<< <i>Get a $900 chargeback someday and watch the buyer get to keep the merchandise. >>
Would it have made you feel better if it was a $900 bounced check? Or a $900 forged money order? >>
Yes it would have. PayPal has the power to decide whether or not to allow the chargeback based upon evidence given. I've had a friend who lives in another city sell an item, get positive Ebay feedback as well as an email stating the item works great and he's "loving it" lose in a chargeback situation. Reason being? The buyer said he received the item broke. I'm not too naive to think that there's not a bad apple or two in every bunch, but I've read and heard of too many horror stories to think that PayPal isn't out to cover their butts regardless of truth in a claim.
Prost!
Why step over the dollar to get to the cent? Because it's a 55DDO.
I got a PP account very early( they gave me $50 to join) and i used it frequently to buy, and overbuy sometimes too. My PP account was based on a credit card then, and I was cool with that. I used one cc only for PP purchases. Then out of nowhere the Post Office changed my ZIP code by one #. I didn't move, they just changed the last #. Well, when I notified PP, and my ccs, you would have thought I robbed a bank.They shut down my account instantly, leaving me short on some existing bids, and were completely non-responsive to my explanations. I'm a little hazy here, because it was 4 years ago, or more, but I had to reapply like a new customer, and they sent me a private activation code through snail mail that I needed to open this new account. To sum up, I got the code, but it didn't work, no one at PP could explain why it didn't work, and all I could do was reapply by them sending me a new activation code. This took 3-4 months, during which time I learned that there is life on ebay after PP, as 99% of sellers took checks. I lost faith in PP, and it was about this time they wanted a bank account # to base the account on, and I thought no way would I give these bozos access to my bank. I sell a little, and would consider restarting with them if I needed to get more serious about selling, but I have had some problems with them so that I have little trust in them. And for them to be absorbed by ebay is not a plus IMO. I have less trust in ebay theses days, especially for coins. regards, mike.
"If someone says 'A penny for your thoughts' and you give them your 2 cents worth, what happens to the extra penny?" G.Carlin
<< <i><<You can state that 1000 times in 100 point typeface and you will still lose the PayPal claim if the buyer files a chargeback for non-receipt and you cannot prove that they received the item>>
Many times if the buyer decides to not insure the item I will add signature confimation. While this is useless if the post office loses the package it prevents the buyer from making a false claim. >>
That is a very smart move. Personally, I don't give the buyer an option. Insurance is included in my shipping charge, and always has been.
Russ, NCNE >>
Same here for $50 or more, the one time I had a buyer say he didn't receive an item ($12 total), I promptly refunded his money. I have no problem with that. I feel it's my responsibility to get the item in the buyer's hand, and I need to take the steps to make that happen. My feedback is 100% at 2403.
Actually I've so soured on ebay's overgraded, cleaned, underhanded, fraudulent listings I find I don't even browse like I used to. I have settled on 6-12 reliable (so far) dealers that I depend on for my collection. I much prefer a direct cc transaction, than one that involves PP, and if I don't use ebay, I don't need PP.
"If someone says 'A penny for your thoughts' and you give them your 2 cents worth, what happens to the extra penny?" G.Carlin
The two times I've been ripped off eBay were through people who did not accept PayPal. Those two times being the ONLY time I've paid with something other than PayPal.
Take it for what it's worth.
I'm actually still waiting on an auction I won back at the end of November..........
WTB: Eric Plunk cards, jersey (signed or unsigned), and autographs. Basically anything related to him
<< <i>Opinions? Is paypal worth the hassle and expense? >>
The hassle is for your customer who has to take valuable time to either get a money order or write checks,mail and wait for them to clear. Build the cost into your coin. I for one will not even consider an auction that will not take paypal unless it is a one of a kind impossible to find item. Customer service goes a long way! IMHO
PEACE! This is the first day of the rest of your life.
