saintguru, you really surprised me.... And whether you care or not about my opinion, I am very disappointed, as I believe you are a better person then this displayed behavior.
Be Bop A Lula!! "Senorita HepKitty" "I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
<< <i>I happen to think this stuff is cool. I collect some of it. It's not about the fact that they are ultra moderns. It's not about the fact that they are bullion coins. It's not about disapproving of what others choose to collect. It's simply wondering if the huge premiums will stand the test of time, and questioning whether or not it's really "collecting" if the goal is to quickly flip for a few bucks, or to hold on, keep several sets sealed with the primary motive being future profit. Or, for that matter, wondering if it's good for the hobby for long-time collectors and purchasers of Mint products to be shut out of an offering because they weren't first in line to hoard them all. Note that there's nothing about enjoying the COINS. That's what puzzles me about all this.
I agree with this- I see nothing wrong with a little critical analysis of segments of the hobby. I don't wet myself with anger when someone critiques morgans or proof franklins.... >>
I don't mind intelligent critiques but it seems like many posts are of the "ASEs/AGEs are not coins" type that get a yawn from me. Hasn't that been discussed to death?
but....but....but....TPGs slab bullion and modern commems under their COIN grading services......So they must be coins, right?
LOL. They are only technically legal tender. Collectible? Without a doubt. In the same class as REAL COINS? No way.
This isn't peeing in anyone's coffee. Just calling a spade a spade. TPGs grade these because there is an apparent (or market manipulated) need to do so and it makes decent business sense. Really rare coins are not represented in high numbers and are not regraded with that high of a frequency. Companies, particularly public companies, need to grow their business and earnings. That is the bottom line. Working with these ultramodern pseudocoins is necessary and helps the rest of us pay reasonable grading fees. In that way, I do appreciate the Mint's insatiable need for expanding collector programs and the collector base that satisfies it. They keep our favorite TPG(s) in business with reasonable fees for all of us.
The collectors are in a separate hobby with different qualifications, a different market, and different potential.
<< <i>but....but....but....TPGs slab bullion and modern commems under their COIN grading services......So they must be coins, right?
LOL. They are only technically legal tender. Collectible? Without a doubt. In the same class as REAL COINS? No way. >>
To me this is just bashing, plain and simple. ASEs/AGEs are real coins when using objective definitions for "real coins". Objectively speaking you have CLT and NCLT. The terms "real coins" and "pseudocoins" in this context is just used to antagonize, i.e. bash. As I said *yawn*
I don't disagree with your specific points, but I'd prefer people use objective terms, like NCLT, and subjective bashing terms.
Morgan dollars were, for the most part NCLT, but still represented $1 as stated on their design. I hardly doubt ASEs will represent anything nearly as numismatically interesting anytime in the future. They are indeed accessible for budget-minded collectors and are nice designs. I won't call them real coins because they are not. You won't buy bread or gas with an ASE dollar for stated dollar. They are produced by the US Mint and are technically legal tender and that is as close as they get.
<< <i>but....but....but....TPGs slab bullion and modern commems under their COIN grading services......So they must be coins, right?
LOL. They are only technically legal tender. Collectible? Without a doubt. In the same class as REAL COINS? No way. >>
To me this is just bashing, plain and simple. ASEs are real coins when using objective definitions for "real coins". Objectively speaking you have CLT and NCLT. The term "real coins" in this context is just used to antagonize. As I said *yawn* >>
"Collectible coins"," collectible bullion coins"--what is the real difference, in the earliest sense all of our coins were based on bullion value--otherwise, why the arrows for lowered silver content in 1853 and 1873? I prefer the "classic" issues, but, since when have I been right about anything?--just ask my wife.
<< <i>Morgan dollars were, for the most part NCLT, but still represented $1 as stated on their design. I hardly doubt ASEs will represent anything nearly as numismatically interesting anytime in the future. They are indeed accessible for budget-minded collectors and are nice designs. I won't call them real coins because they are not. You won't buy bread or gas with an ASE dollar for stated dollar. They are produced by the US Mint and are technically legal tender and that is as close as they get. >>
As you say, they are technically legal tender. They are also technically coins which is why I consider statements saying they are not "real coins" or that they are "pseudocoins" to be bashing, because those terms are technically incorrect when used in that manner. I can only assume people like to use incorrect terms to antagonize others.
