Are Ebay sellers who don't take paypal cheap or smart?

seateddime · January 2, 2007 4:19AM

Opinions? Is paypal worth the hassle and expense?

Cladiator · January 2, 2007 4:22AM

<< Opinions? Is paypal worth the hassle and expense? >>

For me, it's worth the expense and there is no hassle.

Russ · January 2, 2007 4:23AM

Refusing to accept PayPal hurts revenues. Period.

Russ, NCNE

ziggy29 · January 2, 2007 4:24AM

I can understand people who have been burned by chargebacks and stuff staying away. But for those only staying away to avoid fees, I think they are making a mistake. They cost themselves more in reduced sale prices than they'd pay out in Paypal fees.

Bruceswar · January 2, 2007 4:25AM

<< Refusing to accept PayPal hurts revenues. Period.

Russ, NCNE >>

I agree 100%, but that does not make them cheap. Morons maybe, but not cheap.

jmj3esq · January 2, 2007 4:31AM

It is very much worth the hassel. I dont know if I would want to use it a a very high dollar transaction, but for the smaller stuff it is a must. I hate waiting for payment through mail and will pay a little to have immediate, guaranteed payment. I love it.

sinin1 · January 2, 2007 4:34AM

sometimes they are crooked or have had previous bad experiences

Goober · January 2, 2007 4:37AM

I went from totally pro PayPal to totally anti PayPal. Get a $900 chargeback someday and watch the buyer get to keep the merchandise. Then come and tell me how great PayPal is. FWIW I used to agree with all the pro statements being made, and yes it only took one really bad experience in years of having PayPal to sour me.

Russ · January 2, 2007 4:42AM

<< Get a $900 chargeback someday and watch the buyer get to keep the merchandise. Then come and tell me how great PayPal is. >>

Anybody who owns a business that accepts credit cards is subject to the same risk. These days, it's simply part of the landscape. It sucks when it happens, but PayPal is no different than any other merchant processing service in that regard. They do charge a higher fee, but they also accept sellers that many traditional processors would reject.

Russ, NCNE

AnkurJ · January 2, 2007 4:43AM

Paypal is great if you are a buyer, but sometimes sucks if you are a seller. With the way technology is going, it seems prehistoric to me to have to send a check and wait. If I see an auction that doesnt take paypal, I skip right over it.

But with sellers, if its just a case of the percentage, i dont mind paying it so I can get the item quicker.

Ankur

circulated · January 2, 2007 4:46AM

The best policy, imo, is when the seller offers free shipping/insurance (if that is significant) or a discount if paying with money order, check, etc. (ebay has a policy against charging extra when using paypal. This gives the buyer the opportunity (and incentive) to save money and gives the seller the same benefits as any other seller that doesn't accept paypal if, indeed, the auction is paid for by cash. It also makes an actual sale much more certain, and the premium the buyer pays to use paypal (paypal auctions will, for the most part, always bring higher prices for any given item) almost cancels out the premium that the seller gets hit on. This is even more so the case on items that are featured and/or have high reserves or high starting prices - if the item doesn't sell you basically flush that money down the toilet.

I know that as a seller, it's really convenient to have the fees instantly in your PayPal account (although it sucks seeing that huge chunk that was taken out). I also understand on items like bullion it is very hard to profit due to the small margins - unless of course you have acquired the metal at a much cheaper price!

jbsteven · January 2, 2007 4:48AM

<< 

<< Get a $900 chargeback someday and watch the buyer get to keep the merchandise. Then come and tell me how great PayPal is. >>

Anybody who owns a business that accepts credit cards is subject to the same risk. These days, it's simply part of the landscape. It sucks when it happens, but PayPal is no different than any other merchant processing service in that regard. They do charge a higher fee, but they also accept sellers that many traditional processors would reject.

Russ, NCNE >>

I completely agree!

People who get burned from Paypal have never had a merchant account (business that takes credit cards).

I get burned from clients that get the service they ask for and then still get their money back. It is the cost of doing business.

marxbuff · January 2, 2007 4:49AM

<< sometimes they are crooked or have had previous bad experiences >>

To many bad experiences!

sweetwilliet · January 2, 2007 4:51AM

I agree with about everything everyone has said here. I take it for the few things I sell, I like instant guaranteed payment. Once I get a chargeback, that will probably change, but I don't sell high end stuff.

