Emzee, I agree its clearly a B2816, and what a wonderfull B2816 is. Trumps mine by far. Personally, in my experience its the hardest one to find. I am curious what it the first thing on the obverse you look at when attributing them. I find the hair below the ribbon to be a dead give away, but I don't know if its that I have looked at so many over the years, and see something I can't really explian, or if the differnce is plain as day. I start at the ribbon, work down the hair, and then to the legend.
Edited yet again.. for tpyos
"I am sorry you are unhappy with the care you recieved, is their anything I can do for you right now, how about some high speed lead therapy?" - A qoute from my wife's nursing forum
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them." – Thomas Jefferson
When trying to tell the difference between O82 and O81 for the 1982PD nickels I usually look at the designer initials first. If they are sharp and crisp then the coin is almost always O82. If the initials are "blurry" then it is likely an O81. Please note that I only use this when dealing w/mint state 1982 coins that have full steps or close to full steps. It may not be true for circulated coins or mint state coins that are not full steps. That just happens to be the type of 1982 coins that I have looked at.
For the reverse I look at the half moon window in the triangle area of the porch roof. If there is a "double" line in the window sill it’s a R82. If there is a single line in the window sill then it’s likely to be an O81. There is a difference in the step detail also. R82 steps are usually sharply struck while the R81 steps are more like the steps on the 1980PD/198P1D coins. My terminology is the steps are blurry. However, I have examples of late die state R82 coins and early die state R81 coins and the steps are "similar”.
The obverse is fairly easy for me to identify but I have much more problems with the reverse.
CS 65-Present FS Jefferson nickel set at myurl RayOverby
<< <i>The top pic is the Rev. of 1977. The pic below is the Rev. 1982
Someone else can elaborrate on the differences between the two reverses.
Leo >>
Great pictures.
I find these to be dramatic differences that simply leap out at you. On most examples of all the varieties the strike is mushy and indistinct so telling them apart is difficult.
Here are 3 obverse pics of the 1981-D, the 1982-D B2814 I have and a 1982-D B2817. Does anyone see any differences between the first two and last coin or the first coin and the last two coins?
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
Rayovac, I agree the Rev is much harder especially on poorly struck examples. Cladking, you never bring less then your A game.. wonderfull and helpfull pics.
"I am sorry you are unhappy with the care you recieved, is their anything I can do for you right now, how about some high speed lead therapy?" - A qoute from my wife's nursing forum
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them." – Thomas Jefferson
The ponytail on coin 1 is more typical of what you see in the 77-81 obv with the hair sorta flowing into the collar. Ribbon and Stars are unusually weak. Coin 2 looks like an over polished die but the stars a more rounded and the folds are weak. A tricky example Coin 3 has sharp folds and stars. I suspect that in hand the differences are clearer.
"I am sorry you are unhappy with the care you recieved, is their anything I can do for you right now, how about some high speed lead therapy?" - A qoute from my wife's nursing forum
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them." – Thomas Jefferson
<< <i>Thankyou. But the pictures are LeotheLyon's. >>
Oppps, Sorry LeotheLyon.. Great pictures. Both the Obv and Rev sets.
"I am sorry you are unhappy with the care you recieved, is their anything I can do for you right now, how about some high speed lead therapy?" - A qoute from my wife's nursing forum
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them." – Thomas Jefferson
<< <i>The ponytail on coin 1 is more typical of what you see in the 77-81 obv with the hair sorta flowing into the collar. Ribbon and Stars are unusually weak. Coin 2 looks like an over polished die but the stars a more rounded and the folds are weak. A tricky example Coin 3 has sharp folds and stars. I suspect that in hand the differences are clearer. >>
In an earlier post you made note of the ponytail and ribbon touching etc. so I put up the pics. 2 and 3 look similar which would support emzee's veiw that the B2814 he and I have are actually of the B2816 variety. But I'm still not certain with how most of the D minted coins have stronger strikes than the P minted dates so how do we tell the difference between the two obverses with the D- minted varieties. I won't be able to respond anymore tonight so hash it out amongst yourselves and come up with some ideas. I also have close ups of the legend or letters of the obverses but they all look to have the same distances from the rim. However the reverse lettering shows the letters further away from the rim on the Rev. 1982 than the rev. of 1981.
