I returned what I THOUGHT was a Fake 32-D 25c & got a much needed education here...

SeaEagleCoins · April 20, 2007 11:58AM

Please read thru the thread...this place is way cool...so much to learn...Thanks especially to Tom B

[beginning of original thread]

...what should I do?

Please help me with this as I am still somewhat new to the forum. I won a coin on Ebay...a 1932-D Wash. 25c in F12 a several weeks ago. When I got it I could see that it was an obvious fake. There is a depression around the D and under a 10x you can see what looks like chisel marks where someone hollowed out a space to set the D from another coin.

I brought it to a National Dealer I know who looked at it and before he even put a glass to it said it was an obvious fake. I contacted seller...he respectfully disagreed but did accept a return and refunded all my $ except for the return shipping. Fine...that's life on the bay...I had let it go and moved on...

BUT NOW...he has relisted the coin as "original and uncleaned" AND 100% genuine...????? Here is the real problem for me... He is a forum board member...I had 'found' his auction from a thread he posted on the BST...so I was a bit surprised when this all happened...

Do I simply email him and repeat what I have already told him? Do I report him to ebay? Do I out him here and maybe someone who knows him better than I can have 'a little chat' with him?

What say you all????

OPA · April 20, 2007 12:07PM

<< ...what should I do?

Please help me with this as I am still somewhat new to the forum. I won a coin on Ebay...a 1932-D Wash. 25c in F12 a several weeks ago. When I got it I could see that it was an obvious fake. There is a depression around the D and under a 10x you can see what looks like chisel marks where someone hollowed out a space to set the D from another coin.

I brought it to a National Dealer I know who looked at it and before he even put a glass to it said it was an obvious fake. I contacted seller...he respectfully disagreed but did accept a return and refunded all my $ except for the return shipping. Fine...that's life on the bay...I had let it go and moved on...

BUT NOW...he has relisted the coin as "original and uncleaned" AND 100% genuine...????? Here is the real problem for me... He is a forum board member...I had 'found' his auction from a thread he posted on the BST...so I was a bit surprised when this all happened...

Do I simply email him and repeat what I have already told him? Do I report him to ebay? Do I out him here and maybe someone who knows him better than I can have 'a little chat' with him?

What say you all???? >>

Report him to eBay....

TomB · April 20, 2007 12:09PM

I believe many D mintmarks on legitimate 1932-D quarters are found within a depression.

Amigo · April 20, 2007 12:10PM

Out him to the Forum. Lets not make it easy for crooks to hide.

SeaEagleCoins · April 20, 2007 12:13PM

<< I believe many D mintmarks on legitimate 1932-D quarters are found within a depression. >>

Frankly, I had never heard this...not to say it isn't so. Even if this is true, how to explain what look like chisel marks under 10x magnification?

Moose1913 · April 20, 2007 12:14PM

quattrocoins · April 20, 2007 12:15PM

The Seller turned out to be a real Stand-Up & Classy Guy!

SeaEagleCoins · April 20, 2007 12:17PM

yep...that's the one...thanks for the pics

SeaEagleCoins · April 20, 2007 12:20PM

Here is link

TomB · April 20, 2007 12:28PM

The images provided in that auction would make me believe the coin is a real 1932-D. If you have copies of the ANA Counterfeit Detection Guide volumes one and two you can read more about the diagnostics of genuine 1932-D quarters and many other coins.

Bruceswar · April 20, 2007 1:02PM

I agree this coin looks real to me. I would have no problems owning it.

ScarsdaleCoin · April 20, 2007 1:09PM

didnt one of the early us coins say mind your business....

BobaFett72 · April 20, 2007 1:09PM

I have sold many coins to several forum members including complete sets of Lincolns, Peace Dollars and a near complete Morgan Silver Dollar set. ZERO complaints or problems. The coin is not altered in any way.

I returned the coin with no hassles, no problems and FULL refund because he wasnt happy with the coin, and I I'm happy to do the same if the buyer is displeased with the coin.

Thanks for editing the title and the post larry; apology accepted. have a good weekend.

Bruceswar · April 20, 2007 1:23PM

If this auction gets taken down by ebay it will be a sad day. If you think this coin is a fake you need to hit the books. Asl any Washington collector and I bet not one would side with you on this coin. BTW who was this national dealer who said the coin was a fake??

clw54 · April 20, 2007 1:27PM

I had an experienced dealer tell me he thought my 1955 DDO was fake. It's now in a PCGS holder.

