OK I'm ready to show - just won

richardshipp · January 25, 2007 2:11PM

Raw, Risky, blah, blah, blah, who cares hey I love the pics and if the coins are even close I'm a happy colector

basestealer · January 25, 2007 2:13PM

LOL! Those were the ones I was looking at! So that's why they went so high... Hmmph

richardshipp · January 25, 2007 2:17PM

<< LOL! Those were the ones I was looking at! So that's why they went so high... Hmmph >>

I really wanted the guys Oregon too but someone wanted it a few bucks more and a few seconds later than me

basestealer · January 25, 2007 2:19PM

Yes, someone did. Let's hope it turns out as good as it looks.

Bear · January 25, 2007 2:21PM

Hate to be a party pooper, but the coins all look similar.

This could mean a colored light was used, to blend the

toning out and make it look better and more golden brown

then it actually is. In any even, I could be wrong and hope I am.

basestealer · January 25, 2007 2:25PM

In my opinion, these commemoratives appear to have been stored together for a very long time, in the same commemorative album (whitman folder, according to auctioneer). Coins from my collection have toned in a similar manner. I think we'll get a definitive answer from PCGS--I hope?

GoldenEyeNumismatics · January 25, 2007 2:25PM

nice color!

itsnotjustme · January 25, 2007 2:27PM

The Texas is one of the most complex and beautiful reverses on any US coin.

richardshipp · January 25, 2007 2:29PM

<< Hate to be a party pooper, but the coins all look similar.

This could mean a colored light was used, to blend the

toning out and make it look better and more golden brown

then it actually is. In any even, I could be wrong and hope I am. >>

You could be right Bear. The seller had 15 commems in a row tonight all with the same look. Says they just came out of an album. If they grade I did great; if they don't I still like the look and will be happy. The Stone Mountain looks like a stunner to me.

richardshipp · January 25, 2007 2:31PM

<< Yes, someone did. Let's hope it turns out as good as it looks. >>

Congrats. It sure is a purdy one.

seanq · January 25, 2007 2:48PM

Beheheh... I was watching those as well. I almost PM'ed you with them, too, but then I thought eBay is way too big, those couldn't be what he meant.

They're all way too nice for the set I'm working on, but man were they purdy.

I was a little leery of the toning, given that this seller also has a couple of coins that look like this up for bid, but I can definitely see why you would take the chance.

Now you do me a favor, and sleep in next Tuesday when this Sesqui closes.

Sean Reynolds

seanq · January 25, 2007 2:49PM

<< 

<< LOL! Those were the ones I was looking at! So that's why they went so high... Hmmph >>

I really wanted the guys Oregon too but someone wanted it a few bucks more and a few seconds later than me

>>

You mean this one? Drool!

Sean Reynolds

TomB · January 25, 2007 3:27PM

I'll play the part of the jerk and write that I'm not convinced they are what they claim to be and that I would not have felt safe in bidding on these pieces.

beep · January 25, 2007 3:36PM

You picked 3 of my 5 favorite commems. I think you'll do okay. Good luck

123cents · January 25, 2007 3:51PM

Nice commemoratives Richard. Congrats.

notwilight · January 25, 2007 4:12PM

Very nice. I'd like a Missouri but not willing to pay for one at this time. the one from this set sold for $910. I grew up in central MO and Sedalia was the closest movie theatre when I was dating in high school...and 30 miles of deserted roads on the way home. --Jerry

richardshipp · January 25, 2007 10:47PM

After a night sleeping on it and then this morning reading posts and pm's received...

I will readily admit that I am no expert in numismatics. This site has taught me a lot over the last year and I do respect the opinions and appreciate the advice of many of you.

Both Bear and Tom question the toning, as do I am sure others who chose to remain mute. The fact of the matter is that on some coins it is very difficult to determine with 100% certainty if the toning occured "naturally" or not. Of course I would have been in a better position if I could have seen them in hand; or even better had someone with more expertise see them in hand on my behalf prior to bidding. Even then, can you ever be 100% sure on coins like these? The timing of our buying opportunities are controlled by the sellers and in this case last night was the opportunity.

