? The Real reason PCGS doesn't want to grade W-SAE
ABSilvercoins
Posts: 309
IMHO Obviously, PCGS doesn't WANT to grade the W-mint SAEs.
The W-SAE coins are made from the same material, by the same people, at the same place as the coins PCGS grades already. So WHY not grade them?
Here's a theory: The W-SAE coins are TOO GOOD. PCGS would have to give out so many MS-70's that their credibility would be seriously eroded, and the value of their service degraded.
Explanation:
The burnished blanks and special handling of those W-SAEs are unique in the history of US coinage. PROOFs are handled with extraordinary amount of care. But, for the first time, a non-proof coin is given the white-glove treatment. And it has a surface that is EASY to make perfectly and will not easily show its defects. (UNLIKE a proof.)
The SATIN MINT SETS would have the same quality, except those coins are treated like truckloads of gravel after thay are minted, before being packaged. The Satin mint sets I have seen all are covered with handling rash. If the mint used the same 'Shovel & Bucket' handling on the W-SAEs, PCGS would probably be happy as a lark to grade them.
Just a theory. Have fun debunking... I'll gladly change my mind to a better idea.
The W-SAE coins are made from the same material, by the same people, at the same place as the coins PCGS grades already. So WHY not grade them?
Here's a theory: The W-SAE coins are TOO GOOD. PCGS would have to give out so many MS-70's that their credibility would be seriously eroded, and the value of their service degraded.
Explanation:
The burnished blanks and special handling of those W-SAEs are unique in the history of US coinage. PROOFs are handled with extraordinary amount of care. But, for the first time, a non-proof coin is given the white-glove treatment. And it has a surface that is EASY to make perfectly and will not easily show its defects. (UNLIKE a proof.)
The SATIN MINT SETS would have the same quality, except those coins are treated like truckloads of gravel after thay are minted, before being packaged. The Satin mint sets I have seen all are covered with handling rash. If the mint used the same 'Shovel & Bucket' handling on the W-SAEs, PCGS would probably be happy as a lark to grade them.
Just a theory. Have fun debunking... I'll gladly change my mind to a better idea.
//ab
0
Comments
Dennis
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Where is the problem?
I agree that the guarantee PCGS provides makes them really stay on the conservative side. They are a great outfit with the highest possible standards.
But there are an awful lot of other problems any/all coins can have. How does PCGS grade ANY coins and give a guarantee? I have a couple of older proofs where 'copper spots' have 'bled' up to the surface, for instance. (Forgive my amateur description.)
I have several proofs, still in the OGP which have milky-looking white spots. I have NO IDEA if it is the same problem as the W-SAEs.
Could someone post a good picture of a W ASE with the milk spots?
TIA
Oops. Sorry, I thought I read it here.
Perhaps PCGS refuses to grant a 70 to any 2006 w eagles? Are they not 'officially' on record for this subject? Is all of this mere speculation?
Thanks.
Now I understand your post... not that they don't want to grade them... they won't give an MS70.
Perhaps next year PCGS will charge a regrading, special issue and designation review fees to upgrade to a 70!!..bend over.
Saying that they will not give a 70 to a certain coin issue is a lot like saying 'Don't bother submitting those coins to us.'
It is a big disappointment to me, I bought quite a few W's with the intention of selling the 70s. (I was impressed by how perfect they all look, and anticipated a large percentage of 70 grades.) Of all the ones that I have, there is not a single defect on any of them that my amateur eyes can see.
IMHO PCGS is so far ahead of all their competition, the PCGS MS69 is equivalent to AnyoneElse MS70.
I'm satisfied in knowing that they are the highest grade given by PCGS.
First of all, can you really tell the difference between an MS69 and an MS70? Maybe so, I can't.
Second, these coins are handled with the utmost care, so shouldn't most or all of them be perfect or near perfect? Doesn't that take the fun out of having "the perfect coin?"
Third, and I don't have access to the pop report right now, but are there any SAE's graded below MS68? What's the lure in collecting/buying these things?
Just curious.
US and British coin collector, and creator of The Ultimate Chuck E. Cheese's and Showbiz Pizza Place Token & Ticket Guide
Kip
Collectors LIKE having the HIGHEST designation for a graded item. And are willing to pay a premium for the priviledge.
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<< <i>It is a big disappointment to me, I bought quite a few W's with the intention of selling the 70s. >>
PCGS's policy of not granting the MS70 grade pre-existed the debut of the the 2006-W mint coins. Perhaps you should have checked before banking on all that profit.
Russ, NCNE
Not 'it' rather 'them' LOTS of them.
