANACS, ICG, SGS, NNC ?
Do you think it would bodybag for AT ?
What do you think a coin like this is worth ?
Honest, open dialogue please.

There is so much animosity when people lose money or get ripped in the coin business
... and that is the crux of the problem. >>

...don't really want to offer an opinion on what any TPGs' opinion might be...

...if the coin looks, in hand, anything like the pic...based on the wear...I'd call it a 53/55...can't see much sign of luster in the pic...that would play a big role in how I'd value the coin...

...also, I'm too tired to pull out the books so I don't know the variety...that, of course, also is part of the valuation process...

...I would have no desire to have this coin slabbed...I like busts more when they're nekkid...

tahoe98 · May 11, 2007 5:55AM

you forgot to enable your anti-poofer!

ziggy29 · May 11, 2007 6:27AM

<< It very well could have been my post as it was very near the end and may have been the last post. I checked back about 2 minutes after posting and thread gone. While it wasn't meant to be inflamitory, it may have come off as harsh against the service. Only stating some thoughts on a submission a while back and it seemed on topic with the thread. Sorry if it was me guys. >>

I said a few things about resubmissions being a potential profit center, but I merely pointed out the potential conflict of interest. I have no idea whether any inconsistencies *are* intentional or not, but the bottom line is that inconsistency is good for business.

Zoins · May 11, 2007 6:47AM

Threads that speculate about business practices may be better suited for this forum.

shylock · May 15, 2007 8:03AM

Threads that speculate about business practices may be better suited for this forum.

Oh please, give me a break.

al410 · May 15, 2007 8:17AM

This forum is owned and operated by PCGS, what is so hard to understand about that? I for one trust PCGS more then other TPG's. To think anyone can come in some one's house and bad mouth them is stupid. This forum is not supposed to be about that, it is for talking coins, there is a place for those discussions, just not here. I really enjoy the coin topics and also seeing all of the different coins, but argueing over a grade? It is obviously subjective, I actually understand them poofing threads with accusations or even a hint of one. It is there house!
Lets use the forum for what it is, I don't think it was ever intended to be a "town hall forum" on the TPG's or a place to air those kinda thoughts when most of the time it is obvious there is an agenda. I appreciate the real coin people on here sharing there coins and knowledge. please keep it up.
AL

jmski52 · May 15, 2007 10:17AM

I'm not a dealer or a crackout specialist, but I can only imagine that as the prices get higher and the stakes get larger, there is bound to be more and more disappointment on the part of both buyers and sellers, regardless of who offers the grading opinion. If it's a high stakes game, someone's toes are going to get stepped on.

The pressure will always be for TPGs to inflate grades or to risk losing sales volume. That's not an inherent problem with the concept of TPGs, but more so a problem with the submitters who may be looking for a freebie, be they collectors or dealers.

So now it's come full circle. Numerical grading was supposed to solve the problem. Then TPGs were supposed to solve the problem and to allow more liquidity in the coin market via sight-unseen transactions.

The conflict of interest between buyer and seller cannot be solved by anything other than negotiation. When there is significant money involved, it's really up to you, not the TPG.

What happened to my post? Poofed

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