You purchase a coin from an online auction and you assume the coin is raw
Scavenger
Posts: 987
The auction mentions nothing about the coin being graded by a third party. You're thinking that it's an AU58 or possibly MS60 by the pictures. You win the auction and when the coin arrives, it's in a PCGS XF45 holder. When you contact the seller he says that he didnt agree with the grade either but left it in the holder for protection. And that is also why he didnt disclose the PCGS holder or grade in the auction listing. Would you be disappointed?
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Comments
would you have rather the person sent the coin to you raw
and you would be oblivious to the fact your grading from
pictures really needs a lot of work ;-)
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
This didnt happen to me, just wanted to see the response. Personally, I wouldnt care what the holder said as long as I liked the appearance of the coin.
<< <i>What if somebody cracks and resubmits a coin half a dozen times, and finally gets an upgrade- would it be unethical to omit that information? >>
I think it's now generally assumed by knowledgeable collectors and dealers alike that coins are often resubmitted until they achieve the best grade that could be reasonably given that coin, so I don't think it's necessary to volunteer what's already presumed to happen to many coins (just like it's not necessary to state that most blast white 1800's silver coins have been dipped at one time or another). That having been said, if a potential buyer *asks* if the seller has previously submitted a particular coin to a TPG, then the seller has an obligation to reply truthfully.
<< <i>I think it's now generally assumed by knowledgeable collectors and dealers alike that coins are often resubmitted until they achieve the best grade that could be reasonably given that coin, so I don't think it's necessary to volunteer what's already presumed to happen to many coins... >>
Fair enough.
Suppose, instead of not disclosing that the coin is in a "MSwhatever" holder when it's put up for sale, it is cracked out of that holder first, before being put up for sale. Any disclosure issues there?
BTW- I'm not trying to pick on anybody here. I really *am* curious about what sort of facts people (in general) consider to be relevant as far as disclosure goes. Is that a sufficient disclaimer?
<< <i>Coins in a TPG slab should have the company and grade disclosed in the auction or advertisement. To omit known relevant information is unethical. >>
How is the fact that it happens to be in a TPG holder (ANY holder) relevent? The seller is selling a coin not an opinion in this case. It is no more necessary to mention that a coin is in a holder than it would be to mention that a coin is raw.
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The seller is selling a coin not an opinion in this case. >>
I must disagree.
By selling the coin in the slab, the seller is selling both a coin and an opinion. His coin, and the TPGs opinion. If he wishes to sell just the coin (or the coin with only the seller's opinion), he could always crack it out."
I know that some people buy raw coins for their Dansco, etc, and in that context might specifically avoid a slab, because it is so hard to remove from the slab.
I understand that many of you are keen on cracking slabs, and that's fine, but I also know that I'm not the only one who is terrified of damaging the coin.
For this reason, and the others stated, I think that a slab, any slab, should be disclosed.
Rex
Sorry to comment on something mentioned here that's a bit off-topic, but I wonder: when did it start, this fascination with cracking open and resubmitting a coin over and over again until you get the grade you want? Do people really do this, and to what extent? I'm sure PCGS (or whoever) is laughing all the way to the bank, but is it really worth it to the collector? And what does is say about the TPG? If you really question the validity of what they're doing, why do you send your coins to them? My 2c.
Joe G.
Great BST purchases completed with commoncents123, p8nt, blu62vette and Stuart. Great coin swaps completed with rah1959, eyoung429 and Zug. Top-notch consignment experience with Russ.
<< <i>I must disagree.
By selling the coin in the slab, the seller is selling both a coin and an opinion. His coin, and the TPGs opinion. >>
I think he is selling the coin and HIS opinion. The buyer gets both of those and absolutely free, a nice protective holder and someone else's opinion as well.
In this case you just got a better holder than you were expecting.
Resubmit it if you like, or crack it out and put it in the Dansco. Either way, you got EXACTLY what you paid for... and a free slab to boot.
IN FACT - you can send in that label for 50c, IIRC.
I don't believe the buyer should feel unhappy with his purchase, assuming the coin looks like the pictures. He has the added benefit of knowing that PCGS accepted the coin for grading, while about 95% of the raw Busties on ebay would not be acceptable to PCGS..