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2007 Presidential Spouses Gold Proof Coins - Your Comments Here
Goldbully
Posts: 18,508 ✭✭✭✭✭
Post your thoughts and observations about these historic Presidential First Lady Commemoratives.
Images from the U.S. Mint press library..................
Images from the U.S. Mint press library..................
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Comments
It's also hard to imagine how some of these drawings are going to translate into engravings -- like the painting of Washington.
They remind me more of the bronze mint medals than coins.
And what are these??
Commems? If so, then why not follow the classic $10 eagle or $5 half eagle compositions of all other recent Gold commems.
Bullion? Then why not denominate them consistently?
For kids to collect and learn history? Then why not make them the same composition and denomination as the pres $'s? I can't imagine all those kids with Whitman folders buying these at $300+ per pop.
It's kind of an Aardvark... Am I the only one who thinks so?
Rex
<< <i>unless the mint goes for a ridiculous premium over bullion value. >>
Ya think they might?
Hopefully these will translate a bit better, but don't get your hopes up too high.
1. Cost of each coin
2. Mintage numbers
3. Appearence of the finished coin
4. Overal economy
5. Possibility of unexpected
special offerings which will jack up mintages
Camelot
>>>My Collection
Camelot
LOL!!
It does start seeming a lot like the Franklin Mint, no?
Rex
<< <i>Our country is the richest in the world in terms of natural history, innovation & industry, and its contributions to contemporary art; >>
I beg to differ.
I am on a tour serving in Europe. With what I have seen traveling here, travel in the US will never be the same. Pompei, temples of Agrigento, city of Taromina, hilltop city of Enna, Rome, Mt Etna, caves of Slovenia, the Alps, the Adriatic, Stone Henge, the warship Wasa, Ancient Ostia, salt mines of Salzberg, grottos of Maastricht, Mediteranean beaches, Lake Bled, the Vatican Museum, painters galore, the Louve, the Rosetta Stone........... and these are just ones my family and I have seen.
Here is the US contemporary art contribution to NATO. It is an embareassment hang beside an Italian masterpiece.
On coin topic, I think the reverse of the dollar looks good.
AND... If the mintages are low, the "other half" of this forum will go bananas having to endure months of discussion of the value of flippin' 'em.
ps. I'd much rather see white house pets!
<< <i> am on a tour serving in Europe. With what I have seen traveling here, travel in the US will never be the same. Pompei, temples of Agrigento, city of Taromina, hilltop city of Enna, Rome, Mt Etna, caves of Slovenia, the Alps, the Adriatic, Stone Henge, the warship Wasa, Ancient Ostia, salt mines of Salzberg, grottos of Maastricht, Mediteranean beaches, Lake Bled, the Vatican Museum, painters galore, the Louve, the Rosetta Stone........... and these are just ones my family and I have seen. >>
Europe is great! No doubt about it! However, I chose my words carefully: for one thing Europe is not a country, it is dozens of countries; for another, as a new nation, America cannot be compared with 4,000 years of culture, but since WW2 (when many of Europe's artists moved here,) it has been at the cultural forfront of CONTEMPORARY art.
In any case my point still stands: I can think of 100 American things I would rather see celebrated on a ten year gold coin series than 1st spouses.
Respectfully ~ Artist
>>>My Collection
<< <i>2007 Presidential Spouses Gold Proof Coins - Your Comments Here >>
*yawn*
Okay. That wasn't kind. They're a kind of neat idea, and who doesn't like gold? Besides, the First Ladies are probably a more attractive bunch than their husbands. (My ancestor, Abigail Adams, excluded- erk!)
Edit: y'know, I think these could grow on me. I would probably not collect them personally, but the more I look, the more I like the idea.
So while I yawned at first thought, I might give a thumbs-up later.
Collector since 1976. On the CU forums here since 2001.
As I posted earlier, save for perhaps a proof ASE, my annual US Mint purchases have come to an end, which included a 30 year run of buying proof and mint sets every year. No Prexybucks or First Hag bullion for me.
Looking for Denmark 1874 20-Kroner. Please offer.
I am wondering if it is a compromise between making it a "special" commemorative at the $10 level rather than the usual $5 coin and making the coin big enough to actually see the design on it. Usually, the gold commems sell in the range 3x the price of the standard bullion issue of the same denomination, but if they did that in this case, no one would by them because they would have to price them at closer to $1000. I guess the price is lower because there is no charitible cause that benefits from the sale of the coin...
Eric
Mintages will be low for this set that is for sure.....
<< <i>I was also wondering about the mismatch between weight and denomination. A $10 gold is usually 1/4 ounce, and a $25 gold is 1/2...
I am wondering if it is a compromise between making it a "special" commemorative at the $10 level rather than the usual $5 coin and making the coin big enough to actually see the design on it. Usually, the gold commems sell in the range 3x the price of the standard bullion issue of the same denomination, but if they did that in this case, no one would by them because they would have to price them at closer to $1000. I guess the price is lower because there is no charitible cause that benefits from the sale of the coin...
Eric >>
The traditional $10 gold coin issued before 1933 was about a half ounce of gold so they gave this coin the same denomination. Other commem gold coins follow this pattern with many $5 gold coins being about a quarter ounce.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
A series done in silver would have been more appropriate.
Some of these FirstHag™ tenners could be the rarest commems since the 1915 $50s.
