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New guy with some beginner questions
frostbyte
Posts: 170
Hi, I just started collecting coins again for the first time since being a kid. I'm starting safe...I think and getting Gold Bullion new stuff and mostly proofs graded by pcgs or ngc. I'll slowly branch out into other coins as I get more educated, but I'm sure I could loose a lot of money buying things I don't know anything about first.
What is Burnished Dies? I think it's used old dies that made the type coin.
What is the visual difference in a PF69 and 70? Will I be able to tell the difference? I have bought all 69's, but is 70 better in the long run considering the cost to upgrade?
My plans are investment that will be fun at the same time.
If you buy a coin from the US Mint then send it in for rating, how often will it be a 70 vs 69 or could it be less on average?
What are some of the best sources to buy from? I am currently using ebay.
Where can I get a list of the different gradings?
What is Burnished Dies? I think it's used old dies that made the type coin.
What is the visual difference in a PF69 and 70? Will I be able to tell the difference? I have bought all 69's, but is 70 better in the long run considering the cost to upgrade?
My plans are investment that will be fun at the same time.
If you buy a coin from the US Mint then send it in for rating, how often will it be a 70 vs 69 or could it be less on average?
What are some of the best sources to buy from? I am currently using ebay.
Where can I get a list of the different gradings?
Beginner that wants to learn.
0
Comments
begin your education. i'll answer a bit on paragraph one. my opinion is that if you're into bullion, you're not a collector of coins. you're an investor. big difference. of course, you might be a mix, we all are. don't start with gold bullion. understand you will NOT make money in this hobby. the board can begin to respond to the other items.
That being said, I am sure you are going to receive a great deal of information in response to your questions. I suggest listening carefully, and charting the responses. Then act accordingly.
You should start by stopping your purchases on ebay. You need to know a lot more before entering that pit.
Most people cannot tell the difference between a 69 and 70... and you must realize, that those that claim that lofty ability, are offering an opinion, not a fact.
Coins, in general, are usually not the most favorable medium for investing - there are better venues.
I will now let the others continue to elaborate and offer their very sound advice.
Cheers, RickO
You mentioned coins graded by "gncs" - was that a typo?
Perhaps oversimplifying a bit, but I don't think you'll be able to see the difference between a 69 and a 70. Yes, there is a higher cost to coins graded 70, but only you can decide if that's worth it.
I think that bullion coins you buy from the mint today have a 5% chance of grading 68, a 94% chance of grading 69, and a 1% or less chance of grading 70.
Chances are you'll spend less buying your coins from the Mint directly, unless you will only be satisfied with a 70.
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
Second Generation Coin, Currency and Precious Metals Dealer
Coin, Currency or Bullion Questions?
Call anytime 954-493-8811
I do collect other stuff, but I started with Bullion because it's easy to know at least the value of the gold alone and it hopefully won't be worth less than that.
I have coins from my childhood, but I'm trying to find them since we moved last summer and I haven't gotten them out yet. I have coins from around the world on my travels, some paper money like a large note 1913 if I remember right, 1953 $2, a bunch of 1935 E stuff I think, and some old coins probably in the family of widow mites, but no clue. So if you can't make money, at least minimize the loss. ^_^ I've always been facinated with collecting. Stamps, coins, cards, etc.
<< <i>Wow. So you generally can't make money at this over the long run?
I do collect other stuff, but I started with Bullion because it's easy to know at least the value of the gold alone and it hopefully won't be worth less than that.
I have coins from my childhood, but I'm trying to find them since we moved last summer and I haven't gotten them out yet. I have coins from around the world on my travels, some paper money like a large note 1913 if I remember right, 1953 $2, a bunch of 1935 E stuff I think, and some old coins probably in the family of widow mites, but no clue. So if you can't make money, at least minimize the loss. ^_^ I've always been facinated with collecting. Stamps, coins, cards, etc. >>
The money is made in the new stuff, the value is stored in the old stuff.
Thanks for the welcome. Looks like a busy site. Very nice to see. I'm at work so I can't call, but you will probably hear from me sometime when I have time and I'm at home. Thanks.
<< <i>The money is made in the new stuff, the value is stored in the old stuff. >>
Awesome wording. Very true.
So I'll get to the old stuff, but I don't know where to start. I like gold and the better the grading is preferred, but most is at a huge premium from what I've found so far. I don't know if I'm into loose coin, but rather plank or slab or whatever the term is to a graded coin. Possibly interested in getting ungraded coins and submitting them for grading, but I'm way away from knowing how to grade by looking. My friend has a book that helps, but it's black and white generally bad pictures so not a true help, but a basic beginners guideline.
-Paul
NGC PF69 2007-w Gold Eagle $25 Early Releases (probably sell since I got the complete set in 1st strike shortly after)
NGC PF69 2006-s Kennedy Half Dollar
PCGS PR69 DCAM 2007-w Gold Eagle 4 coin set $50, $25, $10, $5 1st strike
NGC PR69 1st strike 2006 Gold Buffalo $50
I'll probably get a set from each year as I go now or just the different kinds.