Sometimes I wonder if Ebay is viable long term. One of the most respected high end camera sellers on Ebay suddenly got 15 negs in a row saying they kept the money and did not deliver. And that wasn't the first time as previously a different seller had done the same thing. I've always thought that sending large amounts of money to someone I didn't know was risky to say the least. Then there's Paypal which I guess protects the buyer but what about the seller ? Our world today is populated by crooks who spend every waking hour figuring out how to game the system. If you can go on Ebay and pay with a stolen credit card how long will it be before that becomes pervasive ? It is one thing for amazon.com to write off bad credit card purchases and quite another for a small business. And it is different than doing it in a brick and morter where you have to show up and look into security cameras. >>
This is all well and good if you have "Brick and morter" shop near your home. Many items found on Ebay could only be found at national meetings or if one traveled the world. It has a place and you have do try and do your home work before you do business. In many cases if you check into feedback and other sites you can find the bad apples.
PEACE! This is the first day of the rest of your life.
I take PayPal, checks and money orders. When I'm selling a high dollar item on Ebay, I don't mess around with specifying shipping and insurance. I go with free shipping and eat whatever the cost is to ship the item by insured registered mail with a return receipt. This takes the decision about insurance out of the hands of the buyer and helps to protect me. Free shipping also seems to bring higher bids in, helping to offset the actual shipping cost. YMMV
<< <i>The two times I've been ripped off eBay were through people who did not accept PayPal. Those two times being the ONLY time I've paid with something other than PayPal.
Take it for what it's worth. >>
I purchased a number of items in 2006 on eBay...always pay promptly (usually with PayPal) and receive great feedback scores. One purchase last year went sour; the seller would not even respond to messages. The fact that the seller would only take a money order or certified check raises a 'red flag' for me; I will still consider buying, but am more cautious about it.
Not a necessity at all IMHO. The way I see it, too many consumers have been brainwashed into the psyche of convenient, instant gratification of generation X. Whatever happened to patience and perseverance? Or are we all just paranoid about licking stamps and affixing them to an envelope?
<< <i>Not a necessity at all IMHO. The way I see it, too many consumers have been brainwashed into the psyche of convenient, instant gratification of generation X. Whatever happened to patience and perseverance? Or are we all just paranoid about licking stamps and affixing them to an envelope? >>
Where you been, grandpa? Stamps these days stick all by themselves -- no lickin' required.
I haven't read any of this thread yet, but if you don't take paypal, you are losing a lot of bids. I usually won't bother to bid when it makes me go to the post office and get a money order. I don't like paying 95 cents for a money order plus 39 cents for postage. I use paypal on ebay and buy things, including coins from my paypal account. Also use it in my regular business and it makes me more money. You should be able to give up 4%,
I have seen several coins that would be in my collection right now, had I been able to pay with PayPal. I have seen a few of them recirculate, and I think, that coin could have been sold several times over.
<< <i>I haven't read any of this thread yet, but if you don't take paypal, you are losing a lot of bids. I usually won't bother to bid when it makes me go to the post office and get a money order. I don't like paying 95 cents for a money order plus 39 cents for postage. I use paypal on ebay and buy things, including coins from my paypal account. Also use it in my regular business and it makes me more money. You should be able to give up 4%, >>
The reason sellers of high value items avoid PayPal seems to be more due to the buyer protection aspects and potential hassles than the fees. It seems that PayPal protects the buyer and money orders protect the seller. Whether one takes PayPal or not seems to be as much a risk management decision as a strict costs one.
I can not speak for other ebay sellers but I have about 2500 reasons not to use paypal.
Last month, December 2006 I had 7 buyers all from a country other than USA, claim they never received their package, needless to say I'm out 2500 bucks........
<< <i>I can not speak for other ebay sellers but I have about 2500 reasons not to use paypal.
Last month, December 2006 I had 7 buyers all from a country other than USA, claim they never received their package, needless to say I'm out 2500 bucks........
Cheap or Smart????? >>
I'm not sure if selling expensive items to people outside the USA is smart. Even Amazon.com doesn't sell to people in many countries.
<< <i>Last month, December 2006 I had 7 buyers all from a country other than USA, claim they never received their package, needless to say I'm out 2500 bucks........ >>
Which is why I don't ship outside the US, and never have, (other than a couple items to Canada). It is not news that shipping overseas is risky.
