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Do you think the US should completely revise its coinage system?
RWB
Posts: 8,082 ✭
The US coinage is generally based on a relationship of diameter to precious metal content. Now that coins are representative tokens, do you think the US should follow the lead of New Zealand and other countries in completely revising coin dimensions?
Also, what would be the best denominations? (Some have suggested 5-cents, 25-cents, $1, $5 with any redundant paper currency discontinued.)
(Note: This has been discussed at several points in US history including 1887, 1910 and 1963.)
PS: If one followed A. Piatt Andrew's 1910 suggestion, all the obverses would have a federal shield, date and "United States of America"; the reverse would have the denomenation as a large number within an ornamental wreath, with the value written out surrounding all. Edges would be different for each denomenation so the blind could determin value by touch. There woud be no portraits. The coins were to be strictly utilitarian items.
Also, what would be the best denominations? (Some have suggested 5-cents, 25-cents, $1, $5 with any redundant paper currency discontinued.)
(Note: This has been discussed at several points in US history including 1887, 1910 and 1963.)
PS: If one followed A. Piatt Andrew's 1910 suggestion, all the obverses would have a federal shield, date and "United States of America"; the reverse would have the denomenation as a large number within an ornamental wreath, with the value written out surrounding all. Edges would be different for each denomenation so the blind could determin value by touch. There woud be no portraits. The coins were to be strictly utilitarian items.
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Comments
5 cent
20 cent
50 cent
$1
$2
Eliminate the $1 FRN
Worst case change from $1 is 5 coins (50c, 20c, 3x5c) (Today is 9 coins assuming no 50c used)
Worst case change from $5 is 7 coins (same 5 as above plus 2 $2 or 1 each $2 & $1 coins) (today is 9 coins and 4 notes --excludes $2 FRN)
Ask a major business that deals in cash how much time this can save.... McDonalds, 7-11, etc
Composition should be cupro-nickel clad, copper side out for below $1, cupro-nickel side out for $1, $2 (or bi-metalic for $1, $2)
<< <i>
Also, what would be the best denominations? (Some have suggested 5-cents, 25-cents, $1, $5 with any redundant paper currency discontinued.)
>>
I agree with those denominations. I would suggest making the diameters as follows:
5-cent: 20 millimeters
25-cent 23 millimeters
$1: 26 millimeters
$5: 30 millimeters
And, make only $5, $25, $100, and $500 currency
US and British coin collector, and creator of The Ultimate Chuck E. Cheese's and Showbiz Pizza Place Token & Ticket Guide
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
<< <i>Also, what would be the best denominations? (Some have suggested 5-cents, 25-cents, $1, $5 with any redundant paper currency discontinued.) >>
I'd like to see 25 cent, $1, $2 and $5 coins. Eliminate the cent, nickel and dime, $1 and $5 bill and round totals to the nearest 25 cents.
My icon IS my coin. It is a gem 1949 FBL Franklin.
10c
50c (smaller, nickel size)
$1
$5
$10
print:
$20
$100
$1000
That is easily sufficient for our needs. We only need one decimal place precision in our monetary system. The cent, nickel and quarter should be eliminated.
NSDR - Life Member
SSDC - Life Member
ANA - Pay As I Go Member
.50
1.00
2.50
5.00
10.00
two generations ago. Much more has changed than only the value of the
individual coins. Large percentages of transactions involve no cash any
more.
Still currency should be rational to fascilitate all the uses which still exist.
The change should be done in such a way as to involve the least possible
amount of disruption and cost. At the current time many sales are lost be-
cause of the currency though most of these are in the vending industry.
The dime and quarter are the only current coins which should continue to
circulate unchanged. While it would be possible to devise a more efficient
currency without these two coins, the billions of these in circulation would
becoome a loss and liability to the US government were they eliminated.
The penny should go and transactions rounded. Sales taxes would kick in
in 5c increments so there would be no change here. The nickel contains more
than 7c worth of metal so needs to be revamped. It is necessary to commerce
because it wouldn't be possible in all cases to make change without this deno-
mination. It can be kept exactly the way it is but changed to aluminum.
$2 bills and $1 coins should replace the $1 note. As soon as people get used
to this the $2 bill should give way to a $2 coin.
<< <i>The dime and quarter are the only current coins which should continue to
circulate unchanged. >>
They are irreconcilable for change. The quarter must go too and yield to a more sanely sized half dollar. If people will miss Abe and George on their coin, tough. Take all of the presidents off at that opportunity.
