When will 1982 Nickel Die Varieties get respect?

Colquhoun · March 25, 2007 9:29AM

Will anyone ever care about 1982 Nickel Die Varieties.? What are they worth atm anyways? I have been looking for and collecting them for 20 years but most people don't even know they exist.

lasvegasteddy · March 25, 2007 9:31AM

what varietys are you speaking of???

lasvegasteddy · March 25, 2007 9:33AM

i have in 82' the no fg halves followed by the no p dime...is there something going on with the nickels???????

morgansforever · March 25, 2007 9:37AM

My CPG ends with the 68S.

My favorite is the 39P DDR. Strong doubling, looking for one.

Colquhoun · March 25, 2007 9:39AM

82-P
Breen 2808 Type of 81
Breen 2809 Obv of 81 Rev of 82
Breen 2810 Obv of 82 Rev of 81
Breen 2811 Type of 82 (most 82s are this)

82-D
Breen 2814 Type of 81
Breen 2815 Obv of 81 Rev of 82
Breen 2816 Obv of 82 Rev of 81
Breen 2817 Type of 82 (most 82-Ds are this)

Colquhoun · March 25, 2007 9:41AM

First 'real' coin I bought was a '39 double monticello at the age of 10 in XF. Still have it and wouldn't trade it for the world.. its by far my favorite coin in my collection.. may not be the most expensive but means so much to me.

edits for tyops, I am not the best typist in the world.. lol

lasvegasteddy · March 25, 2007 9:43AM

you think that's bad...ponder the 35-s peace dollar in 3 or 4 ray reverse.one stand out difference there and still low on the radar

tincup · March 25, 2007 9:43AM

Well, I think you kind of got your answer why they get not respect.... no one knows about them!

That is news to me also.......

What are the varieties worth?

tincup · March 25, 2007 9:44AM

Do you happen to have any pics you can post showing the differences?

Colquhoun · March 25, 2007 9:51AM

I don't have any pics on hand.
The Obv is easy.. the ribbon and hair touch the collar on the type of 81 (my notes say this is the 77-81 obv)
82 Obv it doesn't come close to touching (this is 82-90?)
The Rev is much harder to tell, I have to use a 81 as a reference still. But the difference is in the distance the lengend is from the rim.

Shamika · March 25, 2007 10:06AM

Trust me, there are a zillion varieties that get no respect. Even after books have been published on them, there are many that see zero premium at auction.

Colquhoun · March 25, 2007 10:19AM

Dwight Stuckey first discribed them in 82, in Coinworld (Dec 82, Feb 83)
If we assume his sample of 20,000 to be typical.. (not a safe assumption) Then the most common of var. '82 Type of 81 makes up less then 1/10 of 1 percent. for a mintage of less then 30,000. The mint claimed to get 300,000 from a die.. so taking a leap and assuming (probally incorrectly) that each '81 die var. represents one die. As far as I know no one has studied this in detail, and I don't have or have access to the orginal articles.

19Lyds · March 25, 2007 10:24AM

<< Will anyone ever care about 1982 Nickel Die Varieties.? >>

I hear they are scheduled for recognition right after the IKE Varieties!

cladking · March 25, 2007 10:31AM

All of the circulating moderns get far less respect than they deserve but
this has been changing the last several years. For the first time there are
some people assembling collections and discovering some pretty astounding
things.

The '82 nickels are among the more astounding since there are very few rolls
of these. This means not only very few of the rare varieties but the common
ones as well. And still these sell for only a couple hundred dollars per roll for
the P and less than fifty for the D.

I've always suspected that a lot of the moderns with the previous year's rev-
erse were caused when technicians swapped out the dies at the beginning of
the year. They would change the obverse die with the date on it and then not
notice the reverse die wasn't swapped if it was still in good condition. This isn't
standard practice or there would be many of them every year where in fact there
are always small numbers and most don't exist at all (apparently).

This doesn't account for all these varieties but might for a couple of them.

Writersblock · March 25, 2007 4:32PM

I noticed you didn't list the 1982-S varieties. I don't know if all four varieties are available for the 82-S but I do know they exist with 1981 hubs and 1982 hubs.

It always amazed me that everyone made such a big deal over the change in the S mintmark style in 79 and 81, but then paid no attention to the use of two completely different sets of hubs on the proof nickel in 1982.