Cheers, Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
Man-o-man, this string has been one of the best! Hats off to those who put up some awesome pictures of these 1982 varieties. This is a great photo record for all of us to use. We are only missing photos of 2810, 2814 and 2815. I know we got a pretty good idea of the 81 vs 82 Obv's and Rev's, but it would be nice to have pictures of an actual coin of that variety. I would if I could, but.....I'm one of those guys still looking!
I concede that from the pictures its very difficult. if not impossible. I still think in hand the grove looks different, but its not a differnce I can put in to words, so that really doesn't count. I find the stars interesting, in that none of the 3 are a like, so for many coins this in not a valid marker. One then is left was a great number of Denver coins that are not typical of the either, and determining their hub becomes increasingly difficult. I wonder what collectors of Bust varieties have to say on the matter, surely a similar case exists among Bust coinage.
"I am sorry you are unhappy with the care you recieved, is their anything I can do for you right now, how about some high speed lead therapy?" - A qoute from my wife's nursing forum
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them." – Thomas Jefferson
<< <i>Man-o-man, this string has been one of the best! Hats off to those who put up some awesome pictures of these 1982 varieties. This is a great photo record for all of us to use. We are only missing photos of 2810, 2814 and 2815. I know we got a pretty good idea of the 81 vs 82 Obv's and Rev's, but it would be nice to have pictures of an actual coin of that variety. I would if I could, but.....I'm one of those guys still looking!
Thanks again for the postings. >>
i have an anacs65 5s #2810. it's in the bank box, but next time i'm there, i'll pull it out and make an attempt at some pics. i have some unattributed 82-d' s i'll have to take a look at soon as well.
My wife has weighed in the matter.. "The '81 there is a triangle formed by space between the top of the ribbon, and back of the neck.. Its not there on the 82" I should have known my wife would see something there, she is rather brillant.. even if she did marry me.
"I am sorry you are unhappy with the care you recieved, is their anything I can do for you right now, how about some high speed lead therapy?" - A qoute from my wife's nursing forum
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them." – Thomas Jefferson
I finally dug out that roll of UNC 1982-P nickels that I set aside back in 1982. (Man, I remember getting a bunch of them, shrink wrapped from the bank, but I think I only saved this one. I wish I could go back and smack my 12-year-old self upside the head). It looks like they're all the O82/R82 variety.
I was pleased by the step detail on a few of them, judging from the PCGS pops this is a tougher date to make there in FS. I found five out of the 40 coins with steps nice enough to merit a trip out west, with this coin being probably the best. There's a hit on the dome on the reverse and a few nicks behind TJ's ear but the fields are immaculate. I figure this should be a lock for a 65FS from PCGS.
BTW, these are among the first pics I've taken with my new camera, a FinePix A610. The upgrade became necessary when my wife dropped my trusty A210.
Sean Reynolds
Incomplete planchets wanted, especially Lincoln Cents & type coins.