NSDR - Life Member
SSDC - Life Member
ANA - Pay As I Go Member
<< <i>I would suggest:
5 cent
20 cent
50 cent
$1
$2
Eliminate the $1 FRN
Worst case change from $1 is 5 coins (50c, 20c, 3x5c) (Today is 9 coins assuming no 50c used)
Worst case change from $5 is 7 coins (same 5 as above plus 2 $2 or 1 each $2 & $1 coins) (today is 9 coins and 4 notes --excludes $2 FRN)
Ask a major business that deals in cash how much time this can save.... McDonalds, 7-11, etc
Composition should be cupro-nickel clad, copper side out for below $1, cupro-nickel side out for $1, $2 (or bi-metalic for $1, $2) >>
Eurotrash!!
<< <i>
<< <i>The dime and quarter are the only current coins which should continue to
circulate unchanged. >>
They are irreconcilable for change. The quarter must go too and yield to a more sanely sized half dollar. If people will miss Abe and George on their coin, tough. Take all of the presidents off at that opportunity. >>
There's nothing I'd like to see more than the 40 billion circulating clad quarters
getting destroyed but this is a huge expense to the US government and taxpa-
yer. At recoining cost of almost 3c each this represents more than a billion dol-
lars.
Minting a 5c at a lower cost would protect this investment. Should aluminum
become too expensive in a few years the size of the nickel could be reduced.
If copper and nickel become too expensive for the dime and quarter in the fu-
ture it will be a simple matter of recoining them in stainless steel or other less
expensive metal which would result in a net profit to the government as they
recover the old coins.
The prospect of 300,000,000 seeing 40,000,000,000 coins disappear that have
been ignored for generations is exciting to those who haven't been ignoring
them but I don't believe this is in the best interests of the country.
Any ideas how the government could get the 1-cent, 5-cent, and 25-cent coins out of circulation?
US and British coin collector, and creator of The Ultimate Chuck E. Cheese's and Showbiz Pizza Place Token & Ticket Guide
"Upon one side of the coins there shall be an impression emblematic of Liberty".
paper bills for pennies, dimes and nickels... MUAH!
Also, I think we definitely need a 53-cent piece for commerce.
US and British coin collector, and creator of The Ultimate Chuck E. Cheese's and Showbiz Pizza Place Token & Ticket Guide
<< <i>According to the gloom and doomers, the dollar will be worthless and we will be using Euros and Yauns. >>
<< <i>Embrace the Amero
As long as I can get a one amero coin, I'm in
<< <i>Also, what would be the best denominations? (Some have suggested 5-cents, 25-cents, $1, $5 with any redundant paper currency discontinued.) >>
The 5 cent coin needs to be changed, but these denominations work well.
Any solution that replaces the quarter has the problem of what to do with the billions upon billions of quarters already out there. The quarter is the workhorse coin of the US -- dimes and nickels are supporting characters to the quarter. Yes, it's a weird denomination and an artifact of a long gone age, but there it is nonetheless. So when designing a "new" coinage system, it makes sense to start there, and work up and down.
The dime doesn't divide into the quarter, so it's out. You'll get a lot of belly-aching from the FDR-lovers and the March of Dimes charity, but the bottom line is that it is an unnecessary coin.
Cents are eliminated right off as well -- there is just no way to economically produce a one cent coin anymore. They're just more trouble than they're worth, literally.
So, we're left with the five cent coin. It basically needs one of two things to stay viable: either a size change, or a metal change. It's already obsolete in terms of monetary utility -- a nickel today has the value of 1/4 cent in 1857, the year half cents were eliminated. But until we can get to quarter-rounding, we need a coin that can break a quarter, and the nickel is it.
Both changing the metal or size require vending machine reprogramming, so for sake of argument that fact is ignored. The metal change is probably the easiest -- some sort of zinc/tin/aluminum combination, or perhaps zinc coated steel. Anything to get the cost of production down to around 2c/coin; I'll let the metallurgists figure that out.
(The size reduction would be the return of the historic half-dime -- a clad half-dime would be economically viable, numismatically interesting, and would be roundly hated by the public.)
The dollar coin remains the Sacagawea in its current size and composition. It's a perfectly usable coin.
The five dollar coin would be something about midway in size between a Sackie and a current half dollar. It should be of interesting design and composition, so as to distinguish it quickly in a pile. Something multi-sided and/or bimetallic seems appropriate.
I would keep the half dollar around as is, but with the following change: instead of Kennedy, the coin would change every year, and be a quasi-circulating commemorative. The Mint has already made clad commemorative half dollars for many years; this would be taking it a step further and making them every year, and distributing them at face value rather than the high markups historically charged.