TwoSides2aCoin · March 25, 2007 4:54PM

I was not aware of the nickel varieties for 1982. I only knew of the lowly cents.

I'd fall into the "most people don't even know they exist " category

Colquhoun · March 25, 2007 4:59PM

Your correct, I negelated the Proof stikes..
Breen 2812 Type of 81 estimated (by Breen) 1,500,000
Breen 2813 Type II estimated 2,350,000
I have a personal bias toward business strikes.

Why people go nuts over differnce in the mintmark in '81 and ignore two sets of hubs in '82 is beyond me.

I have always thought of the Jefferson Nickel as the Rodney Dangerfield of moderns, despite everything it has going for it.

keets · March 25, 2007 9:04PM

probably the reason why they "get no respect" from the hobby is twofold: not many collectors know about the varieties and the differences are so subtle(a loop is needed to detect them) that the interest level is low. the best varieties are always the ones that can be easily detected. with all that said, there are collectors who know about them.

cladking · March 26, 2007 1:02AM

<< probably the reason why they "get no respect" from the hobby is twofold: not many collectors know about the varieties and the differences are so subtle(a loop is needed to detect them) that the interest level is low. the best varieties are always the ones that can be easily detected. with all that said, there are collectors who know about them. >>

They are subtle differences only because most examples are so poorly made. You could
see them from ten feet if you had well struck gems.

I suspect all the modern nickels get little respect because they are percieved as common
and for most of the dates it's actually true. There are lots fewer than the pre-'65 coins av-
ailable but millions of some of these were set aside. Then to compound the problem qual-
ity is almost always bad. It seems almost every coin has some severe defect, bad strikes
worn out dies, or excessive marking. There nothing to turn off a collector like the perception
that something is horribly common and then find there's often truth to it and quality is awful.

This has led collectors to overlook a lot of truly special coins.

Edited to add disclaimer; I don't have the experience with these that Keets does (probably)
and have never seen a well struck gem of this date much less two of the varieties for compar-
ison. There are some real differences between these dates and they should not be difficult to
spot with experience.

IGWT · March 26, 2007 1:12AM

-- "When will 1982 Nickel Die Varieties get respect?" --

Probably about 100 years after Shield 5c varieties get respect. Get in line.

Zoins · March 26, 2007 1:19AM

Maybe a big dealer needs to start some marketing hype/campaign?

cladking · March 26, 2007 1:32AM

<< Maybe a big dealer needs to start some marketing hype/campaign? >>

This is one of the greatest weaknesses of most mint state circulating moderns; you
can't hype something that you can't acquire in quantity. You can't even get good
quantities of a common date like '84-P how can you get a quantity of the 1982 coins?
Then you have to find each of the varieties.

It simply isn't possible.

Perhaps in the future at an entirely different pricing structure it could be done.

dbldie55 · March 26, 2007 1:38AM

Won't happen in my lifetime or my kids. I would be surprised if it ever happens. There are thousands of varieties out there that get no respect. When you couple it with a series that gets no respect you will not see much interest.

Zoins · March 26, 2007 1:44AM

Do the top TPGs recognize and label the Breen varieties?

mirabela · March 26, 2007 5:16AM

keets · March 26, 2007 5:50AM

They are subtle differences only because most examples are so poorly made. You could
see them from ten feet if you had well struck gems.

while i generally respect what you say, you're stretching it by about nine feet and nine inches. they are subtle differences because they are subtle differences, if they were major, the average collector would notice them without needing to have them pointed out, and no loop would be required to differentiate between two average examples. this might actually be possible with Proof issues, but a Mint State coin that's either weakly struck or a mid-late die state would need close scrutiny and the improved design might not even be discernible with a loop.

i liken it to looking at 1939 Mint State coins and trying to determine if they are Reverse of 1938 or 1940. with a well struck coin it's relatively easy. with a weakly struck coin it's difficult and a loop is needed. with a poorly struck coin and a worn coin it may be nearly impossible to tell the difference.

CaptHenway · March 26, 2007 6:31AM

<< Dwight Stuckley first discribed them in 82, in Coinworld (Dec 82, Feb 83)
If we assume his sample of 20,000 to be typical.. (not a safe assumption) Then the most common of var. '82 Type of 81 makes up less then 1/10 of 1 percent. for a mintage of less then 30,000. The mint claimed to get 300,000 from a die.. so taking a leap and assuming (probally incorrectly) that each '81 die var. represents one die. As far as I know no one has studied this in detail, and I don't have or have access to the orginal articles. >>

I had completely forgotten their existence.

