Grade this Morgan & explain how-Grade revealed
Boom
Posts: 10,165 ✭
One of my lamps blew out so till I change a bulb or make a few changes you'll need to go with this!
It's not a Trick Question and there is nothing hidden or worth straining to find. It's a super--clean coin. Straight up!
As best you can take a good look at this Beauty and give it your best shot,
What would you say this coin grades, that is presuming you are at least somewhat familiar with the series.
GOOD LUCK. Give it your best shot.
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OK, so I 've had a long day and not a lot of time to get online. The coin is shown towards the end of the thread with the bulbs replaced. Taken in a hurry, I too thought it would grade very nicely.
I think I may have to send this one back for regrade. If you're familiar with the series at all you know that they are notorious for a lot of bag marks. This is a superior looking piece and looks much better than some 65s I have. This one really confounds me. You'll see why!
It's not a Trick Question and there is nothing hidden or worth straining to find. It's a super--clean coin. Straight up!
As best you can take a good look at this Beauty and give it your best shot,
What would you say this coin grades, that is presuming you are at least somewhat familiar with the series.
GOOD LUCK. Give it your best shot.
*********************************************************************************************
OK, so I 've had a long day and not a lot of time to get online. The coin is shown towards the end of the thread with the bulbs replaced. Taken in a hurry, I too thought it would grade very nicely.
I think I may have to send this one back for regrade. If you're familiar with the series at all you know that they are notorious for a lot of bag marks. This is a superior looking piece and looks much better than some 65s I have. This one really confounds me. You'll see why!
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Comments
"Bongo hurtles along the rain soaked highway of life on underinflated bald retread tires."
~Wayne
Will’sProoflikes
It is a very NICE strike for a "o" mint coin with nice distinct Feathering to the breast which is usually barely
existant in them
Strike looks good to very good - Luster with the lighting cannot be determined.
Carwheel looks strong and defined
The Scratch around the "S" in States is very distracting on the reverse
SO bottom Line this could be a 65 coin but with the light I must digress to a 64
nice strike and New Orleans had plenty of them in 1900. I can't tell if it happens
to be a O/CC. That would be a nice bonus in this condition!
Nice overall look,
bob
Nice looking coin Boom, I would pay 65 money for it
Mint State Sixty FOUR!
TorinoCobra71
Fix the light.
If it is a trick question as in highlighting what seems to be an undergraded or overgraded coin, it could be MS63 or MS67, or even AU58.
Al
Pete
Louis Armstrong
I like the Die crack along "United" on the reverse. What is that mark near the "S" in "States" on the reverse? Another die crack?
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BONGO HURTLES ALONG THE RAIN SODDEN HIGHWAY OF LIFE ON UNDERINFLATED BALD RETREAD TIRES
I have NO CLUE how they arrived at the following. Man, what does it take to get a decent grade these days?
I've seen coins that looked like they were in knife fights and LOST that grade higher than this .... and can even produce some in these very same slabs. Ya GOTTA be kidding!
ALL of us are wrong!
This is a Forum to discuss & debate in the hopes of obtaining Knowledge, not for "other" Agenda.
There is NO WAY I would have wasted "Early Bird" Money on a coin that is a POS. I have a system that I use when screening candidates for grading and usually I am very close.
First - I look at the coin in hand, under natural lighting.
Secondly, I look at all the coin with a 5X.
Thirdly, I put the loupe to it.
Fourthly, I take extremely close digital pictures, set them down, shoot, crop and that's that! I usually take at least 10 pix of all candidate coins.
Lastly, I subject all coins to the brutally honest, unflattering, very unforgiving SCANNER ( it makes for one heck of a diagnostic tool) from which NOTHING can escape.
After all this I actually turn my back so that the light source is BEHIND me and look for scrapes, rub, hairlines etc.
If any coin makes it this far and I am willing to pay good money for the coin AND the Service, I sure would think it would be at least somewhere in the neighborhood.
We've ALL seen higher graded Morgans with actual digs on them so deep that water could be poured into them and ants could drink, graded 64-65 AND 66. This piece is a deadringer 65 if not a 66 and that's all there is to it. NO, I didn't "miss' anything.