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
I apologize for bringing this back to the top but can someone please explain why the irregular star used from 1938 to 1981 was changed to a larger star for 1982? Only the dates of 1957 and 1958 carried a larger star before reverting back to the smaller irregular star in 1959. Why have I brought this back up? After studying the 1981 and 1982 nickels I have and applying all the info that I've heard over the last 10 years. For instance, another collector made claims that one of the differences between the obverses of 1981 and 1982 was in the adams apple. What that difference amounted to, I don't know. Others here have said it's in the ribbon and pony tail or the designers initails or the differences in the distance of the letters from the rim. I believe that this Walter Breen and others have miscalculated to say that the obverse of 1977 to 1981 master hubs were used to strike 1982 dates. One important thing to remember is that no major changes have ever been made to the obverse other than when the designers intials were added in 1966. Every time a change in design occured, it was to the reverse, ie; in 1968, 1971, 1977, 1982 and 1987. Substantial changes to the obverse were not made until the 1990's. But after looking for all those acclaimed differences, I just can't see them nor are there any substantial differences that would lead me to think along those lines. The only thing that strikes me odd is that tiny irregular star and why it doesn't appear on any of my nickels or the ones pictured here in this thread. All of the 1982-PD dates I have show a larger star. If the obverse of 1977 to 1981 master hubs (in actuality, the obverse of 1938) were used to strike 1982 dates then where did the that little irregular star go to? Nonetheless, changes were made in the design of the master hubs for the reverse and it's easy to see the differences between the reverse of 1977 and reverse of 1982! But the obverse design was only reingraved or strengthened and remained basically the same except for the star. I could take a great deal of time and post a number of pictures to show this little star verses the larger star that appears on the 1982 but I think whoever is interested can draw their own conclusions by studying their own nickels. Until someone can show me a 1982PorD with that smaller irregular star then all 1982PD nickels were struck with the obverse of 1938. But the reverse master hubs of 1977 were used for awhile in 1982 until the newly designed master hub of 1982 replaced it later that year. Since I can't see or have any useful information to state the differences between an old or new obverse design other than that larger star then there are no Breen 2808's, 2809's, 2814's or 2815 varieties. In other words, I do not believe or have been convince otherwise that there are 1982PD nickels struck with an obverse of 1981 master hub that show any substantial differences other than that larger star. If this holds true, then there are only two varieties for each P & D mint and not four. They are the 1982-P Reverse of 1977 and the 1982-P Reverse of 1982. And the 1982-D Reverse of 1977 and the 1982-D Reverse of 1982. As for all those Breen 2808's, 2809's, 2814's or 2815 varieties, I believe they are nothing more than LDS obverse strikes of the new master hubs of 1982. There are no substantial differences that can be noted here other than that larger star that was added to the new master hubs of 1982. That larger star makes quite a statement since it was added to the new master hubs of 1982. It does not make any sense why the mint would improve the star on the old hubs of 1938 or 1981. Stars don't wear down to where they show an enlargement of it's design nor has the wear corrected the irregularity of the star to something more perfect.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
<< <i>Here are 3 obverse pics of the 1981-D, the 1982-D B2814 I have and a 1982-D B2817. Does anyone see any differences between the first two and last coin or the first coin and the last two coins?
Leo >>
Thanks guys! If you look at the above 3 pics, the only difference is that little irregular star on the 1981-D. Unless someone can show me a 1982-P or D with that smaller star then all Breen 2808's, 2809's, 2814's or 2815 varieties are nothing more than LDS obverse strikes of the new master hubs of 1982.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
This is a very interesting thread although in an area that I must plead mostly ignorance. In general I can vouch for the fact that clad era coins get no respect even in the case of the very obvious varieties. I mean varieties so obvious that I could pick them out by touch.
I have had extensive experience in only two clad era coins. One case has finally achieved a great degree of popularity. In early 1972 I was fortunate enough to discover the Philly T 2 Ike with artwork matching the proof. This was before the T 3 was invented so I could separate them out by touch alone. I had some nice ones and soon realized that they were genuinely scarce.
I offered one to Heritage and was esentially told they wanted no clad trash.
I gave a prominent dealer a set of the 3 types on consignment. They were the best of the best. I would assume the T 2 would grade a PSGS MS 65. After a long period of no interest by anyone in my set , he went on to the ANA and gave my set of 3 to the local coin club. They gave it out as a door prize. By the standards of that time I was probably out not much more that $3. Now a T 2 in that condition has sold for over $3,000.
The other case is the clad quarter with its original two different proof only designs first used on the 1968 S. Both of this originally proof artwork only design shows up on circulation strikes in 1969 and 1970. In this case I can separate 3 piles out by touch alone. At this point in time I would say they have no respect whatsoever. Type B would be the most famous. The silver versions are becoming popular. The only two clad B's at auction this year (that I know of) did not sell during the auction. The latest book to mention them (Cherrypickers Guide) denies their existence. The Red Book and Breen recognizes them though. The second proof design has only been mentioned in my quarter articles and posts.
