What good is a safe if it can be moved?

Michigan · January 31, 2007 9:55PM

BURGLARY: A 55-year-old South Point area man reported Friday someone and stole a fireproof safe valued at $200 and containing $2,500 in old coins from his residence in Fayette Township along with some prescription medication.

PerryHall · January 31, 2007 10:00PM

Most safes have holes on the inside so they can be bolted to the floor.

morgansforever · January 31, 2007 10:13PM

The method I use is the two safe method. One safe is in plain site, filled with rocks, the other is hidden
bolted to the foundation. If I'm ever robbed hopefully the thieves go for the bait.
Good idea or not?

sweetwilliet · January 31, 2007 10:18PM

If the safe was valued at $200, it was too easy to lift. The safes that weigh around 1000 pounds, cost around $1000. They are impossible to lift, if someone wanted to steal one, they would need a motorized dolley of some sort, assuming it wasn't bolted to the ground. Anybody can pick up one of those small safes and carry it to a location to break it open.

thebestMAX · January 31, 2007 10:26PM

Mine is bolted to the concrete floor with a big sign on it stating "Safe Is Bolted To Concrete Floor".
Now, assuming they can read (and read English) it may deter the non Professional hoods.

Tyler1924S · January 31, 2007 10:27PM

They took his coins AND his pills. If that isn't the nightmare of all nightmares...

BigRed · January 31, 2007 10:33PM

Well, he had his coins safe from a fire but not a thief.

Preussen · January 31, 2007 10:44PM

That's definitely very sad

but as already stated, what good is a safe that can be carried away? - Preussen

MadMonk · January 31, 2007 10:50PM

THE ONLY SAFE IN MY HOUSE IS A FIREPROOF WITH IMPORTANT PAPERS and the combination taped to the outside.
Coins are in a safety deposit box.

Scenario: Burgler or Home invasion/Break-in...Gun to you or spouses head as burgler "nicely" asks you for the combination or to open the safe.

mcmxi · January 31, 2007 11:08PM

A lot of people call these fire boxes safes and they are not. They are not designed to keep out a thief. I have one that can be opened with any small key.

ricko · January 31, 2007 11:39PM

If it can be stolen.. it is obviously not 'safe'... A large safe - 800 - 1000 lbs, bolted to the floor, is a 'safe'.... no matter what you have, the ultimate nightmare scenario can be devised... the degree of 'safeness' is a personal decision. The 'gun to the head' routine will even work with a safety deposit box, so do not give me any of that false bravado (a polite way of saying BS)... If what you have, is highly desireable to someone else - methods can be devised to obtain it. A certain degree of paranoia is necessary for reasonable security. After that, it is just not worth the effort or the worry. Cheers, RickO

woodwalker · January 31, 2007 11:56PM

I igree with ricko on this (especially the BS part).

ricko · February 1, 2007 12:02AM

Ah.. another Jeep owner....

Cheers, RickO

MrBreeze · February 1, 2007 12:06AM

To add to Ricko's point, insurance also solves a lot of problems. Why risk your/your family's health/life for some material things. Insure them and secure them, then go about your merry way.

bonkrood · February 1, 2007 12:18AM

I have an interesting safe story, My dad had a 300lb safe in the basement, located under the stairs, before we carried it down there he took a saw and cut though the 8th step on the underside of the board until there was only about 3/8s of an inch of the step un cut, after putting the safe under the step he installed a 4x4 wedged between the cut in the step and the top of the safe, now if someone (2 people) could carry the safe up the stairs, after removing the 4x4 they would be carrying the 300 lb safe back up the stairs with the sawed step, and hopefully finding one or both of them and the safe back down in the basement when we got home, after the step broke in half, sometimes I hoped we would get burglarized.

woodwalker · February 1, 2007 12:47AM

LMAO!

MadMonk · February 1, 2007 12:59AM

<< If it can be stolen.. it is obviously not 'safe'... A large safe - 800 - 1000 lbs, bolted to the floor, is a 'safe'.... no matter what you have, the ultimate nightmare scenario can be devised... the degree of 'safeness' is a personal decision. The 'gun to the head' routine will even work with a safety deposit box, so do not give me any of that false bravado (a polite way of saying BS)... If what you have, is highly desireable to someone else - methods can be devised to obtain it. A certain degree of paranoia is necessary for reasonable security. After that, it is just not worth the effort or the worry. Cheers, RickO >>

Boy the tell tale sign of a real deep thinker...maybe too deep...most crooks are opportunists...your scenario is rare...the majority are EXACTLY as I stated. There are many more collector tricks, like coin insurance. How long have you guys been in the hobby? Cheers.