By the way, his name was Dwight Stuckey.

TD

Blackhawk · March 26, 2007 6:46AM

A good start would be for someone to put a set of photos/drawings on the internet so that collectors can see what the varieties are. That it's been 25 years since they were minted and there still are not identification photos available for the varieties does not bode well for their future advent onto the must have list.

gonzer · March 26, 2007 7:04AM

"loop" sic: correct spelling = loupe

keets · March 26, 2007 7:08AM

there are representative pictures on page 78 of The Jefferson Nickel Analyst, my copy being a Second Edition. the pictures shown are of Proofs, so the improved detail should be plain enough.

sinin1 · March 26, 2007 7:48AM

After the 1982 Lincolns get their respect

and Capital Plastics make a holder listing all varieties

I would guess around 43 years and 5 months

cladking · March 26, 2007 8:02AM

<< Won't happen in my lifetime or my kids. I would be surprised if it ever happens. There are thousands of varieties out there that get no respect. When you couple it with a series that gets no respect you will not see much interest. >>

You may well be right and it won't happen but I think there is a real chance that it will. While
the lack of interest bodes poorly for it there is always the fact that the coins can be found in
circulation and there are increasing numbers of people looking at and collecting the circulating
coinage. For less than $10 a kid can buy a folder and fill it with coins from circulation. Indeed
all the circulating coins and their folders will cost less than $80 and keep someone going for
many years trying to find all the coins. There is every possibility that many of the states collect-
ors will do just that and there would be a lot more respect for the '82 varieties. Finding all these
in pristine condition and well made would become an impossibility for most collectors because a
mere handfull of some exist.

Perhaps they'll never get respect but in the meantime they are fun to look for.

Zoins · March 26, 2007 8:04AM

<< A good start would be for someone to put a set of photos/drawings on the internet so that collectors can see what the varieties are. That it's been 25 years since they were minted and there still are not identification photos available for the varieties does not bode well for their future advent onto the must have list. >>

<< there are representative pictures on page 78 of The Jefferson Nickel Analyst, my copy being a Second Edition. the pictures shown are of Proofs, so the improved detail should be plain enough. >>

Although a journal(?) is nice to have, a website would be even better IMO

emzee · March 27, 2007 3:50AM

I had the opportunity to search a lot of 1982- P rolls back in the mid - 1980's and know a lot about this topic. I intend to post images later in the week illustrating ANACS graded varieties by Breen # showing both reverse types as well as obverse 1981 coins. I put aside several rolls of reverse of 1981 coins with both types of obverse.

Michael

leothelyon · March 27, 2007 9:25AM

<< Will anyone ever care about 1982 Nickel Die Varieties.? What are they worth atm anyways? I have been looking for and collecting them for 20 years but most people don't even know they exist. >>

Just like many varieties, until enough folks can get excited about a particular date, they will remain unnoticed. I have several 1982-PD and have been very fortunate to have acquired some very high quality examples (they can be seen in my profile) 3-4 of them grade MS67 IMO. But for the varieties, I have only manged 5 out of the 8 needed to complete the set. A collector by the name of Charlie Adkins completed the set. So did Jim Ragsdale. But thay have long since sold those coins and now it's a matter of time before those present owners sell those coins again.
Keets brought these coins to everyone's attention here last year and I sent him a PM to button it up if he were ever to complete the set. And I guess that I'll do the same.......cheers!

Leo

emzee · March 27, 2007 11:32AM

Pictured below is finest PCGS 1982-D 5c. It is a B2817 with obverse 1982/reverse 1982. It is the only 6-step 1982-D coin I ever encountered. It was purchased in the early 1990's at a Sisti mailbid sale in a PCGS MS66 OGH. I cracked it out and sent it to ANACS where it was called MS66 6 steps. A few years ago I cracked it out and resubmitted it to PCGS who put it in current holder, rightly so IMO.