This is a poor photo, sorry. I love this coin and you are right, I've not come across another that will come close to this. I pulled this out of a roll several years ago, flipped it and eventually got it sent in. I'm into Jeffersons and have tucked away rolls of them. I'll get them out again soon though. This is a fascinating thread! Thanks
If you don't know where you're going, you'll end up somewhere else.
Iron horse, Here's my 81-P. Won it in an auction in the mid 1990's. Very satisfied with it, don't think I'll ever be able to upgrade.
Futhermore on the varieties, I have always read that diagnotics are better understood when an EDS example surfaces. Why would anyone try to do same with LDS examples and then say it's this or that when such worn details can easily be blamed on worn dies. This is not the way varieties are discovered.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
<< <i>The ponytail on coin 1 is more typical of what you see in the 77-81 obv with the hair sorta flowing into the collar. Ribbon and Stars are unusually weak. Coin 2 looks like an over polished die but the stars a more rounded and the folds are weak. A tricky example Coin 3 has sharp folds and stars. I suspect that in hand the differences are clearer. >>
Hello sir, If I'd have known they let your type in I'd have backed out the door
Seriously though. How's it going?
Got Val to get your Breen rebound yet?
I'll see your bunny with a pancake on his head and raise you a Siamese cat with a miniature pumpkin on his head.
You wouldn't believe how long it took to get him to sit still for this.
<< <i>Just found this in my bookmarks - has any interest been gained in these? >>
They still get discussed a little here and there but there are a couple things working against them.
The biggest thing is they aren't well known and none of them are very scarce. Ironically the date itself is hard to find but the percentage of mintage for each coins is fairly high.
The other thing is that so many of the date are not readily identifiable since they are such poor strikes. You can tell the difference even on the bad strikes once you know it but you need nice specimens to learn it.
In time these are likely to get more popular simply because the difference is huge and the total numbers are small even in aggregate.
Supposedly, the picture of the 1982P has the Obverse of 1981 but the star is much larger than what shows for the two prior years, 1980 and 1981. How that star became larger is the focus of this discussion. For those who need a refresher course in the following 8 varieties, all Breen #'s 2808 through 2817 were pairings made up between Obverse and Reverse dies of 1981 and 1982. We must also remember that the US Mint was in the process of making new master hubs for the year production of 1982. Because those hubs were still in the works, not ready for use, they resorted to using the old hubs or old master dies, possibly old working hubs of 1981 or 1980 to manufacture the very first run of 1982 nickels. Whatever hubs or dies they used, they obviously made some changes to the date and the star if we are to assume they made use of the old dies or hubs. And they may have moved the mint mark to a lower position to make room for the # two for the 1982 date. What they had left after the production of the 1981 nickels must have been pretty much worn down where there was very little detail left on the hubs and dies. If they used an old master die of 1981, it would have been a matter of filling in the one and mint mark and stamping a 2 where the 1 was and restamping the mint mark in a lower position because the #2 is wider than the #1. A larger star could have been stamped in over the smaller star. Working hubs would have been made from the newly fabricated master die and all the working dies were stamped from the working hubs. The thought has passed my mind about 3 paragraphs back just how many are actually reading all this and will post their thoughts? hmmm But getting back to the 3 photos, the letters are much thicker and the star is larger. Until someone gets the story from the mint, we can only assume what might have happened. I will post mare interesting pictures soon....maybe.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
Not only had I forgotten their existence again, I had forgotten that I had forgotten them 14 years ago.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
One thing I can agree with in that old thread-I don't understand why such a big deal is made for those Type 1 and Type 2 Mint marks of 1979 and 1981. To me they are very minor varieties that were hyped to death. But then, maybe I'm missing something.
@koynekwest said:
One thing I can agree with in that old thread-I don't understand why such a big deal is made for those Type 1 and Type 2 Mint marks of 1979 and 1981. To me they are very minor varieties that were hyped to death. But then, maybe I'm missing something.
I like the '81 type 2 since it's readily visible. The '79 types, while distinct, seem a little "manufactured". Lots of coins come with filled mint marks though it is less typical on proofs.
