I fell for it again. Unopened Proof sets

Rodius · February 3, 2007 1:42PM

I don't know why I keep falling for the "unopened" proof set scam.
In the past I have done okay with these...

1964 Accented Hair half graded PR66Cam
1963 Half PR68Cam
1961 Nickel PR69DCAM
1963 Quarter PR66DCAM

And a lot of unusually toned coins.

I just won a 1958 unopened for $65 and there is nothing great or bad about it. Just 5 very shiny brilliant proofs. I wish I could stop falling for this.

numobri · February 3, 2007 1:56PM

I hear ya,

Done it a few times myself.

Brian

claychaser · February 3, 2007 2:02PM

Hey, it beats the odds on the lottery!

ColonialCoinUnion · February 3, 2007 10:34PM

I'm not sure I understand -

Unless this wasn't truly 'unopened' when you received, then I'm not sure what you 'fell for'.

And wouldn't the expectation be that in any unopened set the coins inside might be good, bad or indifferent?

jmski52 · February 3, 2007 11:16PM

I really don't understand either. What should have been in there?

mrpaseo · February 3, 2007 11:22PM

I believe what he means is the lottery, when you buy a set your hoping for a DCAM or CAM, your hoping for a perfect 70 or at least a 69 or three... He fell for the lure of the chance... the gamble

jmski52 · February 3, 2007 11:25PM

Did we ever establish for certain that "sealed envelope" is the same as "unsearched"?

fcloud · February 3, 2007 11:28PM

I read many many years ago that anyone can seal a set and say it is unopened (I think I read it in Numismatic News), and I have never purchased a set because it was unopened. As many of you know the mint can and does make mistakes. How would you feel if the unopened set you purchased had no half dollar, but it had two mint logos instead. Would you go back to the seller? If it is unopened and not inspected you just bought yourself a nice pair of mint logos.

100proof1957 · February 3, 2007 11:36PM

Just my HO,if the ebay pix shows a nice crisp envelope you can be 99.9 % sure its a reproduction,if its all dog eared you might be ok,but ill bet most of the late 50's set's have been searched and re-sealed.

check your POP's

1957 Lincoln PR 68 CAM is what,15 ?

Thats out of 1,247,942 minted 50 yrs ago and PCGS has been around 20 of those,odds of finding the killer CAMS in an un-opened set from the 50's is virtually nil.

mrpaseo · February 3, 2007 11:41PM

<< Just my HO,if the ebay pix shows a nice crisp envelope you can be 99.9 % sure its a reproduction,if its all dog eared you might be ok,but ill bet most of the late 50's set's have been searched and re-sealed.

check your POP's

1957 Lincoln PR 68 CAM is what,15 ?

Thats out of 1,247,942 minted 50 yrs ago and PCGS has been around 20 of those,odds of finding the killer CAMS in an un-opened set from the 50's is virtually nil. >>

You smart

100proof1957 · February 4, 2007 12:21AM

Not to mention the fact that the POP's are likely skewed on that coin because of crack out's

IE: Looking for the non-extant 69 CAM or perhaps even a 67 or 68 DCAM

My guess is the true pop is 9-11 and i know where 5 of them are.

The next one "MADE" will likely be a crackout and not a fresh coin.

Same scenario with the Jefferson !

I always wanted to do a destructive testing survey on a 57 Proof set to determine the Rockwell hardness of the coins to try and hypothisize the reason for the dearth of Cam Lincolns and Jeffs vis a vis the abundance of CAM Roosies,Washingtons, and Franklins

I suspect the Silver is much softer than the former so the dies last longer and the quality of the strike is more distinct for a longer production run,not to mention the .25 and .50 dies are much larger and therefore easier to work on.

LickThoseStamps · February 4, 2007 12:56AM

Make your own unopened proof sets

LickThoseStamps · February 4, 2007 1:03AM

Or better yet if you have a complete run of unopened proof sets you want to sell

ricko · February 4, 2007 2:07AM

The only 'unopened' packages I have ever purchased, were GSA Dollars. Never did get a key date... but the anticipation was always there. Cheers, RickO

CarlWohlforth · February 4, 2007 2:33AM

<<1961 Nickel PR69DCAM>>

That is why you keep falling for it! Even if the sets are truly unopened it is unlikely you would ever find another '61 Jeff that grades so high!

Russ · February 4, 2007 3:43AM

<< I just won a 1958 unopened for $65 and there is nothing great or bad about it. Just 5 very shiny brilliant proofs. >>

As long as you're paying such a small premium, you can't get hurt too bad.

<< Unless this wasn't truly 'unopened' when you received, then I'm not sure what you 'fell for'. >>

On eBay, the vast majority of the "mint sealed" sets have been picked over and resealed.

Russ, NCNE

RichieURich · February 4, 2007 3:57AM

<< On eBay, the vast majority of the "mint sealed" sets have been picked over and resealed.

Russ, NCNE >>

I want to amplify what Russ is saying here. Unless you are sure as to the set's history, assume it has been examined and resealed. The so-called "unopened" sets go for a premium that is more than the appx. $1 cost to buy a new envelope!

segoja · February 4, 2007 4:33AM

Do some math. Take your premium paid for sealed sets and get that total, add the grading fees.

Compare it to how much the few CAM's DCAM's are worth.

If the premuims + grading fees are more, you are better off buying already slabbed coins.

If there was real value inside sealed sets, do you think Val Webb would be selling sealed sets (and his are real BTW) on E-Bay???

I had a customer that was prud of a 1955 sealed set he bought at auction. I asked him why he bought aftermarket envelopes. He asked me how I knew..told him it was too crips, wrong color and the print was too nice. he decided to open it in front of me....1/2 a 1984 Mint Set worth maybe $3. Bet he wished he bought opened sets.

Russ · February 4, 2007 4:47AM

<< If there was real value inside sealed sets, do you think Val Webb would be selling sealed sets (and his are real BTW) on E-Bay??? >>

His are real, but you can bet your ass that when he buys a sealed box he's spot checking a few sets before he sells the rest.

Russ, NCNE

Rodius · February 4, 2007 6:52AM

<< Or better yet if you have a complete run of unopened proof sets you want to sell >>

Un freakin' believable. New envelopes for your old proof sets. OMG.

I guess they have thought of everything. Thanks for the great advise everyone. Including this thread

brenda · February 4, 2007 8:38AM

I like the flat pack proof sets also. I have the complete run from 1955 (flat)- 1964 with many duplicates. Some of the envelopes are old, wrinkled, faded colors, and have minor writting like prices or names on them. I was getting doubles of these sets in search of better envelopes, but after reading this, I think i`m better off with the old and worn envelopes, this way you know they are authentic. Also, unopened sets from 1958-1964 will have a little insert from the mint on green or pink paper saying how the mint carefully inspected the coins and if there appears to be a scratch it is obviously on the polyethylene holder.

Russ · February 4, 2007 8:49AM

The funniest "mint sealed" set I bought was one that, when I opened it, contained in addition to the coins the original purchase receipt and newspaper ad from the coin shop where the guy had bought it back in 1964.

Russ, NCNE

I fell for it again. Unopened Proof sets

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