I remember hearing here about someone who got chargebacked about $5000 for a Lincoln cent even though he had delivery conf and the buyer left positive feedback he had received it. Anyone know how that one came out?

boucharda · January 2, 2007 4:52AM

Won't buy unless I can use PayPal...Prefer PayPal when I sell.. ...

flaminio · January 2, 2007 4:53AM

I'd vote "Stupid" -- but that's not one of the choices.

notwilight · January 2, 2007 4:53AM

Paypal is scary on high value sales. OTOH, if you use a paypal e-check you (the seller) only get charged $5. I've been using that feature quite a bit lately. --Jerry

291fifth · January 2, 2007 4:55AM

85-90% of buyers now use PayPal. Refuse to take it and watch your realizations drop as fewer people bid.

bhartman35 · January 2, 2007 5:25AM

(To anyone who doesn't offer PayPal here: Please don't take this the wrong way. I think even being on this board demonstrates a bigger respect for the hobby than a lot of people have. So don't take this personally.)

Not accepting PayPal is a big red flag to me in most cases. Part of the reason is precisely because PayPal is so heavily weighted towards the buyer. If a seller accepts PayPal, it's a fairly good indicator (in my eyes) that they're not looking to make mischief. (As others have noted, it's too easy for the buyer to get his/her money back if there's any problem.)

I offer PayPal in my auctions for the exact same reason. It gives buyers confidence.

The flip side, of course, is you can't (or at least shouldn't) immediately withdraw your funds from the PayPal account once you get paid. I wait a week after the package arrives (so that the 7-day money back guarantee expires) and then I withdraw the funds.

As far as the buyer saying he/she never received the item: Isn't that what insurance is for? If the buyer claims they never got the merchandise, you should be able to get the money back for it. (The item itself is lost, but since they just sold it, I'm assuming that's not much of an issue to the seller...)

Bochiman · January 2, 2007 5:26AM

I like finding auctions for things I want where the seller states only personal check or money order.
Less competition

mcheath · January 2, 2007 5:31AM

>>>>>>>I like finding auctions for things I want where the seller states only personal check or money order.
Less competition >>>>>>>>

IrishMike · January 2, 2007 5:38AM

Give me a break, I sell less than 20 coins a year, all with a reserve and at a fair price. I see no reason to mess around with paypal, one bad transaction would wipe out any benefit from sellling there. Its an aggravation that I don't need. It's not for every one.

Classof67 · January 2, 2007 5:56AM

<< Refusing to accept PayPal hurts revenues. Period.

Russ, NCNE >>

JT

RBinTex · January 2, 2007 5:59AM

Cheap AND stupid!

PerryHall · January 2, 2007 6:12AM

Has anyone here sold something and had delivery confirmation and yet was the victum of a paypal chargeback? It's apparent who has been the victum of paypal chargeback fraud and who hasn't.

coltgus · January 2, 2007 6:12AM

<< Cheap AND stupid! >>

Sometimes I wonder if Ebay is viable long term. One of the most respected high end camera sellers on Ebay suddenly got 15 negs in a row saying they kept the money and did not deliver. And that wasn't the first time as previously a different seller had done the same thing. I've always thought that sending large amounts of money to someone I didn't know was risky to say the least. Then there's Paypal which I guess protects the buyer but what about the seller ? Our world today is populated by crooks who spend every waking hour figuring out how to game the system. If you can go on Ebay and pay with a stolen credit card how long will it be before that becomes pervasive ? It is one thing for amazon.com to write off bad credit card purchases and quite another for a small business. And it is different than doing it in a brick and morter where you have to show up and look into security cameras.

marxbuff · January 2, 2007 6:35AM

IMHO Paypal leaves an open door for the dishonest buyer. Granted, Paypal may be easy for the Paypal seller but only up until the time when the first transaction goes "Really Bad". The piece may have been insured & you know the buyer received it but they still did a charge back for their own financial gain.
Buyer confidence is gained by the eBay feedback system, not because a seller accepts Paypal. Paypal was bought by eBay at a time when many many problems were associated with Paypal transactions. A short time later, eBay advertised they had cleaned up the problems and most everyone believed them, but the problems still persist. Check out this Link if you wish.
I used to take PayPal up until 2001 but got stung to many times by dishonest buyers. Since that time my sales have not been effected by lower bids, only the occasional dumb buyer that can't figure out why i don't take Paypal or those that can't read in my auctions that i don't take it and bid anyway, then complain after.
So call my stupid if you want, thats fine.