That's my current thinking, were I pope o' da Mint.
<< <i>Embrace the Amero
The Amero within 3-5 years is a distinct possibily. Especially with the liberal idiots that are siezing control of our government.
<< <i>If the coins are so time consuming for places like McDonalds they could factor price and tax to land on a dime, nickel or quarter increment. The movie theaters already do this at the concession stand. >>
It's not possible to do this. Any system of pricing and tax computation will be thwarted by consumers purchasing various quantities of goods. Movie theaters get away with this by pricing sales tax into the prices of their goods. When you deal with the margins of movie theater food, it makes sense to do this; on the much thinner margins of a McDonalds or Wal-Mart, it's impossible.
<< <i>I have no problem with the current system of coinage. The last time I emptied the change bucket I empty my pockets into every day I got $450. >>
My friend, that exactly *is* the problem. Our coinage doesn't circulate anymore. It's become so inefficient that for many people it doesn't make sense to actually *spend* coins -- better to just dump 'em in a bucket. If our coinage system is to be truly revamped, a major goal should be getting coins back into commerce. Money only really works when it's being circulated, from business to person and back again. When it just goes business to person to bucket, it's a dead system.
<< <i>Especially with the liberal idiots that are siezing control of our government.
What you call "siezing control of our government", others might term "elected by a majority of the people".
But even so I don't see a circulating "amero" anytime soon. I could see a virtual currency that would aid commerce in NAFTA/AFTA, but to actually take the step to replacing the US$, CDN$, and Mexican peso with the "amero" -- not in our lifetimes.
Eliminate the $5, $2 & $1 FRN;
Eliminate all cents, nickles & dimes. Public should redeem cents, nickels and dimes for new coinage.
Make coins in the following values:
$5
$1
Quarter dollar = $0.25
Eight of a dollar = $0.125.
All bills rounded to nearest 1/8 of a dollar.
And just to ensure chaos, eliminate the English system and bring on the Metric system.
Proud recipient of two "You Suck" awards
<< <i>Make a $1000 FRN >>
We don't need any currency larger than the $100. The only people who deal in sufficiently large amounts of cash to make these bills viable are criminals and coin dealers. Everyone else uses plastic.
<< <i>Eight of a dollar = $0.125.
All bills rounded to nearest 1/8 of a dollar. >>
I like this idea. Make the 1/8 coin half the size of a quarter (about midway between a dime and a nickel), and perhaps the same composition as the Sacagawea dollar to give it distinction. 'Twould be a useful coin, I think.
Joe
<< <i>And why the heck is a nickel so much bigger than a dime? It doesn't make a lick of sense. >>
Historical artifact from when dimes were made of silver. A bit nonsensical now, but perfectly sensible then.
<< <i>I'm sceptical of getting rid of pennies because I think state and county governments would use that opportunity to raise sales tax to 10%. >>
Why do you say so? What about states that don't have sales taxes?
<< <i>I clearly have not given this as much thought as the veterans here, but from a mathematical perspective and not a numismatic one, the existence of the dime and the $10 bill has always bothered me. Every other denomination is a multiple of 4 or 5 from the next higher, except when you throw in those pesky dimes and $10 bills (commonly circulated $, not counting half dollars and $2 bills). And why the heck is a nickel so much bigger than a dime? It doesn't make a lick of sense. Toss out the dime. I'm sceptical of getting rid of pennies because I think state and county governments would use that opportunity to raise sales tax to 10%. Or at least try to.
Joe >>
There's no need to change any sales taxes whatsoever. They can just be rounded
like everything else or better yet, they can be geared to kick in in larger increments.
The tax stays the same.
It's the same with pricing. Either the stores will have to round or they will have to
price things in 5c increments. Does it really matter if your new car is $19,999.99 or
$19,999.95 ? ...of course not. Nor will it matter if the tax on it is $1,500.10 or
$1,500.08. Sometimes you'l gain a penny or two and sometimes you'll lose a penny
or two. But you'll always save the trouble and cost of dealing with a useless and
worthless coin.
pre 65 the dime was silver and the nickel, well, nickel.
I like it the way it is. Now if I could only spend my half dollars at the post office I'd be a happy camper.
Steve
<< <i>Now if I could only spend my half dollars at the post office I'd be a happy camper. >>
Come to my PO. I spent some there last week. The clerk was a bit of a coin afficionado, however, and bought them out of the till for herself 'cause they're "rare".