I started on eBay in 1998, well before Paypal and had no problems then sending checks (or Cash!) for items then - even overseas, why should I change now?
If the seller does not take Paypal I write a check and drop it in the mail at the office, where's the great effort in that? I've been the winning bidder on eBay more than 1100 times and never been ripped off, I guess that the world coin market is just more civil.
R.I.P. Wayne, Brad Collecting: Conder tokens 19th & 20th Century coins from Great Britain and the Realm
<< <i>I started on eBay in 1998, well before Paypal and had no problems then sending checks (or Cash!) for items then - even overseas, why should I change now?
If the seller does not take Paypal I write a check and drop it in the mail at the office, where's the great effort in that? I've been the winning bidder on eBay more than 1100 times and never been ripped off, I guess that the world coin market is just more civil. >>
*JE RENAIS DE MES CENDRES* . "Always Do Right, This Will Gratify Some And Astonish The Others" - Mark Twain
<< <i>Opinions? Is paypal worth the hassle and expense? >>
I haven't found there to be any hassle using it either as a buyer or a seller; contrary-wise, I enjoy the convenience, speed, and security it affords me.
I never thought that growing old would happen so fast. - Jim
Interesting discussion. I don't sell on e-bay, however I have purchased quite-a-bit in the coin arena. I have passed up many an auction when PP wasn't an option for payment, even when I really liked the coin. The first thing I check is if the seller accepts PP. Sellers like the immediate payment and I haven't had a problem yet, knock on wood. Just my input
<< <i>I started on eBay in 1998, well before Paypal and had no problems then sending checks (or Cash!) for items then - even overseas, why should I change now?
If the seller does not take Paypal I write a check and drop it in the mail at the office, where's the great effort in that? I've been the winning bidder on eBay more than 1100 times and never been ripped off, I guess that the world coin market is just more civil. >>
The big risk you take in sending cash or a check is the seller turning around and saying, "Check? What check? I never got a check!". You're slightly better off with a MO, but once they have it in their hand, it's in their discretion whether or not they refund your money for any reason. I was screwed that way once, and will never go that route again.
The bottom line for me is, if you're a buyer and don't use PayPal, you're essentially at the seller's mercy once they get your money. The most retribution you can mete out through Ebay is a neg, and that certainly won't get your money back.
It's absolutely true that you can get robbed as a seller with PayPal. Which is why, if you're selling something expensive, you go the extra mile to make sure it goes where it's supposed to go, and you don't move the money out of your PayPal account until you're sure everything's okay with the transaction.
As far as "patience and perseverance" goes, I reserve that for crossword puzzles. Why should a customer be patient and persevere with your transaction, when they can go to the guy behind you and conduct a transaction in seconds?
If you haven't noticed, I'm single and miserable and I've got four albums of bitching about it that I would offer as proof.
Paypal should have been set up so that the BUYER was charged the 4% fee. It is a much greater convenience for the buyer than it is for the seller, as witnessed by these postings.
Regarding PayPay (Freudian slip?), I am Cheap. PayPal is unnecessary. As a Buyer, I take my chances with a money order or a bank check by Certified Mail if I want it in a hurry. But, most important - before I even bid on an item, I scrutinize their feedback - what they've sold, what they buy, and the comments. I think that rules out most bad actors.
As a Seller, I control the payment terms, and I don't budge on my terms. I recently had a "Power Seller" who simply buys and resells modern stuff by the thousands - stopped payment on his check because he wanted to use PayPal, contrary to my stated terms. Now, it looks like I am going to get a bad feedback when I file my non-paying bidder claim. And of course, Ebay is no help. Comes with the territory, I guess.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
"Paypal should have been set up so that the BUYER was charged the 4% fee."
Think about it. That would never fly (although Neteller does it that way - compare their respective volumes of person to person transactions ).
If I had to pay an extra 4% I'd take my sweet time & mail a check & let the seller sweat the delay. If THEY want money faster, let THEM pay.