Cladiator · February 1, 2007 1:13AM

<< fireproof safe valued at $200 >>

It's a crap safe. Safes start getting reliable in the $1000 range. Bolting down to studs with large hardware is essential as well.

OKbustchaser · February 1, 2007 1:16AM

<< 

<< fireproof safe valued at $200 >>

It's a crap safe. Safes start getting reliable in the $1000 range. Bolting down to studs with large hardware is essential as well. >>

At $200 and portable, it's not a safe (crap or otherwise.) It's a fancy lockbox.

Casman · February 1, 2007 1:19AM

<< I have an interesting safe story, My dad had a 300lb safe in the basement, located under the stairs, before we carried it down there he took a saw and cut though the 8th step on the underside of the board until there was only about 3/8s of an inch of the step un cut, after putting the safe under the step he installed a 4x4 wedged between the cut in the step and the top of the safe, now if someone (2 people) could carry the safe up the stairs, after removing the 4x4 they would be carrying the 300 lb safe back up the stairs with the sawed step, and hopefully finding one or both of them and the safe back down in the basement when we got home, after the step broke in half, sometimes I hoped we would get burglarized.

>>

Man that's funny, you'd probably get sued after they crawl out from under the steps...

notwilight · February 1, 2007 1:19AM

The $200 safe will defeat most casual thiefs and the $1000 safe won't defeat the pro. If you're thinking of bolting it down remember that with a big enough lever you can move the world so the 4 small bolts through pine wouldn't stop a good 6' long prybar if the thief has all day to work on it. On the other hand, there have been several bizarre instances reported here in California where we have mansions secluded by orange groves. The thieves figure out when the owner isn't going to be home and move in with heavy machinery. They poke a hole in the wall and throw a chain around the heavy safe. They then just pull it out through the wall and load it with a small crane.

This explains why so many forum members seek absolute anonymity. The best protection is to have the coins outside your home. However, if the thief doesn't know that he could still break into your home looking for them. How disappointed would you be if your little fire safe with irreplacable but valueless documents got stolen because some thief was looking for coins?

--Jerry

Bear · February 1, 2007 1:19AM

The only absolutely safe place for

coins, is Fort Knox. That is, unless Goldfinger

should ever succeed in his dastardly plans.

sweetwilliet · February 1, 2007 4:26AM

One other trick you can do is to put a GPS inside of your safe and if it happens to be stolen, then you can track it online to the burglar's house and invite the police over.

mcmxi · February 1, 2007 4:32AM

The step thing is funny but unless you had millions in there it would be better to have it stolen. You would be successfully sued in this country. As far as the gps thing it won't work inside a safe.

Cladiator · February 1, 2007 4:34AM

There are GPS tracking devices that will work in safes. In fact there are some specifically designed for this purpose. They are an excellent idea.

clackamas · February 1, 2007 4:35AM

A $200 safe, is not a safe, as was stated, its a lockbox. A nice UL15 rated safe will weighs 2000+ Lbs. Mine is a tad over 2500.

Djord · February 1, 2007 4:37AM

Mine is bolted to the concrete floor in a locked room with a 110V line attached to the bottom through the concerete. Line can be shutoff with
a key switch before I open it. I was thinking of adding a sprinkler system for that room only which would activate with the alarm. Safe is about 500#.

ricko · February 1, 2007 7:03AM

Djord, cool set-up... there is liability there though... strangely enough. You can shoot an intruder in your home... but if you set a trap, court cases (precedents) have said you are guilty. Weird, I know... Cheers, RickO

Cladiator · February 1, 2007 7:08AM

Yes,

traps that can injure, kill or mame will get you in prison lightning fast.

puritan9 · February 1, 2007 7:08AM

I have a safe bolted to the concrete floor, and also a dummy safe out in the open.

I have my coins in a safe deposit box.

basestealer · February 1, 2007 7:11AM

<< BURGLARY: A 55-year-old South Point area man reported Friday someone and stole a fireproof safe valued at $200 and containing $2,500 in old coins from his residence in Fayette Township along with some prescription medication. >>

Those sentry firesafes are good for protecting documents and other valuables from fire (short duration fires) for a relatively reasonable price ($200 is reasonable for what you get). However, I don't think they are theft prevention--more like theft deterrents, and even there they are shaky. Same thing with gun safes. There are safes designed to keep the kiddies out, safes designed to withstand fire, floods, and earthquakes, and safes designed to protect the contents from any form of theft. Usually the latter will accomplish all 3. A safe weighing over 200 pounds is a good middle of the road theft deterrent because any burglar will need a device to carry it out the front door. A safe weighing over 500 pounds is even better, because that would require a motorized device to move it. Beyond that, it's just ever increasing degrees of difficulty in removing the safe. The latest thing now is people are stealing ATMs with forklifts--so even a heavy safe is not immune to theft. I'm not a big fan of safe deposit boxes, but it might be wise to diversify some of your stuff into one, along with the best quality home safe you can afford.