I'm a happy camper with "No PayPal".

pf70collector · January 2, 2007 6:40AM

I would think paypal is good for if you are selling low cost items, but when you are approaching the multi-thousand dollar items I can understand why someone would prefer a personal or cashier's check.
But even a check is also subject to a stop payment by the buyer even after it clears your bank.

flaminio · January 2, 2007 6:40AM

<< IMHO Paypal leaves an open door for the dishonest buyer. >>

Personal checks can be stopped, or drawn on an NSF account. Cashier's checks can be forged; Money orders too. If a buyer wants to be dishonest, there's plenty of ways to do it.

The bottom line is for each payment mechanism you exclude, you also exclude a class of bidders. Fewer bidders means lower final values; less money for you. But hey -- if you're OK with less money, more power to you.

bhartman35 · January 2, 2007 6:56AM

<< Check out this Link if you wish.

>>

Many people here have recounted horror stories from PayPal. That much is well-founded. But you do have to realize that the site you link to above isn't an uninterested spectator. There's a banner ad on top for 995merchantaccounts.com.

IMHO, the feedback system is too deeply flawed to be useful. We've seen many discussions here about what feedback to leave for a bad transaction, how to deal with retaliatory feedback, etc. For any seller with 100% feedback, it's possible that some percentage of those people were just afraid to take a neg in response to bad feedback. The same goes for buyers. The only thing a 100% feedback rating really tells you is no one lost enough money to make it worth taking a neg hit for. And if your feedback does drop below 100%, heaven help you.

The feedback system would only work if there was a reasonable system in place. Something like this:

1) Upon payment (or upon filing for a NPB) the seller is allowed to leave feedback.
2) Upon receipt (or after a given period of non-receipt) the buyer gives feedback. If it's negative, Ebay investigates to confirm the negative information.

He Said/He Said, the way it is now, is no reasonable basis for feedback.

clackamas · January 2, 2007 6:58AM

<< Refusing to accept PayPal hurts revenues. Period.

Russ, NCNE >>

What Russ said. I use it all the time and won't bid (unless its a super deal on something I really want) if the seller does not accept it. It saves so much time for me.

CarlWohlforth · January 2, 2007 7:01AM

I don't like PayPal because of the high fees. If I took credit cards directly I wouldn't like those fees either.

I do take PayPal and believe I get slightly better bids because I do. I must admit I like the speed. It sure is nice to get paid within 5 minutes of the end of an auction.

Frankcoins · January 2, 2007 7:06AM

I hate endorsing checks, filling out deposit slips, taking checks to my bank, and if I deposit a bad check, my bank charges ME $5. I prefer Paypal because I want to ship the stuff out of here immediately, not have to hold it and be checking my bank looking for an NSF charge.

Rodius · January 2, 2007 7:17AM

<< Get a $900 chargeback someday and watch the buyer get to keep the merchandise. Then come and tell me how great PayPal is. >>

I am in the middle of a buyer dispute. I mailed out the coin USPS priority with NO insurance(they did not want the optional insurance) on 11/30. I bought the shipping label through paypal with a tracking number. It shows that the package was accepted at the PO. Still the buyer is filing a claim against me for not shipping the coin. Paypal put the funds on hold in my account. We shall see what happens??????? without insurance and proof of mailing, does he still have a claim? It is now in USPS hands; Right?!?

PerryHall · January 2, 2007 7:48AM

Rodius---Insurance is to protect the seller.

Bochiman · January 2, 2007 7:56AM

I don't make insurance optional. If the cost of insurance (and shipping) is more than I charge in the auction (which has happened a lot lately), then I eat the additional cost myself. I would prefer to spend $1-$12 extra bucks (depending on the amount of insurance...one was just over $2000 and that was registered) than to mess with a "lost" item.

circulated · January 2, 2007 7:57AM

<<...Insurance is to protect the seller. >>

Not necessarily on ebay. The seller can state that insurance is optional and at the risk is on the buyer. I would think just making insurance optional (without even stating who assumes the risk) automatically puts the risk on the buyer. As long as the insurance fee is exactly what the post office charges and the buyer decides to save money by not insuring it that is a calulated risk on the buyer's part. The "optional" choice is 100% the buyer's choice.

planetsteve · January 2, 2007 7:59AM

Rodius, from what I've seen several times on the Ebay community board on shipping, insurance is indeed for the seller's protection. Never make insurance optional. Regardless of whatever disclaimers a seller states in their ads ("I am not responsible for uninsured items"), Paypal sees it as the seller's responsibility to get the item to the buyer. It is likely that Paypal will rule against you in this case.