I blame the album manufacturers. If they put spaces in them for these varieties there would be a lot more interest. I feel the same way about 1974 Lincoln cents. How many collectors even know that there are large and small date varieties from all the mints at the time? Philadelphia, Denver and San Francisco all minted both large and small dates in 1974. Almost all Lincoln cent collectors (If not all Lincoln cent collectors for that matter) know about 1982 varieties, Why? Because album manufacturers include them in the albums. Why are 1974 small and large date cent spaces not in the albums? So blame Dansco, Whitman, and whoever else manufactures coin albums.
Coin references are also to blame. For instance, the 2022 Red Book has listings for all the 1982 cent varieties and the 1960 large and small dates. But why not include the 1974's? All common and easy to obtain.
When I was album collecting (Still am in some cases), if there was no space in the album, I did not need it.
Nickels in general have lost favor in the numismatic world! Right behinde them is varieties....
As both a nickel collector and a varieties collector I can asure you that both the 5 cent piece,and varieties in general the collecting world has just about forgotten.
Even well known varieties have lost value.
There just isn't the interest or hype to keep or start a new following.
Over the last 60 years I had assembled a Jefferson collection that had every mint state,proof and major Jefferson variety.
At one time having two complete ms and proof collections.
Over the last few years thinning out my holdings I can assure you that my statement is fact,as I have sold off a lot of my Jeffersons,and not at a profit, many times below cost,or known values.
As before ive posted I can see the Jefferson nickel, Roosevelt dimes, Franklin halfs all falling into a category that most would not have an interest in putting together a set.
Collecting coins isnt an investment other than your time,and education to understanding the hobby.
Over the last 60 years I have witnessed a lot within the hobby.
Thought certain series as well varieties have fell short on value and interest...The hobby will continue to change as I can personally see as older collectors pass on and their holding once again become available for the younger collectors to obtain.
I do believe that core series will remain just that.... for what ever reason.
I also see certain series to remain in coin Limbo where their values as well interest continue to spin in an uncertain future.
I have always enjoyed collecting Nickels.... and learned alot from doing so...one thing for sure they have fallen off the radar of many collectors. And I always advise YN's to start a nickel book...as it is a series that a newbie can see their collection grow and keep their interest in the hobby.
Comments
I start at the ribbon, work down the hair, and then to the legend.
Edited yet again..
for tpyos
"I am sorry you are unhappy with the care you recieved, is their anything I can do for you right now, how about some high speed lead therapy?" - A qoute from my wife's nursing forum
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them." – Thomas Jefferson
The pic below is the Rev. 1982
Someone else can elaborrate on the differences between the two reverses.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
For the reverse I look at the half moon window in the triangle area of the porch roof. If there is a "double" line in the window sill it’s a R82. If there is a single line in the window sill then it’s likely to be an O81. There is a difference in the step detail also. R82 steps are usually sharply struck while the R81 steps are more like the steps on the 1980PD/198P1D coins. My terminology is the steps are blurry. However, I have examples of late die state R82 coins and early die state R81 coins and the steps are "similar”.
The obverse is fairly easy for me to identify but I have much more problems with the reverse.
RayOverby
<< <i>The top pic is the Rev. of 1977.
The pic below is the Rev. 1982
Someone else can elaborrate on the differences between the two reverses.
Leo >>
Great pictures.
I find these to be dramatic differences that simply leap out at you. On most examples
of all the varieties the strike is mushy and indistinct so telling them apart is difficult.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
Cladking, you never bring less then your A game.. wonderfull and helpfull pics.
"I am sorry you are unhappy with the care you recieved, is their anything I can do for you right now, how about some high speed lead therapy?" - A qoute from my wife's nursing forum
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them." – Thomas Jefferson
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
Coin 2 looks like an over polished die but the stars a more rounded and the folds are weak. A tricky example
Coin 3 has sharp folds and stars.
I suspect that in hand the differences are clearer.
