Issue: Package arrives empty in my mailbox.
ReleaseTheHounds
Posts: 51
Thanks in advance for any info on my matter.
I made a coin purchase on eBay Feb 16th. The item had not arrived after 10 days or so, so I asked the buyer when it was sent. He said it should have gotten to me by then so we were both a little worried about it.
On Friday March 3rd the Priority Mailer was in my mailbox at home, empty, ripped out the back. It was stamped as arriving empty at a major mail hub about 200 miles from me.
I paid for this purchase with paypal. I did not purchase insurance for the item as I understand it is the seller's responsibility to deliver the goods in tact.
The seller says I'm out of luck since it's not insured. I've filed a claim with paypal as of today.
What's the next step I should take and what's the most likely outcome to this situation?
I know there are people on here with a plethora of paypal experience.
Thanks again.
I made a coin purchase on eBay Feb 16th. The item had not arrived after 10 days or so, so I asked the buyer when it was sent. He said it should have gotten to me by then so we were both a little worried about it.
On Friday March 3rd the Priority Mailer was in my mailbox at home, empty, ripped out the back. It was stamped as arriving empty at a major mail hub about 200 miles from me.
I paid for this purchase with paypal. I did not purchase insurance for the item as I understand it is the seller's responsibility to deliver the goods in tact.
The seller says I'm out of luck since it's not insured. I've filed a claim with paypal as of today.
What's the next step I should take and what's the most likely outcome to this situation?
I know there are people on here with a plethora of paypal experience.
Thanks again.
0
Comments
Sounds like you're fine. The seller is the one ot of luck.
BTW, does the seller use a return address like "John's Super-valuable Coins" ?
--Jerry
JT
<< <i>I think you're wrong on this one. The seller's liable if the package doesn't arrive. It did, but it arrived damaged. You should have bought insurance, but you declined. Sorry to say, but your request is unreasonable, and posting it here won't make you look good. I'd cancel the claim, apologize profusely, and learn your lesson. >>
Insurance protects the seller. If you have Post office documentation that it arrived empty half way, the seller didn't deliver the goods. As a seller, I would refund. --Jerry
<< <i>I think you're wrong on this one. The seller's liable if the package doesn't arrive. It did, but it arrived damaged. You should have bought insurance, but you declined. Sorry to say, but your request is unreasonable, and posting it here won't make you look good. I'd cancel the claim, apologize profusely, and learn your lesson. >>
I disagree. Seller is responsible to deliver promised goods or refund buyer's payment, period. Seller made a mistake by making insurance optional and then not taking insurance out on the shipment. The buyer here should give paypal a chance to fix it and do the same with the credit card company that backed the paypal payment (assumption on my part) if paypal doesn't square this away.
Thanks for your post though.
San Diego, CA
I started on my ebay page by clicking the "report item not delivered" link, after a couple of pages it took me to paypal since I paid through them. Now it's wait and see what happens.
To answer an early question, the dollar amount is slightly more than $100. Not big buck by any means, but still enough to file this claim in my opinion.
Good Luck!!! Let us know how the Paypal thing works out.
So I have changed my auctions to include insurance in shipping fees.
As a buyer I factor in to my bid what shipping/insurance would cost me.
Rookie Joe
<< <i>After banting this issue over and over guided by comments made here I have come to the conclusion that it is the Seller's responsibility to deliver the item and he buyer is responsible to pay.
So I have changed my auctions to include insurance in shipping fees.
As a buyer I factor in to my bid what shipping/insurance would cost me.
Rookie Joe >>
I did the same thing as a seller awhile ago (after reading enough horror stories on the board here).
On very minor items, I may put the "optional" for insurance, if I think the added cost may scare away bidders on low priced items, but then, if I do that, I do it with "self-insurance"....ie, I either pay for the USPS insurance or prepare myself to refund the money out of my own pocket if it doesn't arrive for the buyer.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
All The Way - And Then Some
I collect Modern Commemoratives
and anything Franklin.
Why should ebay sellers be any different? If you pay by paypal that old saying "sorry you did not buy insurance' will not hold up.
Insurance protects the seller, not the buyer. In my auctions I will say Insurance is optional. If they kick in i'll use that dough. If they do not you bet i spring for it.
Steve
edited typo
<< <i>After banting this issue over and over guided by comments made here I have come to the conclusion that it is the Seller's responsibility to deliver the item and he buyer is responsible to pay.
So I have changed my auctions to include insurance in shipping fees.
As a buyer I factor in to my bid what shipping/insurance would cost me.
