Do early coppers in slabs avoid the need for regular brushings of the coins?

Longacre · March 29, 2007 3:11AM

I realize that early coppers are the "high maintenance" coins of the numismatic world. I hear that they need to be brushed occasionally with a camel hair brush, and otherwise given some lovin' and pamperin' on a regular basis. For early coppers that are in <gasp> slabs, does that obviate the need for brushing? In other words, does the gunk that needs to be brushed off regularly just not get on the coin when the copper is in a nice plastic slab?

Pistareen · March 29, 2007 3:24AM

Yeah right, nothing like a warm nest of Southern California or Florida air to keep your coppers clean.

You're kidding, Longacre, right?

IGWT · March 29, 2007 3:26AM

I hear that you have to brush more vigorously when the coin is in a slab.

Longacre · March 29, 2007 3:28AM

<< <i>Yeah right, nothing like a warm nest of Southern California or Florida air to keep your coppers clean.

You're kidding, Longacre, right? >>

Really. I am not entirely sure what causes the coins to need to be brushed, but from your comment, it seems like humidity is one of the culprits. Because the slab are not air tight, I guess the holders do not offer sufficient protection.

notwilight · March 29, 2007 3:46AM

Longacre,
You're apparently fascinated with the need to actually touch the surface of a rare coin and are man enough to admit it. Some of the collectors here who eschew copper in favor of early silver which has much better tolerance to environmental challenges appear from their responses to prefer to ignore such silliness as these EAC fools perpetuate.

But you give me a chance to post some of my old coins and I thank you. Based on the response to the grungy 1802 that I posted in your last thread the majority of the people had nothing good to say so they said nothing at all. buI I have thick skin so don't be afraid to post negatives.

The image below if of my favorite coin of all time--the first slabbed coin I bought, may avatar, and one coin I will never get rid of. It is not fancy by forum standards--in a PCGS VF-25 OGH. I post it in this thread because I'm worried about the white cottage cheeze stuff on the surface. I have closeups of the stuff on my home computer but not available right now. I'm to the point of considering cracking it out.

But it has always been in this holder and I'm used to it this way and I really would like to have it in that holder forever. I've even considered trying to find a time when PCGS isn't too busy (away from any new popular USMint issue) and see if I could talk them into letting me bring it in, crack it out, conserve it, and reslab it with the same label...

Hoot · March 29, 2007 4:03AM

Slabs are the long-term death of copper. Early copper in slabs denoting "problems," such as NCS and ANACS net slabs, simply guarantee that whatever is going wrong with the piece now will be perpetrated as long as the coin is in the slab. Slabs for early copper should most properly be used only as vehicles of transport from one copper collector to another, or perhaps a short-term solution of keeping the uninitiated and inexperienced from wrecking an otherwise great coin.

Hoot

IGWT · March 29, 2007 4:09AM

-- "Early copper in slabs denoting 'problems,' such as NCS and ANACS net slabs, simply guarantee that whatever is going wrong with the piece now will be perpetrated as long as the coin is in the slab." --

Mark -- How would cracking the coin out of a slab ensure that the problem is not perpetuated?

holeinone1972 · March 29, 2007 4:22AM

As a new copper wannabe especially for my type set, will coins placed in a Dansco 7070 be ok?

Is there really something that needs to be done with them?

Should I really ever touch my copper? LOL

Hoot · March 29, 2007 4:25AM

<< <i>-- "Early copper in slabs denoting 'problems,' such as NCS and ANACS net slabs, simply guarantee that whatever is going wrong with the piece now will be perpetrated as long as the coin is in the slab." --

Mark -- How would cracking the coin out of a slab ensure that the problem is not perpetuated?

>>

Lou - As I said, the slab can provide protection from the uninitiated. Those who have taken the time to learn how to properly care for and store copper can prevent, slow down, and even reverse corrosive and other processes from occuring on coppers, but they have to actually handle the coins and keep them in the right conditions. A slab is a trap for moisture and other environmental chemicals that will destroy some coins in time. The only way to solve the problem is to have the coin out of a slab and in the hands of an advanced collector. The example here of early copper is more obvious than others, since pure copper (which those coins basically were) is highly reactive and can change rapidly if ignored. Slabs work both ways - they protect in some ways and they are a growth chamber for problems in another. In the long-term, early coppers in slabs will suffer.