The decision to take a chance on these coins was a cumulative decision. The seller had 15 commems all with the same general toning. He stated that they all came from an album set but who knows for sure. In all 15 cases; buyers were willing to take a chance on the coins by paying good money for raw coins. While the toning is consistent across the coins, several of the coins exhibit what I'd describe as "textile toning" although I'm not sure if that is the correct term for this. The Connecticut is an example of it. I also can't account for why that type of toning would be on Commems. These Commems are among my favorite designs and that influenced me as well.

In addition to the Commems, the seller had several raw coins which did not exhibit any toning and most if not all of those sold for strong money. There were also several dealers bidding on the sellers coins. The seller also had one Morgon that I felt was AT but I don't know what it sold for.

In a PM someone suggested enhanced photos. Again, I don't know for sure. I do know that the sellers feedback reflects good upon the coins they have previously sold and delivered. In addition they offer a 5 day return policy. If there was a huge problem, the seller only lives a couple of hours away

If the coins in hand pass my novice muster; then I'll submit them for the PCGS opinion. If they slab at almost any MS grade then the buys were sound from a financial perspective . If they slab as MS65+ (64 on the Connecticut) then they were a great buy. (this is my opinion, I am not a dealer and don't buy at dealer pricing) If they slab and I like the look in hand then they will likely be keepers at least until upgrades can be found (and afforded).

On the other hand, if they don't slab then I paid for messed with coins and will likely take a loss when and if sold.

So it was a risk to buy them but I see the upside as having more potential than the downside.

I actually take it as a compliment that people I respect are concerned for something I purchase in that I might get burned. Does that mean they care for me????

Thanks and have a great day.

Richard

jmj3esq · January 25, 2007 11:15PM

I had my eye an those last night. They are somewhat questionable, but I like them. That guy had a ton of nice looking commems go down last night. Some looked more questionable than others. You made nice choices. Are you getting them slabbed? Keep us informed.

The Texas and the Connecticut have some odd toning. The tone on both of them have an interesting texture.

DenverDave · January 25, 2007 11:23PM

Richard you should really listen to Tom & Bear and others...

There's some thing FUNKY in HUSTON, smells of SULFUR...!!!

Red Flags...

There all the same toning...

There all toned the same on both sides...

Most have finger prints and/or textile toning...

He's not flooding the market, about 1 of 10 auctions are toned...

Been a member of Ebay only 4 months...

Check his feedback, you will be shocked...!!!

Here's a few photos from his past auctions, I have many, many more if you would like to see them...

ricko · January 25, 2007 11:26PM

Nice coins... albeit somewhat dicey... if you like them, then all is well. Let us know.. Cheers, RickO

ziggy29 · January 25, 2007 11:29PM

If you like the coins, you like the coins, and questionable toning alone isn't a reason to pass if you like them. But if you pay a big premium for the toning, be very careful.

KurtHorn · January 25, 2007 11:36PM

Dave's pics of his past auction scream AT. These you bought however if they are AT are very, very professional. The only things that make them suspect are the identical look to them. Be real interesting to see what you get when you have them in hand. Let us know.

If they really do look like this and don't show signs of cleaning... then they should slab. You might want to submit one first to see PCGS's opinion. Which would also solve the "jeeze these all look the same" problem.

Tbar · January 25, 2007 11:50PM

I was watching those also last night.....if they are AT, it looks like a real nice job. I think he had an Elgin up too, that I thought really looked NT. There seems to be original luster on these coins.

I vote that they slab, but I am a novice.

Crackout · January 25, 2007 11:50PM

Notice how the blue cloth the coins are sitting on has the same texture as spots on the coins?