For old stuff maybe start with pre1900 stuff in gold but not sure what yet.
<< <i>The money is made in the new stuff, the value is stored in the old stuff. >>
What a great sentence. I'm going to remember that forever.
Guy <---- another wet-behind-the-ears newby
Based on some of your questions this link might be useful for you.
link
Welcome.
The entertainment can never be overdressed....except in burlesque
It's hard for people to avoid "investing" when they see prices soaring but you'll
have more fun, learn more, and make more money to the degree you can avoid
investing. Tastes are fickle and the spreads in coins are large. It can take years
to have a profit even in the most desirable coins and then it can evaporate sud-
denly.
Strike: FS Full Steps
Strike: FB Full Bands
Strike: FH Full Head
Strike: FBL Full Bell Lines
Surface: DM Deep Mirror Prooflike
Surface: PL Prooflike
Surface: DC Deep Cameo
Strike: CA Cameo
Strike: BM Branch Mint Proof
I don't understand these though. Is one more desirable or all different. I have a Deep Cameo coming, but is that a flaw or just how they all are or what?
<< <i>I don't understand these though. Is one more desirable or all different. I have a Deep Cameo coming, but is that a flaw or just how they all are or what? >>
I don't mean this to be condescending (seriously!), but if you don't know what those descriptions are, you should probably not be buying that stuff. Would you buy real estate you don't know anything about or stock in a company you've never heard of? You'll be dollars ahead if you slow down just a bit and figure out where you're going. Good luck.
<< <i>I don't mean this to be condescending (seriously!), but if you don't know what those descriptions are, you should probably not be buying that stuff. Would you buy real estate you don't know anything about or stock in a company you've never heard of? You'll be dollars ahead if you slow down just a bit and figure out where you're going. Good luck. >>
So in being condescending, you are trying not to be? As you can read, I'm new. That's why I'm on here. To learn. Thanks for not helping out with the question though.
<< <i>
<< <i>I don't mean this to be condescending (seriously!), but if you don't know what those descriptions are, you should probably not be buying that stuff. Would you buy real estate you don't know anything about or stock in a company you've never heard of? You'll be dollars ahead if you slow down just a bit and figure out where you're going. Good luck. >>
So in being condescending, you are trying not to be? As you can read, I'm new. That's why I'm on here. To learn. Thanks for not helping out with the question though. >>
I believe the member was trying to help. It may have seemed blunt, but I believe it was sincere. You listed coins that you purchased, then followed up by stating you don't know what the designations mean. I agree that you should slow down on purchases and learn, but that's up to you. Good Luck. -Preussen
<< <i>So in being condescending, you are trying not to be? As you can read, I'm new. That's why I'm on here. To learn. >>
I said it wasn't meant that way- I can't help it if you choose to disregard my stated intention.
<< <i>Thanks for not helping out with the question though. >>
I did offer some, nonetheless: You'll be dollars ahead if you slow down just a bit and figure out where you're going. Sorry it's not the help you wanted.
and buy coins but don't believe that just because a coin sells at some price that it's
necessarily the going rate or might not be bought elsewhere for much less.
Sell some coins once in a while so you know what they're really worth. This is much
more important for someone who is interested in making a profit but applies to all
collectors.
The money is made in the new stuff, the value is stored in the old stuff. >>
Investing, investing and sitting on the coins, or investing and actively buying and selling.
Sounds like you want to invest and sit on them.
These are in no specific order..
Rarity, how many minted, how many are available
Quality, your question on PF69 or PF70
Market or liquidity, what will be your market when you do decide to sell. To invest, means at sometime you will sell.
Intrinsic value, gold, silver, platinum all have less deposits in the earth and greater uses / demand to humans than copper or zinc relative to the deposits. ( I know I am going to irritate some lincoln collectors here). So in the long run buying coins with greater intrinsic value gives you an "outside the hobby" hedge. Sometimes good sometimes bad, depends on where the metal market goes. Think of it this way, on todays market, a pre 1982 penny has an intrisic value of 2 cents for the copper content, a new penny has .006 cents of metal value. So in your lifetime the intrinsic value of the new penny, most likely, will never be worth as much as a pre 1982 penny today in metal content.
All these factors should be taken into account if you are investing for the long run. Otherwise take the short run and churn high grade modern slabs, the margins will be slimmer because thats how collectors make their money to buy the good stuff. (Hey he asked a question, I gave him a thruthful answer)
The detail on the steps on the Jefferson nickel reverse meets the grading service standard for "full"
Strike: FB Full Bands
The detail on the bands across the fasces on the Mercury dime reverse meets the grading service standard for "full"
Strike: FH Full Head
The detail on Liberty's head on the Standing Liberty quarter meets the grading service standard for "full"
Strike: FBL Full Bell Lines
The detail on the lines at the bottom of the Liberty Bell on the Franklin half reverse meets the grading service standard for "full"
Surface: DM Deep Mirror Prooflike
Meets the grading service standard for mirrored fields. Most often seen on Morgan dollars. Often abbreviated DMPL
Surface: PL Prooflike
As above, but not as mirrored
Surface: DC Deep Cameo
Meets the grading service standard for intensely frosted devices and mirrored fields. PCGS calls it Deep Cameo, NGC calls it Ultra Cameo.