Michael

emzee · March 27, 2007 12:01PM

Pictured below is best 1982-P B2811 5c (Obverse 1982/Reverse 1982) I have owned. It was originally in an ANACS MS66 6 step holder. I found this coin and several other 6-steppers in rolls searched in the mid-to-late 1980's. When I began collecting Jeffs about 1985 or so, I searched quantities of (then) late-date rolls from the early 1980's acquired from Arlan Kramer, a mail-order roll dealer who was selling rolls via ads in Coin Scrapbook in the early 1960's and is still in business today, I believe. The rolls I initially searched contained majority of B2811 but also significant % of B2808 (Obverse 1981/Reverse 1981) and B2809 (Obverse 1981/Reverse 1982). I continued to order more 1982-P rolls from Mr Kramer into the late 1980's and hoarded nice B2811 coins as well as all B2808 and B2809 coins, so I have a couple rolls of the latter. Sometime around 1990, price of 1982-P rolls really started to increase, so I quit searching. I can also recall buying 20 or so 1982-D 5c rolls in the early 1990's from a CW ad for $2.95 a roll. Since they were not FS and were all B2817, so I put vast majority back into circulation!!

I will post pics of B2808 and B2809and maybe others in next couple days.

Michael

Michael

cladking · March 27, 2007 1:04PM

<< Pictured below is best 1982-P B2811 5c (Obverse 1982/Reverse 1982) I have owned. It was originally in an ANACS MS66 6 step holder. I found this coin and several other 6-steppers in rolls searched in the mid-to-late 1980's. When I began collecting Jeffs about 1985 or so, I searched quantities of (then) late-date rolls from the early 1980's acquired from Arlan Kramer, a mail-order roll dealer who was selling rolls via ads in Coin Scrapbook in the early 1960's and is still in business today, I believe. The rolls I initially searched contained majority of B2811 but also significant % of B2808 (Obverse 1981/Reverse 1981) and B2809 (Obverse 1981/Reverse 1982). I continued to order more 1982-P rolls from Mr Kramer into the late 1980's and hoarded nice B2811 coins as well as all B2808 and B2809 coins, so I have a couple rolls of the latter. Sometime around 1990, price of 1982-P rolls really started to increase, so I quit searching. I can also recall buying 20 or so 1982-D 5c rolls in the early 1990's from a CW ad for $2.95 a roll. Since they were not FS and were all B2817, so I put vast majority back into circulation!!

Michael >>

These are simply tremendous.

It is simply incredible how many of the very few coins originally set aside in the modern
era simply went straight into circulation after they changed hands. Many of the customers
were like you and simply searched the coins for gems and varieties and spent the remainder.

This would have been insignificant in the old days but in the modern era almost all rolls orig-
inated with a mere handfull of dealers. Some of these dealers would obtain as few as a sin-
gle bag of a date/ mintmark. This was especially true with the clad coins but the nickels were
not especially good sellers either. When these bags were gone they would simply quit adver-
tising the date. They would buy them back from customers where possible but many were gone
so even the big suppliers often had to decline orders.

When you consider the low incidence of some of the varieties and the tiny numbers available
to search then you have to figure that some of these are very rare coins.

The Sisti's used to have some really great sales. I regret not being more active in them.

leothelyon · March 27, 2007 1:49PM

I will post pics of B2808 and B2809and maybe others in next couple days.

Very nice coins Michael. I would like to see them especially since I don't have those varieties.

Leo

larrynj · March 28, 2007 3:34AM

here's some info and illustrations on the 1982 reverse varieties from the PAK june 1985 newsletter. this shows 3 reverse varieties while breen lists only 2 reverses, type of 81 and type of 82 with different pairings of the obverse dies. feel free to discuss, since i am confused. i wish i still had my breen book.

emzee · March 28, 2007 7:04AM

Pictures below are of my best B2808 Obv81/Rev81, a nice clean coin very close to FS. This coin came from same group of rolls as B2811 pictured above (and also B2809 to be pictured below in a later post).

That this coin is reverse of 1981 should be apparent to anyone who has examined 1981 Jeffs for FS. The shadow lines between steps appear much deeper and more incised on the reverse of 1982 coins, not to mention differences in the building.

The obverse of the coin pictured shows widening and fuzziness of the peripheral lettering a feature of obverse of 1981 coins. Breen also describes "weak centers" on obverse 1981 coins, most visible here as complete loss of detail in Jefferson's eye (compare to B2811 above). One could argue that the coin pictured here exhibits orange-peel effect around peripheries, hence is an LDS-VLDS coin, hence weakness is due to worn dies etc. but the B2811 pictured in post above is also LDS-VLDS with orange-peel effect, but exhibits relatively sharp letters and eye detail.