Frankly, I almost never buy optional insurance -- and depending on the situation, I would try to chargeback on an unreceived item. As a seller, I buy insurance for sold items over about $100 or so. Insurance is either "included in S&H fees" or "not available on this item." That Ebay allows an "optional" choice is probably unfair to sellers.

What other situations can lead to Paypal chargebacks?

flaminio · January 2, 2007 8:00AM

<< Get a $900 chargeback someday and watch the buyer get to keep the merchandise. >>

Would it have made you feel better if it was a $900 bounced check? Or a $900 forged money order?

Rodius · January 2, 2007 8:02AM

you all are right, I have listed a couple of items in the last two weeks and I have included insurance in the shipping. I realize the hard way that this is the only way to go.

Thanks, this may cost me a couple hundred $$ if Paypal rules in the buyers favor. I do have two other coins same date and grade. I may have to eat this one.

TwoSides2aCoin · January 2, 2007 8:04AM

well I got this narrowed down to : Are sellers who don't take PAY PAL cheap or smart ....
I'll reserve my judgement of those who use it or don't use it, however, I will capitalize on the opportunity to add nothing meaningful to the thread

planetsteve · January 2, 2007 8:06AM

<< you all are right, I have listed a couple of items in the last two weeks and I have included insurance in the shipping. I realize the hard way that this is the only way to go.

Thanks, this may cost me a couple hundred $$ if Paypal rules in the buyers favor. I do have two other coins same date and grade. I may have to eat this one.

>>

Sorry about your misfortune Rodius. It is interesting that Ebay doesn't bother to spell out the ramifications of insurance and shipping so that every seller knows what the risks are.

It may be that the federal, state and local laws around these issues make up a rat's nest that is impossible to concisely explain with 100% accuracy. Maybe the truth is somewhere in between the arguments that circulated and I are making.

Russ · January 2, 2007 8:18AM

<< <<...Insurance is to protect the seller. >>

Not necessarily on ebay. The seller can state that insurance is optional and at the risk is on the buyer. >>

You can state that 1000 times in 100 point typeface and you will still lose the PayPal claim if the buyer files a chargeback for non-receipt and you cannot prove that they received the item.

Russ, NCNE

Rodius · January 2, 2007 8:20AM

Even with a tracking number that USPS accepted the package at the post office????????

Russ · January 2, 2007 8:24AM

<< Even with a tracking number that USPS accepted the package at the post office???????? >>

Unless you can prove they actually received it, yes, you will lose. And, that proof has to be available online.

Russ, NCNE

circulated · January 2, 2007 8:26AM

<<You can state that 1000 times in 100 point typeface and you will still lose the PayPal claim if the buyer files a chargeback for non-receipt and you cannot prove that they received the item>>

Many times if the buyer decides to not insure the item I will add signature confimation. While this is useless if the post office loses the package it prevents the buyer from making a false claim.

Russ · January 2, 2007 8:28AM

<< <<You can state that 1000 times in 100 point typeface and you will still lose the PayPal claim if the buyer files a chargeback for non-receipt and you cannot prove that they received the item>>

Many times if the buyer decides to not insure the item I will add signature confimation. While this is useless if the post office loses the package it prevents the buyer from making a false claim. >>

That is a very smart move. Personally, I don't give the buyer an option. Insurance is included in my shipping charge, and always has been.

Russ, NCNE

Boom · January 2, 2007 8:30AM

<< Opinions? Is paypal worth the hassle and expense? >>

Yes. Go hire someone that does all that paypal does for what paypal charges!

Good Luck!

Rodius · January 2, 2007 8:34AM

Oh S*&t. I am screwed.

Boom · January 2, 2007 8:37AM

PM sent

IrishMike · January 2, 2007 8:56AM

<< 

<< Get a $900 chargeback someday and watch the buyer get to keep the merchandise. >>

Would it have made you feel better if it was a $900 bounced check? Or a $900 forged money order? >>

This nothing like the delayed liability you can take it on the chin with paypal. If your receive a cashiers check you can call the back to verify it, send it in as a collection item. On a personal check the drawing bank has only one day to pay or deny the check and it can be sent it as a collection item also. Give the Chicken Little rountine a rest. Just don't send the item till the check is cleared. Man some of youse can make a major earth scenario out of any thing. In 5 years I've never had a bogus check.

Are Ebay sellers who don't take paypal cheap or smart?

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