TommyB · April 20, 2007 1:32PM

Why would anybody mess with a mint mark on an F12 Washington? What a waste of time. I say legit.

SeaEagleCoins · April 20, 2007 1:33PM

I have been humbled and offer my apologies all around...especially to Bobafett ... Tom B just gave me a much needed education ...and I must now add a few books to my large yet growing library.

I DID NOT report anything except here on this thread...I am grateful for the education I received this evening and if I have handled this improperly...again...I apologize.

Connecticoin · April 20, 2007 1:34PM

That coin looks real to me.

Unless the coin gets bagged by a top tier TPG as fake, the OP should not be accusing the seller of selling a fake coin. He should edit out the title and apologize to the seller.

Edit: I see apology has been made

, title should still be edited.

BobaFett72 · April 20, 2007 1:37PM

Apology accepted Larry, again I'm sorry that you werent happy with the coin, I was happy to refund your money. Peace. It's all good.

have a good weekend,
Leo

SeaEagleCoins · April 20, 2007 2:00PM

Here is the info shared with me...

"The ANA [Counterfeit Detection] books might be tough to find since they went out of print in the 1980s, but p91 of volume 1, from 1983, shows several images of real and altered 1932-D quarters and adds this text-

"Altered 1932-D quarters generally have an improperly shaped mintmark that lacks one or both serifs. The genuine D, even though "smeared" by worn machinery doubling, does have rather square formed serifs. A distinctive characteristic of one state of one die is the three die polish above the E of QUARTER. On many of the coins, the D seems to sit down in a depression."

The books are worth the effort to obtain. I hope this may help."

I thank the forum for another level of education !!! Hope you all have a wonderful weekend and...

I hope Bobafett gets way more than I originally won the coin for !!!

ziggy29 · April 20, 2007 2:05PM

Memo to anyone posting about being "burned" by consigning to Heritage: this is how you change the subject line when you realize things aren't as you thought they were.

foundinrolls · April 20, 2007 2:08PM

compare to this one

That little depression around the D is not unusual. Youcan see it on the version in the link.

clw54 · April 20, 2007 2:30PM

This was a classy way to handle it.

Frankcoins · April 20, 2007 9:26PM

Rule on thumb on 32-D quarters

IF IT LOOKS BAD, IT'S GOOD

PerryHall · April 20, 2007 10:14PM

<< I believe many D mintmarks on legitimate 1932-D quarters are found within a depression. >>

True!!! When the mintmark is punched into the die, some die metal is displaced and rises above the surface of the die's field. This translates into a depression around the mintmark on the struck coin. This depression disappears once the die is polished.

jdimmick · April 20, 2007 10:30PM

Based on what I see on the pic, the 32-d quarter is genuine. Some National dealers are not always as knowledgeable as people expect them to be. I know a few, and they have to go ask others quite frequently to find out if coins are okay, genuine, etc.

gonzer · April 20, 2007 10:37PM

It's refreshing to see that good etiquette still survives. Hats off to both you gentlemen.

cmerlo1 · April 21, 2007 12:45AM

Looks real to me. The new CPG actually has a variety of 1934-D with the 'Type of 1932' D. Page 156 has a nice photo for comparison...

--Christian

CaptHenway · April 21, 2007 1:05AM

<< Here is the info shared with me...

"The ANA [Counterfeit Detection] books might be tough to find since they went out of print in the 1980s, but p91 of volume 1, from 1983, shows several images of real and altered 1932-D quarters and adds this text-

"Altered 1932-D quarters generally have an improperly shaped mintmark that lacks one or both serifs. The genuine D, even though "smeared" by worn machinery doubling, does have rather square formed serifs. A distinctive characteristic of one state of one die is the three die polish above the E of QUARTER. On many of the coins, the D seems to sit down in a depression."

The books are worth the effort to obtain. I hope this may help."

I thank the forum for another level of education !!! Hope you all have a wonderful weekend and...

I hope Bobafett gets way more than I originally won the coin for !!! >>

I may have written that. It is certainly true. The coin in question is genuine.
TD

blueifalcon · April 21, 2007 1:13AM

What a class act by both gents.

tincup · April 21, 2007 1:52AM

Agree about the class act for both of those involved. Not quite so sure about the 'national dealer'.