I study coins' surfaces every day (and night) to the point of exhaustion because I enjoy learning, but this is totally ridiculous particularly when coins that look like Doo grade much higher.
It's NOT a Jealousy thing with me and it's NOT like I started collecting just within the past couple years.
I will say this much. Graders are human and they do make mistakes. I am not beaching because it's my coin or on the grounds that "Ownership adds a point."
I will call a spade a spade just as quickly as I will call one VF, Gem, AT or BB material .... on it's own merits. This is a better piece with very nice surfaces, no distractions in the focal area OR in the field worth mentioning.
If one grader has a bad day and fought with the ole lady before making off for work, kicked the dog and is mad at the world because some jerk cut him off in traffic, he needs to leave that in the car before he sits down to WORK.
Edited to add that if in fact, particularly for Early Bird Money, 3-4 graders actually DO look at our coins, including The Finalizer, I TRULY find it incredible for all these people to agree on this grade.
I do not at find this the least bit amusing and certainly feel that we can not ALL possibly be wrong!
No rant - just truth!
Photos and scans can be deceiving. I've seen plenty of slabbed MS63 Morgans that are like the photo, that don't have many marks. Something else is usually going on. It could be a case of a mistake. An unusual mistake for two out of three graders to slap a 62 grade on a true 65 coin. However, it could also be that you are missing something that doesn't show up in the photos, but is plain as day when looking at the coin in hand, or tilting it under the light or whatever. Again, best to have a few folks look at the coin in person and see what they think might be the reason for what seems to be a low grade, or maybe they agree with you and think NGC just made a mistake.
An outside possibility is a mechanical error, that a MS62 got holdered with a higher grade, and this coin got MS62. Worse mistakes have been made.
If I am wrong I will be the First to stand up and say so. Show me.
Maybe just a tiny note from the graders pointing out what their reasoning is would help the Education process.
We NEVER stop learning.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Probably still the best 62 I have seen though.
Nice Coin
and that the assigned grade is not accurate.
Amazing...
"Bongo hurtles along the rain soaked highway of life on underinflated bald retread tires."
~Wayne
Among the confused...
Pete
Louis Armstrong
<< <i>I'm not EVEN believing THIS! This is one super coin with minor distractions, no wear and tons of luster. It has NOT been dipped to death.
I have NO CLUE how they arrived at the following. Man, what does it take to get a decent grade these days?
I've seen coins that looked like they were in knife fights and LOST that grade higher than this .... and can even produce some in these very same slabs. Ya GOTTA be kidding!
ALL of us are wrong!
That Morgan, for that grade of MS62, IS IN THE WRONG HODLER. Should be in a 4 holder minimum. either crackout and resubmit or send in for UPGRADE review. The NGC grader was sleeping on the job that day!
I am almost sure everyone will concur with this assessment!
TorinoCobra71
A real 64
Cuds maybe?
Shouldn't be graded so harshly for those if they are cuds and not dings.
"Bongo hurtles along the rain soaked highway of life on underinflated bald retread tires."
~Wayne
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
==Looking for pre WW2 Commems in PCGS Rattler holders, 1851-O Three Cent Silvers in all grades
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and despite the rim issues it looks like MS-63
According to all grading guidelines I've ever studied, a coin is to be graded according to it's state of preservation. When in hand it becomes abundantly clear that this has been on the coin since it was pressed.
There is a seam around the edge and it (the seam) has unique qualities/ properties about it. In no way is this coin damaged. It IS as it was the day it was minted and that's the bottom line!
AU 58 - MS62, generally are nice coins but DO have rub somewhere. This coin has NO RUB!
Even some MS 64 and MS 65 pieces have bag marks and don't forget the "Focal Area." This piece's focal area is outstanding as are it's fields. Note how clean these surfaces are.
I posted this in an effort to help us ALL become better graders and by concensus, even with the piece blown up to the size of a dinner plate, most here had it in the 65/ 66 range, right where I did. I saw the seam along the rim and can state that what you see here is NOT what catches the eye, in person. You do so here ONLY because of the sheer size of the coin.
It's a very interesting coin and what is seen is NOT due to any form of damage. There is no evidence of having been beaten down .... no flatness to any part of the reeded edges. If anything it's some sort of planchet flaw.