I do without ANY complaints. It all comes down to the mindset of people. Small minded small timers or real businessmen that understand which expenses are actually a NET POSITIVE to their cash flow.
Heck, for the cheapskates: don't sell on eBay at all & cut those expenses 100%!!!
Maybe if you sellers in love with Paypal get a spot on the list here you may rethink your business strategy. I don't do Paypal, but if I did, it would be as a buyer only.
<<As a Buyer, I take my chances with a money order or a bank check by Certified Mail if I want it in a hurry.>>
This makes very little sense, imo. PayPal is VERY good for the buyer. It's almost perfect! Fot a seller, that's a whole different story...
<<. I recently had a "Power Seller" who simply buys and resells modern stuff by the thousands - stopped payment on his check because he wanted to use PayPal, contrary to my stated terms. >>
You accept checks but stopped payment on his check because he expressed a desire to use paypal? And then YOU are filing a non-paying bidder against him?
No, how could I stop payment on his check? Only the check issuer can do that.
He started hounding me about not accepting PayPal. He then sent me a check, and then he decided to stop payment on it.
Then he started going on and on about how questionable my auctions all seemed, because I hadn't listed anything since last August.
It only got weirder and weirder. He said I had relisted the auction, when all I did was to list multiple auctions for the same groupings of sets, and I used the same description because they had the same defects. He started implying that I was engaged in some sort of nefarious behaviors, which really did tick me off. Life is too short.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
Comments
<< <i>
<< <i>Get a $900 chargeback someday and watch the buyer get to keep the merchandise. >>
Would it have made you feel better if it was a $900 bounced check? Or a $900 forged money order? >>
Yes it would have. PayPal has the power to decide whether or not to allow the chargeback based upon evidence given. I've had a friend who lives in another city sell an item, get positive Ebay feedback as well as an email stating the item works great and he's "loving it" lose in a chargeback situation. Reason being? The buyer said he received the item broke. I'm not too naive to think that there's not a bad apple or two in every bunch, but I've read and heard of too many horror stories to think that PayPal isn't out to cover their butts regardless of truth in a claim.
Why step over the dollar to get to the cent? Because it's a 55DDO.
"Penny smart, pound foolish" comes to mind...
Dave
<< <i>
<< <i><<You can state that 1000 times in 100 point typeface and you will still lose the PayPal claim if the buyer files a chargeback for non-receipt and you cannot prove that they received the item>>
Many times if the buyer decides to not insure the item I will add signature confimation. While this is useless if the post office loses the package it prevents the buyer from making a false claim. >>
That is a very smart move. Personally, I don't give the buyer an option. Insurance is included in my shipping charge, and always has been.
Russ, NCNE >>
Same here for $50 or more, the one time I had a buyer say he didn't receive an item ($12 total), I promptly refunded his money. I have no problem with that. I feel it's my responsibility to get the item in the buyer's hand, and I need to take the steps to make that happen. My feedback is 100% at 2403.
JT
<< <i>I much prefer a direct cc transaction, than one that involves PP >>
Direct credit card transactions are prohibitively expensive for most individual sellers.
If anyone can find an online mechanism to allow credit card payments that's cheaper than PayPal, please do post it.
<< <i>If anyone can find an online mechanism to allow credit card payments that's cheaper than PayPal, please do post it. >>
Pretty much any merchant account is cheaper than PayPal. Mine is.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>Pretty much any merchant account is cheaper than PayPal. Mine is. >>
Yes, but probably not with the small sales volume many casual eBay sellers do.
Take it for what it's worth.
I'm actually still waiting on an auction I won back at the end of November..........
Positive BST: WhiteThunder (x2), Ajaan, onefasttalon, mirabela, Wizard1, cucamongacoin, mccardguy1
Negative BST: NONE!