DRUNNER · February 1, 2007 7:14AM

In our area a company sells used ATM safes. They are TL-15 and TL-30s . . . delivery is done on a flatbed semi-trailer with special forklifts. They are designed for garage use but can be installed anywhere there is a concrete floor (basement) due to the weight.

They take them out of ATM sites and recondition them . . . then sell in the $700 range delivered. If they are good enough to leave on a streetcorner with $50,000 cash, they are good enough for most people with their Whitman 1941-date circ. wheaties.

Drunner

mrpaseo · February 1, 2007 7:15AM

I once read that someone purchased boxes of rolled cents to place in the bottom of their safe to maximise the weight of the safe, if they needed more room, just take out some of the rolls... if they tried to steal the safe, the rolls would move all round making it harder (Not impossible) to steal, I thought that was cool.

The stuff I keep in the house I wouldn't even report if it was stolen, the good stuff is kept at the bank (Not that I need a large box

)

I thought this tidbit was cool and might just do it if I ever have a safe large enough to hold a case or two of rolled cents

ricko · February 1, 2007 7:17AM

My safe is over 800 lbs empty... and located such that a forklift cannot get to it.... full, it is well over 1500 lbs... so, unless it is attacked by a professional, there is zero chance it will be robbed. Would a gun to the head get the combination? Sure, and that gives me more time - tricky devil that I am.

Cheers, RickO

Cladiator · February 1, 2007 7:17AM

<< They take them out of ATM sites and recondition them . . . then sell in the $700 range delivered >>

That is incredibly cheap for that level quality of safe.

BECOKA · February 1, 2007 7:21AM

My safe is in the basement bolted into concrete. My coins are in the safety deposit box.

Kip · February 1, 2007 7:22AM

<< One other trick you can do is to put a GPS inside of your safe and if it happens to be stolen, then you can track it online to the burglar's house and invite the police over. >>

GPS will have a hard time talking to the Sat. through the steel

topstuf · February 1, 2007 7:23AM

The best I ever read about was a mine in Nevada that continually had metal stolen when they shipped it. Some bright guy built a wagon with holes in the bed and they cast the bullion into 18" ....BALLS. It could be stolen, but it would kill any horse or mule if they tried to strap them on its back from crushing its ribs. And no animal could haul one only. Only a wagon set up for BALLS OF BULLION could make off with the loot.

Think I read it in one of those old Harrah's Club Nevada history books.

lathmach · February 1, 2007 7:28AM

Back when I was young in the 1950's, the guy I worked for told me locks weren't meant to stop thieves.
He said you couldn't stop a determined thief from stealing your stuff.
He told me locks were for keeping the honest people honest.

Ray

Djord · February 1, 2007 11:47AM

<< Djord, cool set-up... there is liability there though... strangely enough. You can shoot an intruder in your home... but if you set a trap, court cases (precedents) have said you are guilty. Weird, I know... Cheers, RickO >>

Hopefully I am there when it happens, I would prefer to try out my 50cal desert eagle and then measure the holes with a caliper.

coindeuce · February 1, 2007 11:52AM

My employer uses 2 TANN's and an ICM(all rated better than TL-30), each weighing approximately 3 tons. I don't expect them to be moving. Ever.

fishcooker · February 1, 2007 12:16PM

Sounds like they could sink!

coindeuce · February 1, 2007 12:32PM

<< Sounds like they could sink! >>

They're floating placidly on a solid pad of concrete...all 9 tons, side by side.

woodwalker · February 1, 2007 12:52PM

Michigans posts are always such a ray of sunshine!

LincolnCentMan · February 1, 2007 12:53PM

.

Writersblock · February 3, 2007 6:11AM

<< How disappointed would you be if your little fire safe with irreplacable but valueless documents got stolen because some thief was looking for coins? >>

Or if they put the gun to the loved ones head and they don't believe that BS that you don't have any coins here.

What good is a safe if it can be moved?

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