Toning Premiums..

OneCent · January 3, 2007 12:28PM

One of the mantra's that I consistently see repeated on this forum is to become educated in regard to coin collecting. I've been attempting to do just that since my re-entry into coin collecting and believe that I've made considerable progress in many areas. Some areas do however, still confound me.

Nicely toned (Monster, if you like) coins command a premium in today's coin market. Sometimes many multiples over CDN ask price. How then is one to determine the fair value of a a "toner" so as not to be getting ripped-off? Is there a CDN for toned coins? I suspect the "answer" will be that the market (read demand) sets the value of this type of coin. If this is the case, how then do we know the market is properly valuing the coin - not hyper-inflated? Certainly time will tell but not very helpful if you want to purchase toned coins today.

What say you about toning premiums?

TomB · January 3, 2007 12:35PM

This type of knowledge is best gained through slow experience. However, my web site offers some information and I also wrote a thread that addresses your questions about the toning premium.

PrivateCoinCollector · January 3, 2007 12:36PM

Soon they will sell at a discount, because the fakes have got too good.

RedTiger · January 3, 2007 1:48PM

There is no rule of thumb. Beware of the many accelerated/artificially toned coins in top tier holders. Like TomB wrote, it is a slow process. There are many coins that are on the edge of being market acceptable one day, and not acceptable the next. Attractive toners can and have commanded huge premiums for many decades. However, to this observer, I see what seem to be many more attractively toned coins now than even five years ago, and many, many more than 10 years ago. A person might say that all these toners were hidden off the market even though they sold for moon money even way back when. Another person might say these toners are being made every day using accelerated means and that they are being unloaded on new collectors.

Learning how to grade takes time. Learning to spot altered coins such as accelerated toners, in my opinion takes longer. Learning the market for certain coins takes about as much time as learning to grade, though is a different type of skill. You can certainly ask the question, but it does not have an easy answer.

What I suggest for all beginners is to buy what you like, and start slow. Talk to people, look at coins in person if at all possible. Beginners will often end up with so-called mistakes: overgraded, cleaned, dipped, artificially toned, low end for the grade coins. That is the nature of the hobby. By starting small, the mistakes will be small. Almost every beginner thinks they won't fall prey to the pitfalls, but many of them do.

Yes, there is a learning curve. There is also a pot of gold, in an enjoyable hobby where a careful collector can get all their money back or even make a small profit. There are not many hobbies where that is even close to true. Again, look at a lots of coins, talk to people, keep your ears and eyes open.

clarkbar04 · January 3, 2007 2:01PM

There are still some that don't get too outrageous. I picked this up a month or 2 ago on flea-bay for fifty-something bucks. It is in a PCGS ms63 holder, and (I think) it is also not one of the most common toner coins. (1882 O) (I also doubt anyone would call this "monster toned" but it is nice looking)

I see plenty that look AT have quite a premium.

If you see one you like, post it here and see if the board thinks its AT or NT.

dragon · January 3, 2007 9:54PM

<< <i>Soon they will sell at a discount, because the fakes have got too good. >>

Uh huh....... been hearing that line now for about 8 yrs. straight as world class toned coins keep breaking record prices.

BobaFett72 · January 3, 2007 11:14PM

<< <i> because the fakes have got too good. >>

Im not sure that I agree... a lot of the fakes have gotten worse, so blatant, so obvious. The "good" fakes seem to command attention by those that want to take them off the market or are so enamored with the artistry that the fact they are fakes doesnt seem to matter to them. The "sky is falling" mentality just doesn't seem to be accurate.

Leo

badger · January 4, 2007 3:01AM

I started and stopped and started and stopped a toned silver proof collection. They are hard to find and I've lost patience a couple of times.

The highest premiums are for the great toners in high grade. For fun, I am completing a collection of toned MS Jeffersons. No consideration for grade. Just nice toning. This is relatively inexpensive and feeds my need for new coins.

Badger

Goldbully · January 4, 2007 3:17AM

<< <i>There are still some that don't get too outrageous. I picked this up a month or 2 ago on flea-bay for fifty-something bucks. It is in a PCGS ms63 holder, and (I think) it is also not one of the most common toner coins. (1882 O) (I also doubt anyone would call this "monster toned" but it is nice looking)

I see plenty that look AT have quite a premium.

If you see one you like, post it here and see if the board thinks its AT or NT. >>

What's AT and NT??? Artificial and Natural I assume?

Tonedbuff · January 4, 2007 3:52AM

Because of the unique identity toning brings to a coin, nicely toned coins will always drive a premium, and that will always include some AT coins. The majority of AT coins clearly appear as AT to even a barely knowledgable collector. The pros will always slide some in...
The challenge in the question about what multiple will be paid is in the purpose of the purchase. Collectors will pay premiums for coins they like, way over market if needed, because it is something they want, an object of art, so to speak. Dealers will be more careful, as they are more focused on the potential upside of the coin.
I've certainly paid 2x retail for a killer toner... actually, even a bit more. Other times, I've not had to pay any premium (the coins in my sig line and my avatar were all bought under retail.

sinin1 · January 4, 2007 4:54AM

if you are asking that question, you should not be paying 50% over bid

if you really like them, and get more experienced, then you could consider 5-10 X bid

there is no set premium, it depends on the coin

for practice, go through Teletrades toned and rainbow designations and decide if the coin deserves any premium at all

then after the auction closes, see which ones sold for more than you think should (be careful of live auction prices as half are probably reserve prices and will not be sold)

ricko · January 4, 2007 5:09AM

OR - - - Stick to non-toners and save money.

Enjoy the coin... Cheers, RickO

JJM · January 4, 2007 7:37AM

Im a very happy collector of budget toners...........no moon money spent here............
you gotta do you homework and be patient, and you can get em

heres a couple I only spent like $10 over for color

I paid $3 bucks for this one !

Toning Premiums..

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