<< <i>Opinions? Is paypal worth the hassle and expense? >>
The hassle is for your customer who has to take valuable time to either get a money order or write checks,mail and wait for them to clear. Build the cost into your coin. I for one will not even consider an auction that will not take paypal unless it is a one of a kind impossible to find item. Customer service goes a long way! IMHO
Fred, Las Vegas, NV
<< <i>
<< <i>Cheap AND stupid! >>
Sometimes I wonder if Ebay is viable long term. One of the most respected high end camera sellers on Ebay suddenly got 15 negs in a row saying they kept the money and did not deliver. And that wasn't the first time as previously a different seller had done the same thing. I've always thought that sending large amounts of money to someone I didn't know was risky to say the least. Then there's Paypal which I guess protects the buyer but what about the seller ? Our world today is populated by crooks who spend every waking hour figuring out how to game the system. If you can go on Ebay and pay with a stolen credit card how long will it be before that becomes pervasive ? It is one thing for amazon.com to write off bad credit card purchases and quite another for a small business. And it is different than doing it in a brick and morter where you have to show up and look into security cameras. >>
This is all well and good if you have "Brick and morter" shop near your home. Many items found on Ebay could only be found at national meetings or if one traveled the world. It has a place and you have do try and do your home work before you do business. In many cases if you check into feedback and other sites you can find the bad apples.
Fred, Las Vegas, NV
<< <i>The two times I've been ripped off eBay were through people who did not accept PayPal. Those two times being the ONLY time I've paid with something other than PayPal.
Take it for what it's worth. >>
I purchased a number of items in 2006 on eBay...always pay promptly (usually with PayPal) and receive great feedback scores. One purchase last year went sour; the seller would not even respond to messages. The fact that the seller would only take a money order or certified check raises a 'red flag' for me; I will still consider buying, but am more cautious about it.
Ken
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.american-legacy-coins.com
<< <i>Not a necessity at all IMHO. The way I see it, too many consumers have been brainwashed into the psyche of convenient, instant gratification of generation X. Whatever happened to patience and perseverance? Or are we all just paranoid about licking stamps and affixing them to an envelope?
Where you been, grandpa? Stamps these days stick all by themselves -- no lickin' required.
<< <i>Stamps these days stick all by themselves -- no lickin' required. >>
That innovation is probably what killed the collector stamp market.
Russ, NCNE
https://www.pcgs.com/SetRegistry/collectors-showcase/world-coins/one-coin-per-year-1600-2017/2422
<< <i>I haven't read any of this thread yet, but if you don't take paypal, you are losing a lot of bids. I usually won't bother to bid when it makes me go to the post office and get a money order. I don't like paying 95 cents for a money order plus 39 cents for postage. I use paypal on ebay and buy things, including coins from my paypal account. Also use it in my regular business and it makes me more money. You should be able to give up 4%, >>
The reason sellers of high value items avoid PayPal seems to be more due to the buyer protection aspects and potential hassles than the fees. It seems that PayPal protects the buyer and money orders protect the seller. Whether one takes PayPal or not seems to be as much a risk management decision as a strict costs one.
Last month, December 2006 I had 7 buyers all from a country other than USA, claim they never received their package, needless to say I'm out 2500 bucks........
Cheap or Smart?????
AL
<< <i>I can not speak for other ebay sellers but I have about 2500 reasons not to use paypal.
Last month, December 2006 I had 7 buyers all from a country other than USA, claim they never received their package, needless to say I'm out 2500 bucks........
Cheap or Smart????? >>
I'm not sure if selling expensive items to people outside the USA is smart. Even Amazon.com doesn't sell to people in many countries.
<< <i>
I'm not sure if selling expensive items to people outside the USA is smart. Even Amazon.com doesn't sell to people in many countries. >>
well believe me the only oversea's transactions I will make now are ones payed with a check......
AL
I have no way of accepting credit cards.
<< <i>Last month, December 2006 I had 7 buyers all from a country other than USA, claim they never received their package, needless to say I'm out 2500 bucks........ >>
Which is why I don't ship outside the US, and never have, (other than a couple items to Canada). It is not news that shipping overseas is risky.
Russ, NCNE
If the seller does not take Paypal I write a check and drop it in the mail at the office, where's the great effort in that?
