Coin Dealers Don't Suck, LOL

NICK72 · March 10, 2007 12:08PM

I have a 2006-W uncirculated $50 gold eagle graded MS70 by PCGS. I decided to take it with me to a coin show today to see what I'd get offered for it. I wen to 2 dealers and that was enough. They each offered me $640, and $650 for it. I was appalled, I don't know why, but I was. I guess I have a lot of learning to do.

goose3 · March 10, 2007 12:11PM

they were buying the coin, not the holder.

my guess is that they don't deal in bullion other than simply as bullion.

HonoluluDude · March 10, 2007 12:11PM

Wow, that's insulting.

TomB · March 10, 2007 12:12PM

One thing to keep in mind is that not every dealer will be interested in each niche market. Therefore, while they may be knowledgeable to a degree on the prices, they may not have a ready buyer and might view it as something less liquid. Just a thought.

metallbarren · March 10, 2007 12:12PM

Did I miss something? Coin dealers suck because you lack the know how and negotiation skills to make a good deal... Sounds like someone sucks in that story but it isn't the coin dealers.

NICK72 · March 10, 2007 12:15PM

<< Did I miss something? Coin dealers suck because you lack the know how and negotiation skills to make a good deal... Sounds like someone sucks in that story but it isn't the coin dealers. >>

I did tell the first dealer I went to how much I wanted for it, he showed me to this other guy that offered me $650, well below what I would have liked. I figured with those offers for it, I didn't stand a chance of getting my price.

wondercoin · March 10, 2007 12:15PM

I pay $1,000 for that coin sight-unseen. You were obviously just showing it to the wrong buyers. Wondercoin.

garsmith · March 10, 2007 12:16PM

Coin dealers arn't in business to make you wealthy they're in business to make themselves wealthy!

HonoluluDude · March 10, 2007 12:16PM

<< Did I miss something? Coin dealers suck because you lack the know how and negotiation skills to make a good deal... Sounds like someone sucks in that story but it isn't the coin dealers.

>>

Then I guess I suck too. How exactly do you go about negotiating a good deal?

Pretend I'm the coin dealer... How would you convince me to pay a fair price for that coin?

NICK72 · March 10, 2007 12:16PM

<< Coin dealers arn't in business to make you wealthy they're in business to make themselves wealthy! >>

LOL! I learned that real fast today.

metallbarren · March 10, 2007 12:22PM

<< 

<< Did I miss something? Coin dealers suck because you lack the know how and negotiation skills to make a good deal... Sounds like someone sucks in that story but it isn't the coin dealers.

>>

Then I guess I suck too. How exactly do you go about negotiating a good deal?

Pretend I'm the coin dealer... How would you convince me to pay a fair price for that coin? >>

To be honest I was just poking fun at the guy. Given the hypothetical, from the tone of your post I already know not to offer my coin to you.

Coinlearner · March 10, 2007 12:22PM

Not the dealers. I have same coin and can sell easy . Do a little checking their going for 12- 1400-now.

NICK72 · March 10, 2007 12:24PM

<<

Not the dealers. I have same coin and can sell easy . Do a little checking their going for 12- 1400-now.

>>

To who? LOL!

RedTiger · March 10, 2007 12:28PM

<< 

<< Did I miss something? Coin dealers suck because you lack the know how and negotiation skills to make a good deal... Sounds like someone sucks in that story but it isn't the coin dealers.

>>

Then I guess I suck too. How exactly do you go about negotiating a good deal?

Pretend I'm the coin dealer... How would you convince me to pay a fair price for that coin? >>

With that coin there is no way. There is a niche market for that kind of coin and a dealer that doesn't usually sell to that market isn't going to offer much more than melt. If it were a clad coin condition rarity with no metal value, the offers likely would be more insulting (10% of current auction prices realized) or no offer at all.

There is no right or wrong with it. Most coin dealers have no idea what the value is for that kind of coin, and will only make a safe offer where the risk of loss is minimal. Those coins are not on the dealer price sheets and rarely cross the CCE. So unless a dealer takes the considerable time and effort to educate themselves (eg a specialist in that niche), they won't offer on those coins. Dealers that offer a lot for coins that they know little about usually are out of business after a few too many generous offers that turn into expensive mistakes.