Banks round off transactions all the time. One of the more interesting computer crimes was for a bank computer jock to program the system to throw the 0.0001 rounding into a special account for himself. In one instance quite a few years ago, I recall the guy getting an extra $40k a year this way. Naturally, banks round in their favor, too...that's how the guy got caught - bank income went down slightly and a bean counter found the problem.
Rounding has persistently been used as the primary excuse for not acting or of promoting something useless. This was used in the Coinage Act of 1912 to convince the House of Rep to approve a 2-1/2 cent piece and a 3-cent piece "because merchants were rounding up and taking the 1/2-cent for themselves."
Keep the ideas coming. Maybe Director Moy will read them and ....
<< <i>One of the more interesting computer crimes was for a bank computer jock to program the system to throw the 0.0001 rounding into a special account for himself. >>
Yeah, we saw Superman III and Office Space, too.
North American Partnership website
Kinda interesting, but a bit scary at the same time!
Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else. - Bastiat
<< <i>
<< <i>Embrace the Amero
The Amero within 3-5 years is a distinct possibily. Especially with the liberal idiots that are siezing control of our government.
I hate to break it to you, but the globalists, the new world orderists--they exist at all levels of government and in both parties, George W. Bush being the chief puppet. The election in this country is decided by the Bilderburg group, the Bohemian grovers, and other secret societies whose existance and membership are anything but a secret--but their doings are safeguarded. I suggest you watch some Alex Jones videos (google them or go to prisonplanet.com). Our borders are open intentionally for a reason--the CIA drugtrade, the millions of illegals that flock over every year, it's because it's already written in stone the government's plans for a North American Union. The NAFTA superhighway has already been built! Our constitution means nothing, and of course it can't mean anything when we merge with Canada and Mexico. International Law reigns supreme, even within our own borders.
We desperately need to get back on the gold standard. I don't think it will happen until the fiat currency and World Banks collapse. As for retooling our coinage, I propose we elliminate all presidents from all currency, both coins and paper money. Presidents do not deserve any such honor. I think the most beautiful coins were minted in the 19c and early part of the 20c. Indeed, the coins we most treasure now don't have presidental mugs on the front of them. The penny and the nickel cost more to produce than their face value--and the dollar drops every day in value and will continue indefinately. It has to. So, resizing these coins and changing their composition will only buy time--it won't eliminate the problem. 10 years from now, the new smaller sized coins made of alluminum will be too costly to produce.
I propose that a complete elimination of cents be in order--it will in the near future I'm sure, especially when everything on earth ceases to cost less than a buck. The dollar can be the new cent. We can go back to having a full copper "dollar", a 25 dollar coin, 50 dollar piece, and 100 dollar coin. Perhaps 100 dollars could be renamed "1 Amero" or whatever. Or maybe we can just slash a digit off our currency like Mexico did.
<< <i>
<< <i>And why the heck is a nickel so much bigger than a dime? It doesn't make a lick of sense. >>
Historical artifact from when dimes were made of silver. A bit nonsensical now, but perfectly sensible then.
<< <i>I'm sceptical of getting rid of pennies because I think state and county governments would use that opportunity to raise sales tax to 10%. >>
Why do you say so? What about states that don't have sales taxes? >>
I remember a time in college when I bought a bag of Oreos. Bear with me. The Oreos were 99 cents, and sales tax in Hamilton County Ohio at the time was 6.50%. I had exactly $1.05 on me. Sales tax should have been 6.435 cents, rounded down to 6 cents (if the rounding was done mathematically). The register rang up $1.06. Turns out they always round up sales tax to the nearest penny, never round it down... at least in Hamilton County Ohio ca. 1995. So, why would this be any different? If there were no pennies, the Oreos would cost me $1.10. With the mindset that sales tax is 10 cents on a 1 dollar item, it would be very easy to argue that sales tax should just be 10% on everything.
Joe
p.s. I'm trying to play the role of the outsider here. I'm a card collector but I like to visit the coin forums from time to time and see what y'all are up to. The vast majority of Americans do not consider monetary matters from a numismatic perspective.
<< <i>The Oreos were 99 cents, and sales tax in Hamilton County Ohio at the time was 6.50%. I had exactly $1.05 on me. Sales tax should have been 6.435 cents, rounded down to 6 cents (if the rounding was done mathematically). The register rang up $1.06. Turns out they always round up sales tax to the nearest penny, never round it down... at least in Hamilton County Ohio ca. 1995. So, why would this be any different? >>
They were doing it wrong. Sales tax is supposed to be rounded to the nearest penny, not just up. If you wanted to, you probably could have complained to the relevant state agency. If all of Hamilton County was doing this, they were probably taking in too much sales tax revenue. Sounds like a big scandal.