Oh, and Dolley Madison -- I'd hit it
<< <i>Hate to be negative but if the women looked like that back when.....I am glad I am alive today. >>
Keep in mind that they didn't have a medicine cabinet full of Mary Kay products back then.
The first ladies for the most part have been very minor people in history. Yes, Dolly Madison, Edith Wilson (who protected her husband after he had a series of strokes), Eleanor Roosevelt, Jackie Kennedy and Hillary Clinton all left their mark in history. But for the most part first ladies have been background players. And some of them, like their husbands are better left to the footnotes of history, not commemorative coins.
It also galls me that these coins are $10 gold size. Why is that? The $5 gold piece has been the ideal denomination because it’s large enough to support a decent design and yet small enough to keep the price down.
I’m really unhappy with this because it’s going to make my collection incomplete. I’m not going to spend the money to buy this stuff. There are just too many classic coins that I want to rate tying up the money on modern, made to sell junk. And yes it’s junk even though it’s made of gold. No doubt the mintages will be small and some speculators will make money, but for the collector this is a lousy deal.
<< <i>
<< <i>Hate to be negative but if the women looked like that back when.....I am glad I am alive today. >>
Keep in mind that they didn't have a medicine cabinet full of Mary Kay products back then. >>
Like Ben Franklin once said "All cats are gray in the dark".
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>Hate to be negative but if the women looked like that back when.....I am glad I am alive today. >>
Unfortunately our ideas of beauty dictate that a women needs to be young or at least have youthful appearance to be considered “beautiful.” For the most part the first ladies were matrons by the time they got to the White House with their husbands.
There have been some very attractive first ladies and some of them were much younger than their husbands. Frances Cleveland was only 21 when she married Grover Cleveland in the White House. He was 48. She was very attractive and was such a political asset that she appeared on a couple of his campaign medalets. Grace Coolidge was looker too, and old Cal adored her. Despite his New England propensity for frugality, Cal was willing to spend the money so that she could dress in style.
And, of course, Jackie Kennedy was stunningly beautiful and sophisticated women when she was the first lady. John Kennedy had it right when he quipped that he was fellow who came along with Jackie when she wowed the Europeans in the early 1960s.
<< <i>Rare or not ,not too many will be collecting a whole set IMO. I'd rather have the "Gold Arts Commemeratives" that the mint made in the 80's and even though those are low mintage they sell for spot or under. Subject matter is just as important as mintage numbers (supply vs demand). You'd have a whole lot of money tied up in these; I think these will be a flop but I could be wrong. >>
Actually, the subject matter influences the demand while the item is available for purchase. After it's no longer available from the Mint, demand can later be induced by a low supply after final mintage figures are released; people who didn't want the coin when it was being issued suddenly want it when they discover the low mintage. The Jackie Robinson $5 is a good example of that.
In other words, not many people may want to run out and buy a $400ish coin for Mrs. Fillmore, but if people discover that only 500 of them were minted after sales have closed, the demand will suddenly materialize.
Here's how I think It will play out. There will be a few popular one's in the series causing high mintages keeping the price in check. The one's no one buys will be the majority with so many to choose from no one will want them since not too many of us will be collecting a set. If this was a one shot coin like the Jackie Robertson I'd agree but you'll have over 30 low mintages to choose from. We'll see what happens.
The more I think about it, the $10, 1/2 ounce .9999 really bothers me. If it's going to be $10, it should follow the classic "Eagle" alloy composition, not the .9999 Buffalo composition with the wrong denomination. I think there's something to be said for tradition. In the 80's, when the mint brought back Gold commems, they still felt like "coins", because they retained the same size, composition, and denomination as the classic circulating pre-1933 gold coins -- a nice nod to tradition. Then, when the Eagles started, that was OK too, because it was a completely new .999 standard for Bullion purposes with nice fractional consistency, matching the output of bullion programs in South Africa, Canada, etc.
For me, this new first lady program is an uncomfortable mix of the two, that doesn't honor the traditions of the mint, or the first ladies. I would start to call it a money grab, but I don't even think it's that, because I don't think it will be very successful. It seems misguided to think someone is going to sink over $16,000 (or over $32,000 if there are UNC and Proof versions) into something like this. If the mint was actually sincere about honoring the first ladies' history and contribution, then they should do so in a format that is more accessible to the everyday citizen (or collector) -- the half dollar would have been MUCH closer to hitting the mark.
I do agree with the earlier comment that after the first year, these mintages are probably going to get microscopic...
Rex
<< <i>Then, when the Eagles started, that was OK too, because it was a completely new .999 standard for Bullion purposes with nice fractional consistency, matching the output of bullion programs in South Africa, Canada, etc. >>
I agree with your post, but just wanted to correct: the AGEs are minted with .9167 fine gold (22 kt), which matches South African krugerrands, but nothing Canadian.
They should have made them as $5 coins. Still wouldn't have a massive mintage, yet they would be available and interesting to everyone. A neat novelty that people could actually give their kids, if they chose.
Mostly just because I like gold.
<< <i>If the 1 Ounce Buffalo is $800 at the mint website that means these well be at least $400 -- YIKES. I'm in just because they will be very low mintage at this price level and because I must be different since I think they don't look half bad.
Mostly just because I like gold.
I like gold, too, but I'd rather buy four-coin Britannia sets in the aftermarket for anywhere from $50 to $400 above melt for a four-coin, 1.85-ounce set (depending on date/mintage, condition and packaging)...and many of them have mintages of 500 or less.
-Gaines
of the first four coins.
Then we shall see.
Camelot
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