RegistryCoin · March 10, 2007 12:28PM

I would suggest that you put yourself in the dealers' shoes and consider the market to which they are catering. If you see a case full of classic coins, you can probably assume that the buyers who frequent this seller are interested in classic coins, therefore the dealer sells these coins, and probably will not pay the highest price for a modern coin. If you want to sell a modern coin, search out a dealer whose buyers buy modern coins. You will probably find your best prices from those dealers whose buyers are interested in the coin you are marketing.

NICK72 · March 10, 2007 12:31PM

Good points guys, thanks.

And I seriously don't think coin dealers suck. They have a hard job to do, especially to make money.

Coinlearner · March 10, 2007 12:32PM

Been following teletrade-bay-end bids. the 69 going for 700-800. Think this topic belongs maybe over in different forum. Buy& Sell one

RegistryCoin · March 10, 2007 12:39PM

<< Think this topic belongs maybe over in different forum. >>

I think that it is best to learn the best way to sell a coin before offering it for sale. NICK72's experience, and subsequent Q & A may help him and perhaps others to sell their coins with greater success, which, I think, is a good topic for the coin forum.

NICK72 · March 10, 2007 12:42PM

To be honest this was a pretty small coin show, so my options we're limited. There we're maybe 20-25 tables, thats it. I looked for people that had gold coins.

ColonialCoinUnion · March 10, 2007 12:46PM

Had you offered this to us at a show, we would have told you that we don't normally handle this sort of material and we would have declined to make an offer. In fact, we wouldn't have had the slightest idea what it's worth.

I hope this doesn't mean we suck.

NICK72 · March 10, 2007 12:48PM

<< Had you offered this to us at a show, we would have told you that we don't normally handle this sort of material and we would have declined to make an offer. In fact, we wouldn't have had the slightest idea what it's worth.

I hope this doesn't mean we suck. >>

Relax man, I have a ton of respect for dealers and their knowledge of coins. I wished I was half as knowledgable as they are.

Myqqy · March 10, 2007 12:50PM

I hope this doesn't mean we suck.

Actually, it does. In case you weren't paying attention, high grade bullion is the only cool thing going in numismatics these days...

grabba · March 10, 2007 12:51PM

Looks like you might have nicked a nerve with this thread....lol

ArgentumRex · March 10, 2007 12:52PM

Wow, below melt...that's harsh

NICK72 · March 10, 2007 12:55PM

<< Looks like you might have nicked a nerve with this thread....lol >>

That wasn't my intention. I felt a little offended today with those offers of a perfect MS70 gold coin, I don't care how new it is, especially by PCGS. I thought maybe they we're trying to rip me off. Am I wrong? Maybe its because I'm younger and they don't think I know what I'm doing.

HonoluluDude · March 10, 2007 12:55PM

<< 

<< 

<< Did I miss something? Coin dealers suck because you lack the know how and negotiation skills to make a good deal... Sounds like someone sucks in that story but it isn't the coin dealers.

>>

Then I guess I suck too. How exactly do you go about negotiating a good deal?

Pretend I'm the coin dealer... How would you convince me to pay a fair price for that coin? >>

To be honest I was just poking fun at the guy. Given the hypothetical, from the tone of your post I already know not to offer my coin to you. >>

Ah c'mon man, I just wanted some enlightenment from an expert.

ColonialCoinUnion · March 10, 2007 1:01PM

<< Relax man >>

I am - right now I'm on my couch with my feet on the coffee table.

Cladiator · March 10, 2007 1:12PM

For something like that sell it on Teletrade or eBay. Those two venues will get you what you want out of it.

WinPitcher · March 10, 2007 1:15PM

I'll give you 660.00 for it.

I want an "I suck" award.

J/K

Steve

metallbarren · March 11, 2007 3:18AM

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< Did I miss something? Coin dealers suck because you lack the know how and negotiation skills to make a good deal... Sounds like someone sucks in that story but it isn't the coin dealers.

>>

Then I guess I suck too. How exactly do you go about negotiating a good deal?