Michael

tightbudget · March 28, 2007 7:07AM

When you get a full page ad in every single major newspaper and offer to buy them for way over FV, then maybe yes.

emzee · March 28, 2007 7:29AM

This is a B2809 obv 81/rev 82. The obverse shows thickened lettering and central weakness including lack of eye detail. The reverse shows building and step detail of type of 1982

Michael

emzee · March 29, 2007 1:36AM

Pictured below is 1982-D 5c in an ANACS MS65 5st holder attributed as B2814. It clearly has reverse of 1981, but sharp lettering and eye detail on obverse indicate to me that it is an obverse 1982 coin, hence, in reality a B2816. It has close to 5 steps, but is not a true fs coin. Despite looking for several years I only found one other 1982-D reverse of 1981 5c, also a B2816, much worse than this one.

Michael

cladking · March 29, 2007 6:44AM

Great pictures.

ttt

stockwiz · March 29, 2007 9:50AM

well I don't know about the 1982 varieties, but I just picked myself up a 1997 SMS in PCGS 69FS

LINK

don't find nickels very often that look so good in MS as these do.

Strange how these low mintage obscure SMS nickels were available all this time yet I never noticed. I've always shyed away from nickels because I found them unappealing in most cases, but the strike and detail of these coins has sparked my interest.

cladking · March 29, 2007 10:17AM

<< 

Strange how these low mintage obscure SMS nickels were available all this time yet I never noticed. I've always shyed away from nickels because I found them unappealing in most cases, but the strike and detail of these coins has sparked my interest. >>

Uh oh. It's just a matter of time till you discover the PL's.

JRocco · March 29, 2007 10:38AM

<< well I don't know about the 1982 varieties, but I just picked myself up a 1997 SMS in PCGS 69FS

LINK

don't find nickels very often that look so good in MS as these do.

Strange how these low mintage obscure SMS nickels were available all this time yet I never noticed. I've always shyed away from nickels because I found them unappealing in most cases, but the strike and detail of these coins has sparked my interest. >>

Now go out and find a non-SMS 97 Jeff in 69FS ...

AJ2525 · March 31, 2007 1:51PM

Well,

This thread prompted me to take a close look at my 1982 nickels and see if I could figure out the different reverses. So far as I can tell I have all 1982 reverses.

I even bought four unc 1982-D's in hopes of finding different reverses.

I think this one will stay obscure because it's pretty hard to spot the difference. I thought I had a reverse of '81 but I am not sure because it may just not be struck very well.

Thanks for a good post!

leothelyon · April 7, 2007 11:27AM

<< Well,

This thread prompted me to take a close look at my 1982 nickels and see if I could figure out the different reverses. So far as I can tell I have all 1982 reverses.

I even bought four unc 1982-D's in hopes of finding different reverses.

I think this one will stay obscure because it's pretty hard to spot the difference. I thought I had a reverse of '81 but I am not sure because it may just not be struck very well.

Thanks for a good post! >>

When will 1982 Nickel Die Varieties get respect?

Well, they just got some respect from me! Thanks to Emzee, the coins are very satisfying! But I think the B2814 is the B2814 and to help
AJ2525 out, I'll post some more pics soon. What I have been looking at are the difference in strikes between the P & D minted 1981 nickels.
The 1981-D comes very well struck when compared to the 1981-P. And I believe the same holds true for all the 1982-D varieties when they are compared to the 1982-P varieties. more later

Leo

cladking · April 7, 2007 11:31AM

<< 

Well, they just got some respect from me! Thanks to Emzee, the coins are very satisfying! But I think the B2814 is the B2814 and to help
AJ2525 out, I'll post some more pics soon. What I have been looking at are the difference in strikes between the P & D minted 1981 nickels.
The 1981-D comes very well struck when compared to the 1981-P. And I believe the same holds true for all the 1982-D varieties when they are compared to the 1982-P varieties. more later

Leo >>

In addition to the '81-P not being as well struck most of them have
extremely poor surfaces and are very unattractive. Even gem '81-P's
leave much to be desired usually.

When will 1982 Nickel Die Varieties get respect?

Comments

The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!

My Jefferson Nickel Collection

The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!

My Jefferson Nickel Collection

The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!

My Jefferson Nickel Collection

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