"I am sorry you are unhappy with the care you recieved, is their anything I can do for you right now, how about some high speed lead therapy?" - A qoute from my wife's nursing forum
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them." – Thomas Jefferson
<< <i>
Cladking, you never bring less then your A game.. wonderfull and helpfull pics. >>
Thankyou.
Happy Easter to those who observe this day.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
<< <i>Thankyou. But the pictures are LeotheLyon's. >>
Oppps, Sorry LeotheLyon.. Great pictures. Both the Obv and Rev sets.
"I am sorry you are unhappy with the care you recieved, is their anything I can do for you right now, how about some high speed lead therapy?" - A qoute from my wife's nursing forum
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them." – Thomas Jefferson
<< <i>The ponytail on coin 1 is more typical of what you see in the 77-81 obv with the hair sorta flowing into the collar. Ribbon and Stars are unusually weak.
Coin 2 looks like an over polished die but the stars a more rounded and the folds are weak. A tricky example
Coin 3 has sharp folds and stars.
I suspect that in hand the differences are clearer. >>
In an earlier post you made note of the ponytail and ribbon touching etc. so I put up the pics. 2 and 3 look similar which would support emzee's veiw that the B2814 he and I have are actually of the B2816 variety. But I'm still not certain with how most of the D minted coins have stronger strikes than the P minted dates so how do we tell the difference between the two obverses with the D- minted varieties.
I won't be able to respond anymore tonight so hash it out amongst yourselves and come up with some ideas. I also have close ups of the legend or letters of the obverses but they all look to have the same distances from the rim. However the reverse lettering shows the letters further away from the rim on the Rev. 1982 than the rev. of 1981.
Cheers, Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
<< <i>
<< <i>Thankyou. But the pictures are LeotheLyon's. >>
Oppps, Sorry LeotheLyon.. Great pictures. Both the Obv and Rev sets. >>
That's alright! Cladking needs some credit every once in awhile as well.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
Thanks again for the postings.
"I am sorry you are unhappy with the care you recieved, is their anything I can do for you right now, how about some high speed lead therapy?" - A qoute from my wife's nursing forum
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them." – Thomas Jefferson
<< <i>Man-o-man, this string has been one of the best! Hats off to those who put up some awesome pictures of these 1982 varieties. This is a great photo record for all of us to use. We are only missing photos of 2810, 2814 and 2815. I know we got a pretty good idea of the 81 vs 82 Obv's and Rev's, but it would be nice to have pictures of an actual coin of that variety. I would if I could, but.....I'm one of those guys still looking!
Thanks again for the postings. >>
i have an anacs65 5s #2810. it's in the bank box, but next time i'm there, i'll pull it out and make an attempt at some pics. i have some unattributed 82-d' s i'll have to take a look at soon as well.
coin #1-has a small one
coin #2&3 display a noteably larger star
I should have known my wife would see something there, she is rather brillant.. even if she did marry me.
"I am sorry you are unhappy with the care you recieved, is their anything I can do for you right now, how about some high speed lead therapy?" - A qoute from my wife's nursing forum
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them." – Thomas Jefferson
I was pleased by the step detail on a few of them, judging from the PCGS pops this is a tougher date to make there in FS. I found five out of the 40 coins with steps nice enough to merit a trip out west, with this coin being probably the best. There's a hit on the dome on the reverse and a few nicks behind TJ's ear but the fields are immaculate. I figure this should be a lock for a 65FS from PCGS.
BTW, these are among the first pics I've taken with my new camera, a FinePix A610. The upgrade became necessary when my wife dropped my trusty A210.
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
<< <i>
BTW, these are among the first pics I've taken with my new camera, a FinePix A610. The upgrade became necessary when my wife dropped my trusty A210.
Sean Reynolds >>
Great coin and really nice pics.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
ttt
<< <i>most people don't even know they exist >>
<< <i>Here are 3 obverse pics of the 1981-D, the 1982-D B2814 I have and a 1982-D B2817. Does anyone see any differences between the first two and last coin or the first coin and the last two coins?