Hoot

Longacre · March 29, 2007 4:28AM

Hoot-- by the way, nice article in the recent issue of Coin Values!

MacCrimmon · March 29, 2007 4:38AM

A slab is a trap for moisture and other environmental chemicals that will destroy some coins in time. The only way to solve the problem is to have the coin out of a slab and in the hands of an advanced collector. The example here of early copper is more obvious than others, since pure copper (which those coins basically were) is highly reactive and can change rapidly if ignored. Slabs work both ways - they protect in some ways and they are a growth chamber for problems in another. In the long-term, early coppers in slabs will suffer. -- Hoot

Copper needs to breathe!!! Slabs are "Condensation Motels".

Hoot · March 29, 2007 4:48AM

<< <i>Hoot-- by the way, nice article in the recent issue of Coin Values! >>

Thank you sir!

1798CentCollector · March 29, 2007 4:51AM

<< <i>Lou - As I said, the slab can provide protection from the uninitiated. Those who have taken the time to learn how to properly care for and store copper can prevent, slow down, and even reverse corrosive and other processes from occuring on coppers, but they have to actually handle the coins and keep them in the right conditions. A slab is a trap for moisture and other environmental chemicals that will destroy some coins in time. The only way to solve the problem is to have the coin out of a slab and in the hands of an advanced collector. The example here of early copper is more obvious than others, since pure copper (which those coins basically were) is highly reactive and can change rapidly if ignored. Slabs work both ways - they protect in some ways and they are a growth chamber for problems in another. In the long-term, early coppers in slabs will suffer. >>

Good advice - slabs will not preven certain environmental and reactive changes from occcuring. They may protrect to a point - typically from harm by the collecttor

. That 1794 (although it's already a nice looking coin) removed from a slab would probably look pretty amazing in it's original suit and all brushed up for a night out with it's collector/owner.

IGWT · March 29, 2007 4:59AM

Longacre -- Check out Hoot's thread here.

BigMoose · March 29, 2007 5:14AM

Early Copper needs to be cared for. Around twice a year, I apply CARE( the old original stuff ) with a Q Tip on the obverse and reverse of the coins and coat them with this oil/lubricant. Then I brush them but only when they are wet with the applied CARE( mineral oil or Blue Ribbon Coin Conditioner will also work ). After brushing them when wet, I then take off the excess CARE with another clean Q Tip in a rolling manner. This process will remove contaminants and keep your Early Copper looking great. As far as brushing coins, I won't do it unless they are wet and coated with lubricant. There is just something about brushing a dry copper that bothers me. I believe you can put hairlines on coins no matter how soft your "camer hair" brush. I store the coins either in Airtites or cotton pouches inside a paper envelope. Then they go into a storage box with plenty of silica gel packets.

notwilight · March 29, 2007 2:59PM

Ok, Mark, I'm starting to get used to the idea of my precious cent without the familiar old holder. It will be nice to see the edge which I have never viewed.

But I won't do anything for a while. That cottage cheeze seems to be growing very slowly. I need to learn the techniques first. Can you link me to that primer on copper care you posted ATS? I can't find it and I'm sure others here would appreciate it.

Finally, I won't be making it to EAC in St Louis this time. I'd really like to but the demands of being a single dad basicly working two jobs will prevent it. I hope to make it to ANA this summer to take the copper course from Doug Bird.

Thanks, Jerry

EricSan · March 29, 2007 11:47PM

BogMoose: Thanks for providing the details on caring for early copper - its much more useful than just saying that it must be "properly cared for" to people like me who are unaware of the issues.

This thread, though, causes some alarm for me. I have been contemplating purchasing some MS-grade half cents for a type set. I had not planned on putting them in a Dansco, I was just going to collect the slabs (and then try to store them with intercept shields, air-tight containers, silica, etc to keep the moisture down).

I've never known that these coins needed to be maintained. I'm a little hesitant to crack out high grade MS coins that are 200 years old...

Eric

originalisbest · March 30, 2007 12:40AM

Much ado about nothing, IMO. There's a greater chance of funking up your coppers by coating them in CARE or etc. than there is in just leaving them be in a stable, appropriate environment. Early copper showing any trace of red might be reactive; once they're a solid chocolate brown - not so much. Unless you TRY to wreck 'em.

Do early coppers in slabs avoid the need for regular brushings of the coins?

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