RickMilauskas · April 21, 2007 2:13AM

Glad to see this turned out fine for both parties.

I applaud you both for being forgiving, mature and admitting you made an error.

Too many times I see things get blown out of proportion or someone jumps to conclusions
without thinking things through first.

I guess what I am saying is that I have seen individuals in the past "shoot first and ask questions later."

fc · April 21, 2007 2:35AM

this is a great place to ask if a coin has a problem

before you buy it off ebay ;-)

TJM965 · April 21, 2007 3:31AM

Coins are questionable when selling them to dealers, but magically become "real" after purchased by them. I had a 1932 D quarter in a MS64 Segs holder. The dealer who I was showing it to asked another dealer how he liked this 64. The 2nd dealer, without even looking yet, but seeing the holder it was in, gave his opinion as a slider AU. The 1st dealer passed, even though I had it priced between 60 and 63 money. I did sell it the same day to a more knowlegeable dealer, who probably made a good profit. Just because you get an opinion from a dealer, does not necessarily mean it is correct.

PerryHall · April 21, 2007 4:08AM

When you ask a dealer about a coin, he will frequently find fault with it because he thinks you may be trying to sell it and he wants to rip it.

zeus135 · April 24, 2007 12:33AM

So, did this coin sell for more the second time around?

foundinrolls · April 24, 2007 4:02AM

I hope this is OK to say but you can go to my website... http://www.askaboutcoins.com near the top of the page you can click on a link to my bookstore. That will bring up coin books. At the bottom of that page, you can do a serach, set the search up for books and type in the word counterfeit, click your way through a few of the pages and you will find John devine's book on Counterfeit detection as well as books on detecting counterfeit gold coins. The link is under this message where it says MY URL

You can order from the website.

Thanks,
Bill

BobaFett72 · April 24, 2007 4:25AM

It sold for a few dollars more this time around, to a board member; who has bought stuff from me previously

I'm glad it found a good home. and I hope that SeaEagle finds a nice specimen for his collection.

Cheers!
Leo

RareBronzeCollector · April 24, 2007 5:09AM

<< The images provided in that auction would make me believe the coin is a real 1932-D. If you have copies of the ANA Counterfeit Detection Guide volumes one and two you can read more about the diagnostics of genuine 1932-D quarters and many other coins. >>

A bit more than 3 years ago, a friend of mine got a deal on a RAW AU with luster 1932-D..... When he showed it to me, I thought the same, an added mintmark due to the depression..... It just seemed too good for the price.... When I checked the above references, we discovered that those diagnostices were on the GENUINE specimens......

Upshot was, the coin was submitted and came back ........ PCGS MS-62...... a REALLY SUPER DEAL.... ( he was only hoping for an MS-60)

RareBronzeCollector · April 24, 2007 5:13AM

<< Memo to anyone posting about being "burned" by consigning to Heritage: this is how you change the subject line when you realize things aren't as you thought they were.

>>

RareBronzeCollector · April 24, 2007 5:15AM

<< Rule on thumb on 32-D quarters

IF IT LOOKS BAD, IT'S GOOD >>

Almost exactly what I said to my friend after the research we did in reference to my earlier post......

kwmorgan · April 24, 2007 7:20AM

Just looked at my 1932-D and the one pictured is just about a carbon copy of mine. My "D" sits in a depression as well, as does the "S" of the same year.

SeaEagleCoins · April 24, 2007 8:47AM

<< It sold for a few dollars more this time around, to a board member; who has bought stuff from me previously

I'm glad it found a good home. and I hope that SeaEagle finds a nice specimen for his collection.

Cheers!
Leo >>

I did notice that you got a bit more this time around...I had been rooting for you to get more.

I'm glad things all worked out...

BTW...I found a supplier who has a copy of Vol. I of the ANA Detection Guide for me and is hoping to soon have a few copies of Vol. II ... and so my library and education continues...

I returned what I THOUGHT was a Fake 32-D 25c & got a much needed education here...

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I returned what I THOUGHT was a Fake 32-D 25c &amp; got a much needed education here...

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I returned what I THOUGHT was a Fake 32-D 25c & got a much needed education here...