And as for luster, it has plenty. I said in my opening statement, that I had just blown a bulb. She's unique, that's for sure and worthy of regrade. (JMHO)
In my opinion (and many/most usually disagree with me), I do not consider it "okay" just because damage was caused in the factory, as it were. I realize with coins mint damage seems highly desirable, but not to me. Not really with anything I buy. I wouldn't come across a new Mustang with a horrible gash in the door and then think it's great if the dealer told me it wasn't post-factory damage, that it had occured at the plant during production--damage is damage, flaws are flaws, regardless where they arise. I don't want televisions with bashed in screens, even if it was made that way, or computers with guts spilling out, or homes with cracked foundations, or coins with melted/mangled rims. But that's just me.
Now, you've said your coin is MS 66. I guess I don't understand the problem with what a third party grader says it is, if you are confident with what it is, and happy with it. PCGS isn't god, and you aren't making a case before god to be saved. This is a coin, and the coin ironically doesn't change no matter what slab you stick it in or what the label says. The coin never changes. Crack, resubmit, make your case, prove your case, assemble and present evidence, collect 1000 comments, all that--none of it affects the coin. When I buy a coin, be it slabbed by a TPG or not, I buy it raw. And I wouldn't pay over 60 money for that one, because of the rim issue. Others would. In fact, it seems many on this thread would.
As a grading lesson, I guess we've learned that TPGs are either right or wrong. And we're either right or wrong. No worries.
Nowhere have I said these graders, or any for that matter, are wrong and nowhere did I say this is definitely a MS 66. I DID say that I have this very same series, graded by this very same service that grade MS 65 & 66 that do not look this nice! Don't put words in my mouth. YES, there is something going on on the rim (GOOD EYE) but it's not dings or dents.
I genuinely have & will always want to learn and to know why and although your examples very vividly conjure up images of defective Muscle Cars & bashed in Television sets, we cannot compare Apples to Lemons.
I am saying that what you see is NOT "Post- mintage Damage." I AM saying that these images show a coin with superior surfaces, a coin notorious for "Bag Marks" or contact marks caused from their natural properties, wieght and Mass, as they come into contact with one another, like Ike Dollars or any other heavy coin. To that end it does have the properties of a better graded coin.
See - I WOULD buy that otherwise Pristine 1967 GTO for thousands less and change a door or a hood, assuming the parts I switch out match right down to the Color Code or the availabilty of the matching Paint.
In fact, I'd do it as many times as I could till I made enough profit to buy my Pristine GTO costing me little or nothing. Bad example, but I'd be a door changing, hood-changing Fool!
Seriously, a coin is a coin is a coin is a coin. THIS IS A HOBBY and I like to SHARE! As stated, I like to LEARN and to SHARE Knowledge. What's on the back of PNG endorsed certified coins? " KNOWLEDGE, INTEGRITY & RESPONSIBILITY."
Do we see an over abundance of Numismatic Students and Teachers or a bunch of people learning to exploit Capitalism? I'm a Coin Collector, no more - no less and I have raised several interesting "Grade this coin" posts.
Is everyone who offered an opinion based on what he or she saw, a fool? Is there a flock of Geese following the leader in here, none DARING to ASK "Why" or are there some that stand up and ask, "Hey, what do you guys make of this?"
You go right ahead and buy your top dollar, high graded coins and I'll continue to pick cherries, OK? Oh, and one more thing. Are you serious in that you see so well that you can point out every perceived minute imperfection on a poorly lit coin yet fail to see that your REAL 64 has been dipped to the point of being washed out?
Buy yours already made and never know the thrill of making your own while I keep trying to better myself, making mistakes along the way as well as Trophies and learning from BOTH experiences, but when I miss a Grade by 2 or more points, having studied a coin such as this, I'd like to know "Why" and How they arrived at their conclusions so that I can better myself and become that much better the next time around.
If this Service thinks this is MS 62 due to some metallic build up along the rims otherwise known as cuds, so be it but BY DEFINITION, I am saying this is NO MS 62. Period! Good Luck to you!
Here is a better look. BTW, I still have a long way to go as aphotographer too.