Pretend I'm the coin dealer... How would you convince me to pay a fair price for that coin? >>

To be honest I was just poking fun at the guy. Given the hypothetical, from the tone of your post I already know not to offer my coin to you. >>

Ah c'mon man, I just wanted some enlightenment from an expert. >>

Wow look at me with egg all over my face. Once again I must of missed something. Somehow I missed the part where I claimed to be an expert and/or an excellent negotiator.

Your turn

JrGMan2004 · March 11, 2007 3:39AM

<< I pay $1,000 for that coin sight-unseen. You were obviously just showing it to the wrong buyers. Wondercoin. >>

Part of selling coins, is know where to sell. You're not going to do very well trying to sell a Gold Eagle to an Early Copper Dealer... or a 1795 Dollar to a Modern dealer... they don't regularly sell those coins, and probably don't have the clients to sell them too.

I occasionally get calls from people trying to sell me PCGS graded Moderns... I don't deal with PCGS moderns, so I can't make them a competitive offer for their coins. Am I trying to rip them off? No, I just don't know the PCGS Moderns market and have to take a guess, and also don't have the established customers for them... now, offer me an NGC graded coin, and I can make a competitive offer, since I know what those coins go for, what I can get for them, and what kind of profit margin I want to make on it.

Swampboy · March 11, 2007 3:58AM

<< I have a 2006-W uncirculated $50 gold eagle graded MS70 by PCGS. I decided to take it with me to a coin show today to see what I'd get offered for it. I wen to 2 dealers and that was enough. They each offered me $640, and $650 for it. I was appalled, I don't know why, but I was. I guess I have a lot of learning to do. >>

Nick72,

As far as I can see you achieved your stated goal for the show.
You mention that you wanted to see what you'd get offered for your 1 oz. gold bullion graded MS70.

3 things

1 - For reasons stated above, the two dealers you met had no interest in your coin other than its melt value.
A mistake would be assuming that their interest level in your piece is representative of "all" dealers.

2- unlike dealers here on the forum who feely share their knowledge of coins and how the process of buying and selling them works, it would be a mistake to assume that a random dealer at a random show would be compelled to be as …… forthcoming. I’ve learned this.

3- Independent of the value of any piece offered to them at a show, each dealer has to make a business decision as to which coins warrant tying capital up in.

-Swampboy

ricko · March 11, 2007 4:07AM

There is an important lesson here.. as I have learned.. I do not - ever - sell guns to a gun dealer... always below going prices... I would sell to a collector or someone who has a specific desire for the piece. The same goes for coins - with the exception of niche dealers - from whom you would also get less than you would realize from a collector. If you are selling, understand your market - and ply your wares accordingly. Cheers, RickO

66Tbird · March 11, 2007 4:34AM

<< There is an important lesson here.. as I have learned.. I do not - ever - sell guns to a gun dealer... always below going prices... I would sell to a collector or someone who has a specific desire for the piece. The same goes for coins - with the exception of niche dealers - from whom you would also get less than you would realize from a collector. If you are selling, understand your market - and ply your wares accordingly. Cheers, RickO >>

Perfectly put!!!!

Jcarney · March 11, 2007 4:44AM

<< they were buying the coin, not the holder.

my guess is that they don't deal in bullion other than simply as bullion. >>

Yeah, and I'm sure they would sell it that way.

FullStrike · March 11, 2007 4:44AM

<< Coin Dealers Don't Suck, LOL >>

You're right. They don't suck.

They Blow.

They Blow hot air when you buy from them. They blow hot air when you sell to them.

Obviously they thought you might be the typical unknowlegeable seller and they offered a straight bullion price for your coin.

Always remember the Coin Dealers motto ; If you didn't steal it, you weren't trying.

wondercoin · March 11, 2007 4:47AM

"I do not - ever - sell guns to a gun dealer... always below going prices... I would sell to a collector or someone who has a specific desire for the piece. The same goes for coins - with the exception of niche dealers - from whom you would also get less than you would realize from a collector. If you are selling, understand your market - and ply your wares accordingly. Cheers, RickO"

RickO - I almost agree. but, not 100%. For example, I have posted a buy on the BST board for 2004 (RAW) Proof Platinum sets for months now, non-stop, at $7,400 - $7,550/set and have purchased many sets. Yet, at the same time, I have watched collectors sell them on ebay the vast majority of time for significantly less dollars net. One sale comes to mind that FloridaBill did a thread on here - I seem to recall he bought his for $4,995 or $5,995 as I recall (an easy multi-thousand dollar profit simply flipping it to a dealer buy price) . On open bid, another raw set fetched around $7,100 (after fees around $6,900 or less). In fact, to net around my buy price, after ebay and/or paypal fees, a seller would need to get close to $8,000 gross to match what I am currently paying for the set. This is simply one example - I could write for another hour about current dealer buy prices I am aware of that are well in excess of typical collector (forum member) buy prices.