I've been the winning bidder on eBay more than 1100 times and never been ripped off, I guess that the world coin market is just more civil.
Collecting:
Conder tokens
19th & 20th Century coins from Great Britain and the Realm
<< <i>I started on eBay in 1998, well before Paypal and had no problems then sending checks (or Cash!) for items then - even overseas, why should I change now?
If the seller does not take Paypal I write a check and drop it in the mail at the office, where's the great effort in that?
I've been the winning bidder on eBay more than 1100 times and never been ripped off, I guess that the world coin market is just more civil.
.
"Always Do Right, This Will Gratify Some And Astonish The Others" - Mark Twain
<< <i>Opinions? Is paypal worth the hassle and expense? >>
I haven't found there to be any hassle using it either as a buyer or a seller; contrary-wise, I enjoy the convenience, speed, and security it affords me.
- Jim
<< <i>I started on eBay in 1998, well before Paypal and had no problems then sending checks (or Cash!) for items then - even overseas, why should I change now?
If the seller does not take Paypal I write a check and drop it in the mail at the office, where's the great effort in that?
I've been the winning bidder on eBay more than 1100 times and never been ripped off, I guess that the world coin market is just more civil.
The big risk you take in sending cash or a check is the seller turning around and saying, "Check? What check? I never got a check!". You're slightly better off with a MO, but once they have it in their hand, it's in their discretion whether or not they refund your money for any reason. I was screwed that way once, and will never go that route again.
The bottom line for me is, if you're a buyer and don't use PayPal, you're essentially at the seller's mercy once they get your money. The most retribution you can mete out through Ebay is a neg, and that certainly won't get your money back.
It's absolutely true that you can get robbed as a seller with PayPal. Which is why, if you're selling something expensive, you go the extra mile to make sure it goes where it's supposed to go, and you don't move the money out of your PayPal account until you're sure everything's okay with the transaction.
As far as "patience and perseverance" goes, I reserve that for crossword puzzles. Why should a customer be patient and persevere with your transaction, when they can go to the guy behind you and conduct a transaction in seconds?
-- Adam Duritz, of Counting Crows
My Ebay Auctions
<< <i>no paypal = red flag, I bypass those auctions almost every single time. >>
Me too.
As a Seller, I control the payment terms, and I don't budge on my terms. I recently had a "Power Seller" who simply buys and resells modern stuff by the thousands - stopped payment on his check because he wanted to use PayPal, contrary to my stated terms. Now, it looks like I am going to get a bad feedback when I file my non-paying bidder claim. And of course, Ebay is no help. Comes with the territory, I guess.
I knew it would happen.
Think about it. That would never fly (although Neteller does it that way - compare their respective volumes of person to person transactions
If I had to pay an extra 4% I'd take my sweet time & mail a check & let the seller sweat the delay. If THEY want money faster, let THEM pay.
I do without ANY complaints. It all comes down to the mindset of people. Small minded small timers or real businessmen that understand which expenses are actually a NET POSITIVE to their cash flow.
Heck, for the cheapskates: don't sell on eBay at all & cut those expenses 100%!!!
So that's why the glue tastes so bad nowadays.
Ray
I don't do Paypal, but if I did, it would be as a buyer only.
Ray
This makes very little sense, imo. PayPal is VERY good for the buyer. It's almost perfect! Fot a seller, that's a whole different story...
<<. I recently had a "Power Seller" who simply buys and resells modern stuff by the thousands - stopped payment on his check because he wanted to use PayPal, contrary to my stated terms. >>
You accept checks but stopped payment on his check because he expressed a desire to use paypal? And then YOU are filing a non-paying bidder against him?
He started hounding me about not accepting PayPal. He then sent me a check, and then he decided to stop payment on it.
Then he started going on and on about how questionable my auctions all seemed, because I hadn't listed anything since last August.
It only got weirder and weirder. He said I had relisted the auction, when all I did was to list multiple auctions for the same groupings of sets, and I used the same description because they had the same defects. He started implying that I was engaged in some sort of nefarious behaviors, which really did tick me off. Life is too short.
I knew it would happen.