Leo >>
Thanks guys! If you look at the above 3 pics, the only difference is that little irregular star on the 1981-D. Unless someone can show me a 1982-P or D with that smaller star then all Breen 2808's, 2809's, 2814's or 2815 varieties are nothing more than LDS obverse strikes of the new master hubs of 1982.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
I have had extensive experience in only two clad era coins. One case has finally achieved a great degree of popularity. In early 1972 I was fortunate enough to discover the Philly T 2 Ike with artwork matching the proof. This was before the T 3 was invented so I could separate them out by touch alone. I had some nice ones and soon realized that they were genuinely scarce.
I offered one to Heritage and was esentially told they wanted no clad trash.
I gave a prominent dealer a set of the 3 types on consignment. They were the best of the best. I would assume the T 2 would grade a PSGS MS 65. After a long period of no interest by anyone in my set , he went on to the ANA and gave my set of 3 to the local coin club. They gave it out as a door prize. By the standards of that time I was probably out not much more that $3. Now a T 2 in that condition has sold for over $3,000.
The other case is the clad quarter with its original two different proof only designs first used on the 1968 S. Both of this originally proof artwork only design shows up on circulation strikes in 1969 and 1970. In this case I can separate 3 piles out by touch alone. At this point in time I would say they have no respect whatsoever. Type B would be the most famous. The silver versions are becoming popular. The only two clad B's at auction this year (that I know of) did not sell during the auction. The latest book to mention them (Cherrypickers Guide) denies their existence. The Red Book and Breen recognizes them though. The second proof design has only been mentioned in my quarter articles and posts.
<< <i>'81-P not being as well struck >>
This is a poor photo, sorry. I love this coin and you are right, I've not come across another that will come close to this. I pulled this out of a roll several years ago, flipped it and eventually got it sent in. I'm into Jeffersons and have tucked away rolls of them. I'll get them out again soon though. This is a fascinating thread! Thanks
Nice contribution!
Iron horse,
Here's my 81-P. Won it in an auction in the mid 1990's. Very satisfied with it, don't think I'll ever be able to upgrade.
Futhermore on the varieties, I have always read that diagnotics are better understood when an EDS example surfaces. Why would anyone try to do same with LDS examples and then say it's this or that when such worn details can easily be blamed on worn dies.
This is not the way varieties are discovered.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
<< <i>Very satisfied with it, don't think I'll ever be able to upgrade >>
That '81-P sure is a beauty.
<< <i>The ponytail on coin 1 is more typical of what you see in the 77-81 obv with the hair sorta flowing into the collar. Ribbon and Stars are unusually weak.
Coin 2 looks like an over polished die but the stars a more rounded and the folds are weak. A tricky example
Coin 3 has sharp folds and stars.
I suspect that in hand the differences are clearer. >>
Hello sir,
If I'd have known they let your type in I'd have backed out the door
Seriously though. How's it going?
Got Val to get your Breen rebound yet?
You wouldn't believe how long it took to get him to sit still for this.
Hoard the keys.
I'd be willing to help you get some attention from PCGS, but I would obviously need some samples of each of these coins you refer to.
<< <i>Just found this in my bookmarks - has any interest been gained in these? >>
They still get discussed a little here and there but there are a couple things working against them.
The biggest thing is they aren't well known and none of them are very scarce. Ironically the date
itself is hard to find but the percentage of mintage for each coins is fairly high.
The other thing is that so many of the date are not readily identifiable since they are such poor
strikes. You can tell the difference even on the bad strikes once you know it but you need nice
specimens to learn it.
In time these are likely to get more popular simply because the difference is huge and the total
numbers are small even in aggregate.
That's right! I believe there's a new variety to be discovered here. The 1982/1981-P or possibly the 1982/1980-P.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
the two prior years, 1980 and 1981. How that star became larger is the focus of this discussion.
For those who need a refresher course in the following 8 varieties, all Breen #'s 2808 through 2817 were
pairings made up between Obverse and Reverse dies of 1981 and 1982.
