Any possibility for a high relief gold eagle to mark the 100th Anniversary of the St. Gaudens?

GUINZO1975 · April 23, 2007 11:29AM

I think it would be great for the US Mint to issue a high relief Gold Eagle to mark the 100th Anniversary of the St. Gaudens Double Eagle. Since the coin's desing would not change, the mint wouldn't need approval from congress to do this. A high relief coin would be an instant sellout! Any thoughts?

tightbudget · April 23, 2007 11:34AM

That'd be awesome. If they made those, does anyone think the price of the original HRs will increase?

RareBronzeCollector · April 23, 2007 1:54PM

I've was hoping they would do it for the 2007 centennial of the double eagle.......

I'm all for it..... It's one of the most beautiful coins ever made.......

RWB · April 23, 2007 10:08PM

Suggestions along the lines you mention were made beginning a couple of years ago, but there seemed to be little interest by members of congress (not even the New Hampshire delegation) or the mint. With the glut of self-serving commemoratives plus presidential dollars, I doubt there is time to do anything. (The mint has the original high relief models – they’re stuck in a basement vault in Philadelphia.)

Zoins · April 23, 2007 10:16PM

<< The mint has the original high relief models – they’re stuck in a basement vault in Philadelphia. >>

Sounds like it's time for a midnight minter to get inspired

RBinTex · April 23, 2007 10:21PM

That would be VERY cool

droopyd · April 23, 2007 10:28PM

<< 

<< The mint has the original high relief models – they’re stuck in a basement vault in Philadelphia. >>

Sounds like it's time for a midnight minter to get inspired

>>

At this point that's the only way to make this happen.

BECOKA · April 24, 2007 12:11AM

Since there is no one pushing it won't happen.

You are a year too late, all of the planning has to happen.

On the other hand this is by far one of the best ideas I have heard in a while. I thought that the original double eagle was ruined when they went to the low relief an if I were ever to own a double eagle it would be the beautiful high relief. I don't like the new eagles either.

RWB · April 24, 2007 4:17AM

A search of this message board and the NCG one will pull up several old references to this idea. One thread included the addresses of members of congress - only 2 people wrote letters.

I agree that the high relief - which was Saint-Gaudens' best and final concept for the double eagle during his lifetime - could have easily been re-released with just a change of date on new hubs. A large sell out to coin collectors would have been likely, but.... A further suggestion made more than 2 years ago was to display all of the original models and examples of the coins at the Milwaukee ANA show. This could have been a huge draw and a major traveling exhibit if the SGNHS, Mint and Smithsonian could have cooperated, but.....

ArgentumRex · April 24, 2007 4:21AM

If the mint did this, it might make their AGE's look kind of...crappy

Zoins · April 24, 2007 4:23AM

One issue in today's political environment is that the HR Saint doesn't have any political meaning outside of numismatics and the obverse is already used on the AGEs.

The ASBs were done by the Smithsonian National Museum of the American Indian. There was probably no group to push for HR Saint tribute coins and/or collectors didn't care enough as suggested above.

RareBronzeCollector · April 24, 2007 5:20AM

I'd probably even consider buying it if they issued it as a commemorative medal, so long as it was the ultra high relief wire rim...........

It's a magnificent example of coin/medallic art........ Of course I would prefer it as a double eagle.......... Maybe do a double set along with the eagle......

dcarr · April 24, 2007 7:49AM

<< 

<< The mint has the original high relief models – they’re stuck in a basement vault in Philadelphia. >>

Sounds like it's time for a midnight minter to get inspired

>>

Hmm...
Maybe I should change my business name to "The Midnight Mint"

I've actually been thinking of minting a 2007 "tribute" to the original 1907 St. Gaudens $20.

Who wants to loan me a high-relief St. Gaudens for use as a pattern ?

57loaded · April 24, 2007 8:15AM

<< I think it would be great for the US Mint to issue a high relief Gold Eagle to mark the 100th Anniversary of the St. Gaudens Double Eagle. Since the coin's desing would not change, the mint wouldn't need approval from congress to do this. A high relief coin would be an instant sellout! Any thoughts? >>

they will mint to demand for that one too.