Wondercoin

BlindedByEgo · March 11, 2007 4:54AM

<< Been following teletrade-bay-end bids. the 69 going for 700-800. Think this topic belongs maybe over in different forum. Buy& Sell one

>>

I think you're wrong. This is an excellent discussion topic - coin dealers and niche markets.

FullStrike · March 11, 2007 4:55AM

Wondercoin

You obviously shouldn't couldn't and wouldn't wear the small dirty shoe I just threw out. My god man, your buy prices seem more than fair, especially comming from a dealer.

I think I may have to let go of my highly prejudiced view of ALL Coin Dealers - although it is painful to do so.

wondercoin · March 11, 2007 5:02AM

Thanks FullStrike - much appreciated.

Wondercoin

pbfloyd · March 11, 2007 5:13AM

Had you offered this to us at a show, we would have told you that we don't normally handle this sort of material and we would have declined to make an offer. In fact, we wouldn't have had the slightest idea what it's worth.

YEA RIGHT!......Dont let them con you nick, they know exactly how much they are worth. Most dealers lowball everybody.

ColonialCoinUnion · March 11, 2007 5:33AM

<< Had you offered this to us at a show, we would have told you that we don't normally handle this sort of material and we would have declined to make an offer. In fact, we wouldn't have had the slightest idea what it's worth.

YEA RIGHT!......Dont let them con you nick, they know exactly how much they are worth. Most dealers lowball everybody. >>

So your saying we would have made an offer? Really? How much would we have offered? Seriously - I want to know.

pbfloyd · March 11, 2007 5:37AM

20% back of melt .of course

ColonialCoinUnion · March 11, 2007 5:43AM

<< 20% back of melt .of course >>

Next time we get offered one, we're going to refer the seller to you since you have a much better handle on this than we do.

pbfloyd · March 11, 2007 6:01AM

relax man

Tonelover · March 11, 2007 6:02AM

You probably should have first asked around to find out which table belongs to the market maker in certified MS/PR 70 bullion. There had to be one there and that's where you likely would have received the fairest offer.

NICK72 · March 11, 2007 8:21AM

<< You probably should have first asked around to find out which table belongs to the market maker in certified MS/PR 70 bullion. There had to be one there and that's where you likely would have received the fairest offer. >>

Well the first person I went to specifically directed me to a guy who said would give me a good price, boy was he wrong, LOL. The guy had a lot of gold coins for sale so I'm sure he knew what he was doing. I will not do business with that person.

walkerman · March 11, 2007 8:46AM

Since I have no interest whatsoever, nada, bupkis, zilch, I would be like the dealer offering $650. Hmmm. Don't have any idea what this thing is worth--- can't get hurt too bad at melt-- maybe can flip it for $700. I might as well be buying Platypus eggs. Does this make an uninformed dealer who never should have been offered the coin in the first place a crook.
Nope! just a guy covering his rear end.
Seriously, whenever I'm asked to price an item like this I tell the seller that I don't handle such stuff and try to recommend them to someone who does. Dave W

The priceless ingredient in any coin transaction is the integrity of the dealer.
David J Weygant website: www.djwcoin.com

Once in a decade a truly great coin dealer appears.
While you're waiting may I recommend me?

The American republic will endure until politicians realize they can bribe the people with their own money.
Alexis de Tocqueville (1835)

pb2y · March 11, 2007 8:51AM

Coin collecting is a great hobby but a poor investment adventure.

LINK

Doogy · March 11, 2007 9:44AM

bullion is bullion to most people, including me. you have to stick with the niche market that actually "collects" Mint made bullion. I would have offered you melt value too, or maybe a tad over it.

Coin Dealers Don't Suck, LOL

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