We must also remember that the US Mint was in the process of making new master hubs for the year production
of 1982. Because those hubs were still in the works, not ready for use, they resorted to using the old hubs or old
master dies, possibly old working hubs of 1981 or 1980 to manufacture the very first run of 1982 nickels. Whatever
hubs or dies they used, they obviously made some changes to the date and the star if we are to assume they made
use of the old dies or hubs. And they may have moved the mint mark to a lower position to make room for the # two
for the 1982 date.
What they had left after the production of the 1981 nickels must have been pretty much worn down where there
was very little detail left on the hubs and dies.
If they used an old master die of 1981, it would have been a matter of filling in the one and mint mark and stamping
a 2 where the 1 was and restamping the mint mark in a lower position because the #2 is wider than the #1. A larger
star could have been stamped in over the smaller star. Working hubs would have been made from the newly
fabricated master die and all the working dies were stamped from the working hubs.
The thought has passed my mind about 3 paragraphs back just how many are actually reading all this and will
post their thoughts? hmmm
But getting back to the 3 photos, the letters are much thicker and the star is larger. Until someone gets the story
from the mint, we can only assume what might have happened. I will post mare interesting pictures soon....maybe.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
My first three Truviews. These are coins I have owned for 30+ years. All three came from the same group of BU 1982P 5c rolls.
OLD THREAD ALERT!
Not only had I forgotten their existence again, I had forgotten that I had forgotten them 14 years ago.
I can empathize with that!
But every time I find a 1982 I still check the variety.
One thing I can agree with in that old thread-I don't understand why such a big deal is made for those Type 1 and Type 2 Mint marks of 1979 and 1981. To me they are very minor varieties that were hyped to death. But then, maybe I'm missing something.
I like the '81 type 2 since it's readily visible. The '79 types, while distinct, seem a little "manufactured". Lots of coins come with filled mint marks though it is less typical on proofs.
I blame the album manufacturers. If they put spaces in them for these varieties there would be a lot more interest. I feel the same way about 1974 Lincoln cents. How many collectors even know that there are large and small date varieties from all the mints at the time? Philadelphia, Denver and San Francisco all minted both large and small dates in 1974. Almost all Lincoln cent collectors (If not all Lincoln cent collectors for that matter) know about 1982 varieties, Why? Because album manufacturers include them in the albums. Why are 1974 small and large date cent spaces not in the albums? So blame Dansco, Whitman, and whoever else manufactures coin albums.
Coin references are also to blame. For instance, the 2022 Red Book has listings for all the 1982 cent varieties and the 1960 large and small dates. But why not include the 1974's? All common and easy to obtain.
When I was album collecting (Still am in some cases), if there was no space in the album, I did not need it.
Nickels in general have lost favor in the numismatic world! Right behinde them is varieties....
As both a nickel collector and a varieties collector I can asure you that both the 5 cent piece,and varieties in general the collecting world has just about forgotten.
Even well known varieties have lost value.
There just isn't the interest or hype to keep or start a new following.
Over the last 60 years I had assembled a Jefferson collection that had every mint state,proof and major Jefferson variety.
At one time having two complete ms and proof collections.
Over the last few years thinning out my holdings I can assure you that my statement is fact,as I have sold off a lot of my Jeffersons,and not at a profit, many times below cost,or known values.
As before ive posted I can see the Jefferson nickel, Roosevelt dimes, Franklin halfs all falling into a category that most would not have an interest in putting together a set.
Collecting coins isnt an investment other than your time,and education to understanding the hobby.
Over the last 60 years I have witnessed a lot within the hobby.
Thought certain series as well varieties have fell short on value and interest...The hobby will continue to change as I can personally see as older collectors pass on and their holding once again become available for the younger collectors to obtain.
I do believe that core series will remain just that.... for what ever reason.
I also see certain series to remain in coin Limbo where their values as well interest continue to spin in an uncertain future.
I have always enjoyed collecting Nickels.... and learned alot from doing so...one thing for sure they have fallen off the radar of many collectors. And I always advise YN's to start a nickel book...as it is a series that a newbie can see their collection grow and keep their interest in the hobby.
"That's why I wander and follow La Vie Dansante"
Wow... Fourteen year old thread resurrection.... and still I have not become interested in these coins.
Cheers, RickO