Does not look right to me.

golddustin · January 26, 2007 12:07AM

It just so happens that I've got my commem half dollars in the very same type of album (Whitman Classic), and if it's any consolation, all the newer commems that I've added have taken on the exact color and pattern of toning that the three coins exhibit. However, (and this stands to reason - Tom could probably verify my premise..) the coins that were from the early 20th century have not changed at all in toning - most likely because their oxidized 'skin' was already in place, and the album would not affect those coins. I suppose there's the chance that they were dipped before being placed into the album, but according to the PCGS grading handbook, that does not preclude certification, as long it is not overdone - which doesn't appear to be the case here.

Whichever, they are luv-a-lee coins, and you should enjoy them as they are, and not worry about the $$, unless you planned on turning them quickly, which it doesn't sound like you intend to do. Isn't that what we collect for?

Chuck

CommemDude · January 26, 2007 12:18AM

I have to go with TomB on this one....the coins are just TOO much alike to have toned naturally over time. The mix of copper and silver in each coin affects the way it tones. I have around 50 PDS sets of commems that I know were kept together in their original mailers, and although they "match", they just dont look identical the way these 15 coins do.

Also, I dont recall seeing a Wayte Raymond album page where all 10 coins looked identical either.

pics courtesy of Jeremy, airplanenut

DenverDave · January 26, 2007 12:44AM

I admit Richards coins by them self's do not scream AT but as with anything you must take it in contents...

Here's all the Commems. that ended last night, sorted by color...

The browntone ones are being removed from the toning agent before the blue/red appear but if you look close some are just on the edge of turning blue/red...

The texture on the coins match the texture of the cloth in the background...

In most cases album toning DOSE NOT tone the same on both sides and certainly DOSE NOT have a textile pattern...

If your buying novelty coins is one thing but all these brought $200+ last night and two of them over $1000...!!!

He is getting very good at ATing but I'm sure in hand there is even more evidence of ATing and they will body bag at PCGS...

It's a total shame as he's destroying some nice coins...

If you do not believed there AT by now, then Mr. Barnum was correct..."-)

seanq · January 26, 2007 1:00AM

Too strange... a friend of mine won this clipped 1912-S cent earlier this month and arranged to sell/trade it to me as an upgrade for my set. I was about to start a new thread about it when I realized it came from the same seller as these commems.

The error is genuine, and the coin is well struck and uncirculated, but the surfaces have been horribly stripped and discolored. It sticks out in my set like a sore thumb because of the unnatural look. I'm planning for it to spend some time in a paper envelope just to see if I can darken it some and give it a more natural look.

Sean Reynolds

410a · January 26, 2007 1:02AM

Three very nice commems in uncommonly great looking condition. Love that toning and the luster is exceptional in your pic's Good Score. I got a soft spot for commems.
Regards, Michael

urfunny07 · January 26, 2007 1:03AM

<< Raw, Risky, blah, blah, blah, who cares hey I love the pics and if the coins are even close I'm a happy colector

>>

some very nice comems!

410a · January 26, 2007 1:21AM

One time not too long ago I was sent a Proof 66 Barber quarter in an NGC holder. The coin had an increidble amount (my estimation) of hair lines on the cheek of MS Liberty. The toning on the coin, colorful and real looking, covered the hairlines. I suspect it was AT although I was convinced it was real. This coin came from a well respect person in numismatics. I passed on purchasing the coin. My point is this; If it appears to be hiding something or an attempt at hiding either marks or hairlines it might just a darn good job at hiding something. NOW, read this again. I said IT MIGHT BE. The three coins in this thread, the first three, seem to me to be real.
A long time ago, back when toning or AT and NT wasn't such a big concern I was taught that getting blue colors on coins was difficult as NT, now I am not so sure. I have seen coins come out of Whtman holders and they are blue on the edges although not as light and pretty as many today. Seems to me coins, silver, go from golds to progressively darker.
Not too long ago people especially dealers were complaining;'where can you get a one hundred year old coin that is headlight bright?"
Toning it waxes and wanes. BEAR you move the sun when and where you want it. Maybe you can control the toning too.

richardshipp · January 26, 2007 1:25AM

DenverDave,

Your points and analysis in your post are well stated. Time will tell if these can be slabbed or not. If he is doctoring them then you are correct that it is a shame in what is being done to the coins. That's why I still pile on whenever there is a MOC thread.