Rookie Joe >>
I've read probably 100 of these threads in the year I've been registered, and the few I lurked. 95% of them end up with the same conclusion. Almost without fail, the seller gets charged back/ruled against/made to reimburse as it is their responsibility to get the goods to the buyer. Insurance covers the seller, and protects the seller and 99% of the sellers that post these scenarios make their final post similar to yours that they will require insurance on everything in the future.
I am 99.9% sure that paypal will reimburse the buyer here.
"You Suck Award" - February, 2015
Discoverer of 1919 Mercury Dime DDO - FS-101
<< <i>Rodius
I started on my ebay page by clicking the "report item not delivered" link, after a couple of pages it took me to paypal since I paid through them. Now it's wait and see what happens.
To answer an early question, the dollar amount is slightly more than $100. Not big buck by any means, but still enough to file this claim in my opinion. >>
I was on the wrong end of this dipute once...I mailed out a USPS priority package on 11/28 and I did not insure (he did not purchase the insurance) but for the $2.30 I should have protected myself. After two weeks he called about the package...I had a tracking number because I shipped through paypal. He opened a dispute through paypal and they immediatly put a hold on my funds. Two days before the funds were to be transfered back to his account the package arrived intact.
The point is, paypal and Ebay does not screw around with the buyer. I am sure once his funds are put on hold at paypal, you may see a different story.
Good luck and keep on top of this. (CHECK ON THIS DAILY)
<< <i> It was stamped as arriving empty at a major mail hub about 200 miles from me.
>>
What more could you need to prove that the item was not delivered!!
What does insurance have to do with it??
Good grief.
Get yer money back and move along.....
The bottom line is if the seller is a dealer, he has responsibility to delver to you intact> Even if you don't "elect" to buy insurance, it's his responsibility. If the seller just someone selling a few tiems, and does not make a substantial part of his income selling these, you are responsible for declining insurance.
To avoid these kinds of problems, when I sell, I include insurance in the shipping fee. The buyer doesn't have an option to decline it.
<< <i>
<< <i>After banting this issue over and over guided by comments made here I have come to the conclusion that it is the Seller's responsibility to deliver the item and he buyer is responsible to pay.
So I have changed my auctions to include insurance in shipping fees.
As a buyer I factor in to my bid what shipping/insurance would cost me.
Rookie Joe >>
I did the same thing as a seller awhile ago (after reading enough horror stories on the board here).
On very minor items, I may put the "optional" for insurance, if I think the added cost may scare away bidders on low priced items, but then, if I do that, I do it with "self-insurance"....ie, I either pay for the USPS insurance or prepare myself to refund the money out of my own pocket if it doesn't arrive for the buyer. >>
Ditto!!!!!!
Steve
<< <i>As usual, I'm a bit confused. How does insurance protect the seller? The seller is holding the money. The buyer doesn't have the coin or the money. >>
Right. So since the buyer has nothing, the honest seller must refund. Perhaps we should say that insurance protects the honest seller. --Jerry
<< <i>I did not purchase insurance for the item as I understand it is the seller's responsibility to deliver the goods in tact. >>
You deliberately declined to purchase insurance because you knew you could stick it to the seller if the package got lost or damaged. You're scum.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>
<< <i>As usual, I'm a bit confused. How does insurance protect the seller? The seller is holding the money. The buyer doesn't have the coin or the money. >>
Right. So since the buyer has nothing, the honest seller must refund. Perhaps we should say that insurance protects the honest seller. --Jerry >>
I think one point is really being missed here. Insurance would not even help the seller in this case. The post office will do their own investigation as well and part of the terms of insurance is that the packages is properly prepared. In this case it sounds like it was poorly packaged and the would decline to pay the insurance.
Totally the sellers fault. He should know how to properly package a coin.
<< <i>In this case it sounds like it was poorly packaged and the would decline to pay the insurance. >>
Where did you get that?
Russ, NCNE
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>The UCC regulates this and it has been discussed by Armen Vartian, the collectibles attonrey, several times in Coin World.
The bottom line is if the seller is a dealer, he has responsibility to delver to you intact> Even if you don't "elect" to buy insurance, it's his responsibility. >>
Following this line of thinking, buyers could "elect" to not pay the shipping charge, too.
I believe there are multiple scenarios possible here, and not all of them would have the same resolution. IANAL, but I can understand a reasonable expectation on the part of the buyer that he will receive either the item or reimbursement in the event of loss if there is no mention of the issue of insurance throughout the transaction.
If, however, an eBay seller states in his terms that insurance is optional and the responsibility of the buyer, it would seem to me that a buyer (knowing this at the time he makes his bid) who opts out of insurance has a moral obligation to accept the risk of loss regardless of whatever policies eBay or PayPal might have in place which would allow him to be otherwise refunded.