What other coin struck by the US mint does PCGS take the stance: 'even if it is a 70, we will only grade it 69?'
They shouldn't give it a 69 either. They should grade them BU-GEM like those on the infomercial coin shows. But it would be meaningless.
I still have not seen a milk spot. Can someone post a picture?
Thanks!
>>>>>>> PCGS's policy of not granting the MS70 grade pre-existed the debut of the the 2006-W mint coins. Perhaps you should have checked before banking on all that profit.
I didn't know that, and you are absolutely correct.
Thanks!
<< <i>What other coin struck by the US mint does PCGS take the stance: 'even if it is a 70, we will only grade it 69?' >>
Any and all business strike SAE's. You cannot fault PCGS for this action since these coins are know for developing milk spots, and they are on the hook for the grade guarantee.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>I still have not seen a milk spot. Can someone post a picture? >>
PCGS, ANACS, & NGC Certified Coins on My Website.
Russ, NCNE
Here's a thread on the Q & A.
The name is LEE!
There are a few bullion silver eagles with a 70. I checked the website and there are 12 out of ~289,000.
The fact that PCGS announced 'no 70's' prior to the release of the coin is very significant. It does cast a different light on their decision.
I wonder how they knew there would be milk spots on the Ws and not on the proofs, for instance?
Thanks!
<< <i>I wonder how they knew there would be milk spots on the Ws and not on the proofs, for instance? >>
Proof planchets are manufactured differently than any other type of blank. All the business strikes are the same metal on the surface.
<< <i>I am very sorry if I offend anyone, but it is hard for me to understand why someone would pay a premium for an MS70 bullion coin anyway.
First of all, can you really tell the difference between an MS69 and an MS70? Maybe so, I can't.
Second, these coins are handled with the utmost care, so shouldn't most or all of them be perfect or near perfect? Doesn't that take the fun out of having "the perfect coin?"
Third, and I don't have access to the pop report right now, but are there any SAE's graded below MS68? What's the lure in collecting/buying these things?
Just curious. >>
Here's the pop report. In fact, there are no unc-w's graded below MS68. (Unmintmarked bullion shown for comparison.)
9981 2006 $1 Eagle MS 1 8 26 168 140,186 140,389
9996 2006-W $1 Eagle MS 62 1,304 1,366
89990 2006-W $1 Eagle-20th Anniversary MS 540 6,071 6,611
The 1 in the far left for the unmintmarked coin was an MS64, and the 8 were 66s. It appears that less than 5% to 10% unc-ws get MS-68s.
My answer to the question "can you really tell a difference between MS69 and MS70?" would be "sometimes." So I would inspect MS69s and buy one in which I could not detect any flaws. I don't yet have an interest in registry sets.
<< <i>There are a few bullion silver eagles with a 70. I checked the website and there are 12 out of ~289,000.
The fact that PCGS announced 'no 70's' prior to the release of the coin is very significant. It does cast a different light on their decision.
I wonder how they knew there would be milk spots on the Ws and not on the proofs, for instance? >>
They announced it after they started getting inundated with coins returned for spotting. This was well before the release of the 2006 coins, so it doesn't "cast a different light" on anything. They know it's not much of an issue with the proofs because they aren't being returned by the truckload like the business strikes.
Russ, NCNE
Of course it does. Of course it does. It casts a different light, it makes PCGS look professional as always, it changes the way people view the issue ---- especially those who were not in on the details from the start. I read in another thread in this forum that spotting was NOT an issue with these coins. I was also under the impression that the burnished planchets were not the same as the bullion coins.
You all have helped me tremendously. I have a lot to learn and have thrown out a pretty hairbrained theory without getting pounded by people wanting to make someone feel stupid.
THANKS! The info in this forum is extremely valuable.
.
<< <i>
<< <i>What other coin struck by the US mint does PCGS take the stance: 'even if it is a 70, we will only grade it 69?' >>
Any and all business strike SAE's. You cannot fault PCGS for this action since these coins are know for developing milk spots, and they are on the hook for the grade guarantee.
Russ, NCNE >>
I've said this before and will say it again. They should give ANY coin that deserves a 70 grade -- that grade. They should mark the coin as a "No guarantee" coin, perhaps with a special note on the holder. If the coin is a 70 it should be graded a 70.
Just my opinion.
Perhaps a better approach would be special designation 69's that after a 5 year period with no spotting could be designated 70's. Of course this is REALLY far fetched and a logistical nightmare so I won't count on it occuring.
Fact is, if NGC backed their grades with market value buy back's, they'd drop those SAE 70's too.
The name is LEE!