The truth be told, I tried to buy the Oregon last night as well; and it was all I could do to not bid on the Isabella. The '13 Type I Buffalo was pretty sweet as well and tempted me. All in all it was a nice run of coins closing 3 minutes apart.

Prior to bidding though, I did review every auction in his feedback (well the first 15 pages of feedback) I looked at every coin sold picture. It did not strike me as bad at all? There was one negative on a $20 Morgan; and a positive FB on a similarly toned commem which the seller said he returned and got his money back on.

The toning would likely hide any previous hairlines so I'll have to wait and see when in hand. The coins did seem to be pretty much mark free which also influenced me.

As far as "a sucker born every minute"...... maybe I am a sucker; but would point out that its not like I purchased a Fake Trade Dollar from China or something. I'd prefer to think of myself as someone who knowingly decided to take a risk and was willing to accept the consequences of the decision.

Thanks again for taking the time to discuss the coins. That is what is good about this place

Richard

CarlWohlforth · January 26, 2007 1:55AM

<<several of the coins exhibit what I'd describe as "textile toning" >>

When I first looked I noticed the texture and uniform color. The commems have the look of a Silver Eagle I put in a Taco Bell napkin for a few months. The texture on my ASE was similar and came from the texture of the napkin. The Morgan linked in an earlier reply looks AT.

DenverDave · January 26, 2007 1:58AM

Well enough Richard, good luck on the Commums..."-)

As far as the Barnum remark... I was not referring to you personally as the seller only has only one neg and is fooling alot of good people as your self. That's the reason I took the time and trouble to post the photos, after reading this thread and viewing the photos others will think twice I hope...

golddustin · January 26, 2007 5:37AM

After reading Denver Dave's post, I'm afraid I have to agree - I'm also thinking that, knowing how commems were marketed and packaged, how in the world would they attain textile toming? I've seen some very vivid tab-toned commems (almost always dark red to amber/brown) , but that 'textile toning' would really give me a pause.

Russ · January 26, 2007 5:55AM

Whenever I see a new seller show up on eBay selling a sizable inventory of what appears to be very nice material I have to ask myself: With the extremely aggressive competition for the good stuff in this market, how can this seller have so much and risk selling it at auction? The logical answer is that he can't. That something is amiss.

I REALLY hope that the coins work out, but this is a dangerous game.

Russ, NCNE

Fairlaneman · January 26, 2007 6:15AM

After looking at the sellers feedback and previous auctions that still show up I believe you will have problems with the coins you won.

Hopefully everything will work out just fine.

Ken

BigE · January 26, 2007 7:01AM

Why not buy certified non-AT ones for the same price, 910.00 for an iffy Missouri?, you can buy a pcgs 63 for around 700.00----------BigE

richardshipp · January 26, 2007 7:11AM

I didn't buy the Missouri although I liked it. I think the group has pretty much spoken and I've got to respect the opinions. If its a lesson learned then thats what it is. It's not the end of the world or anything

,

JRocco · January 26, 2007 8:33AM

I believe a few of us gave opinions of a few coins offered by this seller (I remember the blue cloth background) last night.
I did not like the look of these coins then, and I don't like the look of them now. Hope I am wrong and they turn out great, but.........

When you get them in hand richardshipp let us know what YOU think---you might be able to tell something about them without spending the money to send them anywhere, You don't need a TPG to tell you a coin is bad if you know what a bad coin looks like yourself.

OK I'm ready to show - just won

Comments

Leave a Comment