But then, that's just me...
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>If, however, an eBay seller states in his terms that insurance is optional and the responsibility of the buyer, it would seem to me that a buyer (knowing this at the time he makes his bid) who opts out of insurance has a moral obligation to accept the risk of loss regardless of whatever policies eBay or PayPal might have in place which would allow him to be otherwise refunded. >>
Yea, verily. This is a perfect example of the difference between ethics and rules.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>
<< <i>In this case it sounds like it was poorly packaged and the would decline to pay the insurance. >>
Where did you get that?
Russ, NCNE >>
Guess work based on the first post.
<< <i>The seller nor the buyer is the blame here. There is a thief working in the postal service somewhere between the buyer and the seller and the United States Postal Service is to blame. Insurance protects us from Postal Employees... imagine that
How do you know the coin was stolen? You have no idea how the coin was packaged. Many people don't use any common sense when sending items.
<< <i><< In this case it sounds like it was poorly packaged and the would decline to pay the insurance. >>
Where did you get that?
Russ, NCNE >>
Guess work based on the first post. >>
I don't see anything in the first post that indicates it was poorly packaged. In fact, the post indicates it was packaged with USPS materials.
Russ, NCNE
AL
<< <i>I bought a coin on ebay same thing ripped package coin missing ,contacted seller he say's he needs ripped package back so he can file claim,I mail it to him ,he negs me saying I received coin and he has proof. >>
But in this case there is PROOF that the buyer received an EMPTY package, not just ripped.
THERE WAS NOTHING IN THE PACKAGE.
I repeat, good grief.....
Do not buy or sell an item without insurance unless you will take the responsibility for the lost or damaged item.
In my thinking it is just not worth the aggravation.
Rookie Joe
I emailed the seller, with the information that the package arrived, complaining of the poor packaging, and saying how lucky I was, as I bought the lot for one coin in particular which DID arrive..... but not making too much of an issue, but advising the seller that he should try to ensure that his packages are more securely packed in the future.....
The seller acknowledged this fact and reimbursed me for the ENTIRE packet as he felt that it was his fault..... I tried to return it to him as I only wanted the one coin, which was among the 3 that arrived, but he wouldn't hear of it.....
I was lucky in that I had an honorable seller.....
Another time I had a SECURELY WRAPPED envelope, shipped internationally "signed for", with a rare coin inside, arrive 7 MONTHS after it was mailed, in a Postal Body Bag....... Fortunately the coin was still inside....... I informed the seller who had already made good on it and rearranged repayment for the coin......
I once shipped something by UPS and received a notice from UPS that the package was at their depot but was open and empty..... I immediately contacted the buyer, sent him copies and links to UPS, so he would know that I was not trying to renege on the deal, and asked him to let me know if it ever did turn up ( I had it in another sealed envelope with his address on it, and placed that in the UPS envelope).... I also filed a claim with UPS.... Before I received the settlement from UPS, I received notification from both UPS and the BUYER, that the contents had been found and had been delivered........
Point being, be honest in your assessment of the situation..... If you TRULY believe it was the SHIPPERS fault (poor packaging), then you should pursue the matter.... If you can honestly acknowledge that the shipper sealed it securely and the dage was either from a postal machine or other 3rd party damage (theft???), then the seller did his share, you declined insurance, and you should eat the loss or at least pursue your problem with the post office (which will get you nowhere)..... Just be fair and just in your assessment before you hit the poor guy with a negative and/or billback for something over which he had no control.....
<< <i>That reminds me. Marty hosed me out of an extra 5c on insurance for the last coin I bought from him. There had better be an extra cat butt sticker on this one.
Russ, NCNE >>
Trust me, you wish it was only a cat butt sticker!!
<< <i>
<< <i><< In this case it sounds like it was poorly packaged and the would decline to pay the insurance. >>
Where did you get that?
Russ, NCNE >>
Guess work based on the first post. >>
I don't see anything in the first post that indicates it was poorly packaged. In fact, the post indicates it was packaged with USPS materials.
Russ, NCNE >>
Russ, that depends. If it was a loose slab in a Priority envelope it would still be poorly packaged.
If i have an item on the Bay and make insurance optional and the buyer dont pay i pay it myself and eat it !
Pay Pal will side with the buyer everytime !
<< <i>
<< <i>That reminds me. Marty hosed me out of an extra 5c on insurance for the last coin I bought from him. There had better be an extra cat butt sticker on this one.
Russ, NCNE >>
Trust me, you wish it was only a cat butt sticker!! >>
You did not send him an envelope with a cat skid mark on it did you??