Strike: CA Cameo
As above, but not so much
Strike: BM Branch Mint Proof
A proof coin made at a branch mint such as Denver, but only used when the proofs were being made in Philadelphia. For example, All proof set coins are now made in San Francisco. That's a branch mint, but those coins aren't called Branch Mint proofs because ALL the proofs are made there. Branch Mint proofs are very, very unusual.
Note that "Full <something>" does NOT necessarily mean the coin is fully struck everywhere.
All the above designations are considered desirable and usually are worth more than the same coin in the same grade without the designation. But sometimes the designation is nothing special - for example, all proof coins made today are Deep Cameo. But 40 years ago or more, only a small percentage of proof coins qualify as Deep Cameo.
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
Looks like you have already gotten some good sound advice here. Enjoy your stay.
-------------
etexmike
The answer depends upon which grading service you send it to. Some services hand out 70's all the time, while PCGS does not. Hence the value of brand-X PR-70 coins will not be as dramatically high as PCGS PR-70 graded coins. Since you are familiar with Ebay, look at closed auctions and compare ICG PR-70 prices with PCGS PR-70. Is there a consistent difference in price?
So from my first post, was I right about the burnished die coins? Is that just mean it comes with the die?
<< <i>Q]
The money is made in the new stuff, the value is stored in the old stuff. >>
Investing, investing and sitting on the coins, or investing and actively buying and selling.
Sounds like you want to invest and sit on them.
These are in no specific order..
Rarity, how many minted, how many are available
Quality, your question on PF69 or PF70
Market or liquidity, what will be your market when you do decide to sell. To invest, means at sometime you will sell.
Intrinsic value, gold, silver, platinum all have less deposits in the earth and greater uses / demand to humans than copper or zinc relative to the deposits. ( I know I am going to irritate some lincoln collectors here). So in the long run buying coins with greater intrinsic value gives you an "outside the hobby" hedge. Sometimes good sometimes bad, depends on where the metal market goes. Think of it this way, on todays market, a pre 1982 penny has an intrisic value of 2 cents for the copper content, a new penny has .006 cents of metal value. So in your lifetime the intrinsic value of the new penny, most likely, will never be worth as much as a pre 1982 penny today in metal content.
All these factors should be taken into account if you are investing for the long run. Otherwise take the short run and churn high grade modern slabs, the margins will be slimmer because thats how collectors make their money to buy the good stuff. (Hey he asked a question, I gave him a thruthful answer) >>
This is so oversimplified as to be meaningless, and it's not entirely accurate.
For instance there is less silver in the world than there is gold and the demand
is far higher yet the price is a small fraction of the gold price.
A zinc cent had over one cent worth of metal in it as recently as a month ago. By
this logic a run of the mill 2004 cent is four times a better investment than a gem
1932-D quarter was in 1935. ...An 1804 dollar is a very poor investment relative
an MS-69 ASE.
There is no real intrinsic value to gold or currency beyond what people ascribe to
it. This same thing applies to rare coins. People desire to own rare coins because
of reasons other than intrinsic value. If they quit desiring to own them the the value
would be lost.
People are a perverse lot and we collectors probably moreso. Telling people that
something isn't collectible is more likely to drive them to it than away from it.
<< <i>So from my first post, was I right about the burnished die coins? Is that just mean it comes with the die? >>
I'm even newer than you are so don't take my word for anything, but...
Burnished just means a special way to polish. I'm not sure the Die was polished with your coin, are you sure it wasn't the blank they were saying was burnished?
I think if you're expecting a working die to come with your coin you're going to be disappointed.
Dont let anyone tell you that you cant make money, or this is not an investment because if you are wise you can do very well.
Read this message board and get ideas from the group and make your own choice of what you want.
But remember one thing.........only collect what you really love and want and what looks good to YOUR eyes.
If you decide to just collect AG Lincoln Cents or MS Platinum Eagles......ITS ALL COIN COLLECTING
The two will never mix well.
<< <i>Hobby????? profiit???? Please do not be snowed here.
The two will never mix well. >>
I disagree here. The 2 can mix well. I know alot of collectors who sell coins on the side to fund thier collecting habbits. Welcome the forums, and learn all you can before you buy. Also I would recommend you check out the What You Need to Know section of the NGC boards.
WYNTK
Good question, I don't think PCGS can really tell the difference either. They must flip a coin, heads 70, tails 69.
Kinda like the instructor that doesn't give out A's.
I have PF69'S that are flawless, crack em out and play the submit game.