Actually a fantastic thought....

kwmorgan · April 24, 2007 8:34AM

It would be a great idea. Heck, I'd even take a low relief 2007 double eagle. Too bad they wouldn't replace the aging American Eagle program with a yearly modern rendition of Pratt's incused $2.5 and $5 and St Gaudens $10 and $20 gold. Britain still mints sovereigns and they sell very well.

HighRelief · April 24, 2007 2:18PM

Zoins · April 24, 2007 2:20PM

<< Britain still mints sovereigns and they sell very well. >>

Anywhere near as well as AGEs? I'd be pretty surprised if that were the case.

Coinosaurus · April 24, 2007 2:22PM

An ultra-high relief restrike in gold would sell like hotcakes. That would be an awesome coin.

RWB explained in depth how these were made at the last ANA. They had to strike them a gazillion times and anneal them between strikes. It sounded very painful

storm888 · April 24, 2007 3:54PM

Great idea.

Will not happen.

I sure would like to be wrong, though.

garsmith · April 24, 2007 5:07PM

<<Any possibility for a high relief gold eagle to mark the 100th Anniversary of the St. Gaudens?>>

Maybe we should try to get the ANA and some of the large coin venues to petition congress on this

morgansforever · April 24, 2007 7:11PM

I'm all for it, plus it gives collectors a chance to own a classic, can't afford the real thing.

7over8 · April 24, 2007 9:54PM

When the USM ever decides to do a "retro" minting of a classic, please let it be the same denomination, design, size, weight, and metal as the original!

Do it right.

BillJones · April 24, 2007 11:14PM

I don’t know if modern technology would make the production of a High Relief $20 gold any easier, but if it hasn’t, I don’t think you going to see any more of them.

Back in 1907 the mint faced formidable challenges in getting the High Relief St. Gaudens $20 gold coins into production. It took three blows from the dies to get the design fully struck up. Between each of those blows the partially struck coins had to be heated or annealed in order to soften up the gold for the next strike. Production was divided into lots of 1,000 coins. The concern was if either the obverse or reverse dies were to break during the three strike process, using a new die would result in doubled or indistinct images. By segregating the coins into lots, there was less chance of “orphaned coins” that could not be completed using the same die pair.

The mint had to operate 24-7, and it took about a month to produce the total mintage of 12,367 coins. When it was over two things had been proven. Teddy Roosevelt had gotten his “pet baby,” the high relief coinage, and it was as beautiful as he envisioned it. Conversely the expense of producing the coins and the added production space that the mint would have needed to have continued to produce them proved that the High Relief coins were totally impractical for business strike coinage.

Two other nails were driven into the High Relief coffin once the coins went out to the banks. First, bankers complained that the coins would not stack, which it made difficult to count them. Second, the coins were almost immediately withdrawn from circulation, and within a year, they were selling for more than their face value to collectors and non-collectors.

In short, the High Relief $20 gold pieces were an artistic triumph, but a commercial failure.

BillJones · April 24, 2007 11:16PM

<< I'm all for it, plus it gives collectors a chance to own a classic, can't afford the real thing. >>

I think that you would be amazed at how much the mint would have to charge for it given the high price of gold plus the high production costs. Check out my previous message. This coin would be priced like a Cadillac, not a Chevy.

ArgentumRex · April 24, 2007 11:52PM

This might not be exactly the right place for the question, but when a coin requires multiple strikes with annealing between each strike, how do they get it lined up properly in the press for each subsequent strike, and consistently? Does it have to be "exact?" Does the softness from the annealing give the minter some "wiggle room?"

BillJones · April 25, 2007 12:11AM

The coin would have to lined up exactly right, which was one of the things that made the production of these coins so difficult. The annealing was necessary because the medal had to be soft enough to take the impression from the dies, and one ran the risk of getting cracked planchets if the coins were not softened. The coin after it had been struck was brittle.

Any possibility for a high relief gold eagle to mark the 100th Anniversary of the St. Gaudens?

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