A scandal in Ohio? There's something you don't see every day.
Oh waitaminute... yes, you do...
I just emailed my Senator and Congressman urging them to consider changing US coins.
8.2 billion cents
1.5 billion nickels (According to Coinflation.com a nickel has a melt value of 7 cents) that's $30,000,000.00 lost just on the content of the nickels. No accounting for production or transportation costs. Yes, $30M is a piddling amount in a $13.2 Trillion dollar GDP but it bothers me that every single coin is a money loser.
I'd like to keep the nickel denomination, dime, quarter, half (smaller and more useful) and dollar coin. Eliminate the paper dollar.
JMO
Face it, when was the last time that you spent a twenty dollar bill, a ten dollar bill three ones and a half-dollar coin for gas when filling up at the local Qwiki-mart?
Who on this board has never swiped their credit card at the grocery store in thte self-service line? (OK this includes you or your spouse).
I remember being a teen when the SBA first came out. For me the great utility of this coin was the ability to pruchase 5 games on the pin-ball machine for an SBA when a Quarter only got you one.
Anyway to answer the question: a complete revamp of the coin system is not likely seeing as how the circulating coins have not change in a long long time:
1-cent: Introduced in 1909.
5-cent: Introduced in 1938.
10-cent: Introduced in 1946
25-cent: Introduced in 1932
50-cent: Introduced in1964
$1-Re-introduced in1971, current design introduced in 2000
Except for the $1 coin, the rest of the circulating change has been unchanged for the longest unprecedented runs in history!
I don't think change in the U.S has much utility these days beyond feeding parking meters.
Edited: Not meaning to hijack the OP here, I may have missed the point. I don't think "designs" have changed based on the aforementioned. It seems to me the OP is questioning the diameters, thickness and mass of our current coinage.
Again in this day and age why not swipe the magic magnetic strip? But I digress. Our coins thickness, mass, circumference are all based on traditional historic intrinsic metals values. And if you look at coins of other nations you will see alot of similarites among our coins and theirs.
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by anything, except confidence.
<< <i>The US coinage is generally based on a relationship of diameter to precious metal content. Now that coins are representative tokens, do you think the US should follow the lead of New Zealand and other countries in completely revising coin dimensions?
Also, what would be the best denominations? (Some have suggested 5-cents, 25-cents, $1, $5 with any redundant paper currency discontinued.)
(Note: This has been discussed at several points in US history including 1887, 1910 and 1963.)
PS: If one followed A. Piatt Andrew's 1910 suggestion, all the obverses would have a federal shield, date and "United States of America"; the reverse would have the denomenation as a large number within an ornamental wreath, with the value written out surrounding all. Edges would be different for each denomenation so the blind could determin value by touch. There woud be no portraits. The coins were to be strictly utilitarian items. >>
Absolutely! Here how to do this - make the cent,and a new 2 cent coins out of copper-plated aluminum, the 5 cent and the dime out of either brass or brass-plated steel, the 25 cent and the half dollar out of copper-nickel clad or nickel-plated steel, the $1 and $2 in bimetallic form, and the $5 in trimetallic form. The $10 FRN would be the lowest paper denomination (though I think the FRN's should switch to polymer like Australia and New Zealand as going to such would make the notes longer lasting and almost impossible to counterfeit. And thats "El Doro's" 2 cents worth!
<< <i>Here is my suggestion - a $2 bi-metallic circulating coin (Canada has one we should too
<< <i>Face it, when was the last time that you spent a twenty dollar bill, a ten dollar bill three ones and a half-dollar coin for gas when filling up at the local Qwiki-mart?
Who on this board has never swiped their credit card at the grocery store in thte self-service line? (OK this includes you or your spouse). >>
I've always paid for my gas using cash, and just about the only thing I have used my credit card for is on-line payments. If I am paying for something in person I always use cash for smaller amounts and checks for larger ones.
Simply have a...
10 cent coin
50 cent coin
$1 coin
$5 and up in bills (I wouldn't want a $5 coin as I tend to take change and just throw it wherever)
I would like to have a clear size difference in the coins.. perhaps keep the dime the same as it is now in size and denomination, but make a nickel sized coin that is worth 50 cents and quarter sized coin that is worth a dollar.
Phase out the large 50 cent coin or better yet, mint it as a $5 coin alongside $5 bills.
Will it ever happen? I doubt it.