As for Morgans, my impression is that there is intense collector interest in them exactly because many of them never circulated. However, as you say, they were exchanged at their face value and some of them did circulate. I agree with many of your points however I would have prefered your earlier statement as:
<< <i>They are only technically legal tender. Collectible? Without a doubt. In the same class as circulating coins? No way. >>
<< <i>saintguru, you really surprised me.... And whether you care or not about my opinion, I am very disappointed, as I believe you are a better person then this displayed behavior. >>
LB...Let's clarify how things went down. This was a "soup-spoon fun" thread on my part. Hence, the asbestos suit in my first post.
There is NO designation of YN anywhere. IF I knew someone was a YN perhaps I would have not posted the pic...but both the kid AND his father have no profiles. I don't know from son, daughter, YN, ON, FBI, CIA, or PETA.....so when I get blasted and insulted as being "INDECENT" by someone in public instead of a PM, I reacted. That's it's the way I am, and that's how I do things. There are probably dozens of posters who have received PM's from me if I disagreed with something that I thought would be better served by being handled in a more discreet manner.
So now you have an edit. I just hope that our "disguised" YNs aren't influenced by this one. As for being indecent, I find that laughable. It may have offended a few, but it wasn't indecent.
<< <i>Morgan dollars were, for the most part NCLT, but still represented $1 as stated on their design. I hardly doubt ASEs will represent anything nearly as numismatically interesting anytime in the future. They are indeed accessible for budget-minded collectors and are nice designs. I won't call them real coins because they are not. You won't buy bread or gas with an ASE dollar for stated dollar. They are produced by the US Mint and are technically legal tender and that is as close as they get. >>
As you say, they are technically legal tender. They are also technically coins which is why I consider statements saying they are not "real coins" or that they are "pseudocoins" to be bashing, because those terms are technically incorrect when used in that manner. I can only assume people like to use incorrect terms to antagonize others.
As for Morgans, my impression is that there is intense collector interest in them exactly because many of them never circulated. However, as you say, they were exchanged at their face value and some of them did circulate. I agree with many of your points however I would have prefered your earlier statement as:
<< <i>They are only technically legal tender. Collectible? Without a doubt. In the same class as circulating coins? No way. >>
>>
It is not bashing. Both are collectible but they don't mix and are entirely different entities as collectibles. Semantics aside, they really are not coins as instruments of commerce. They are like coins, pseudocoins as I put it, but not really functional coins. Perhaps in the collapse of the US dollar, the roles could be reversed however.
Morgans are more available, and in higher grades specifically, because they largely did not circulate. They are not colelcted primarily for that reason though. Investors in the last bull market liked them because of their ubiquitous availability in MS65. Collectors OTOH (except type collectors who are more like the investors in this one approach) build sets based on their lack of availability for certain dates or die varieties. Nonetheless, a Morgan dollar was worth a dollar until basically the clad era.
<< <i>saintguru, you really surprised me.... And whether you care or not about my opinion, I am very disappointed, as I believe you are a better person then this displayed behavior. >>
LB...Let's clarify how things went down. This was a "soup-spoon fun" thread on my part. Hence, the asbestos suit in my first post.
There is NO designation of YN anywhere. IF I knew someone was a YN perhaps I would have not posted the pic...but both the kid AND his father have no profiles. I don't know from son, daughter, YN, ON, FBI, CIA, or PETA.....so when I get blasted and insulted as being "INDECENT" by someone in public instead of a PM, I reacted. That's it's the way I am, and that's how I do things. There are probably dozens of posters who have received PM's from me if I disagreed with something that I thought would be better served by being handled in a more discreet manner.
So now you have an edit. I just hope that our "disguised" YNs aren't influenced by this one. As for being indecent, I find that laughable. It may have offended a few, but it wasn't indecent.
Is that a reasonable response? >>
a reasonable response would be... I am sorry...
that simple....
Be Bop A Lula!! "Senorita HepKitty" "I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
<< <i>It is not bashing. Both are collectible but they don't mix and are entirely different entities as collectibles. Semantics aside, they really are not coins as instruments of commerce. >>
This is an area where I think people will simply have to agree to disagree. I'd prefer this issue simply not come up anymore, but it always seems to, especially when people resort to using REAL COINS in caps to get their antagonizing message across Is there a reason for the capitalization other than to antagonize people?
If a picture wasn't going very well I'd put a puppy dog in it, always a mongrel, you know, never one of the full bred puppies. And then I'd put a bandage on its foot... I liked it when I did it, but now I'm sick of it.
Norman Rockwell
Zoins -- How should a real coin collector respond to say a cable TV promoter who desperately wants consumers to believe that the ultramodern wares he is hawking in quantity are comparable with historically collected coins and offer some unprecedented potential in that comparison. Making the distinction between what is real and what is not is important. That doesn't make the newer collector-oriented stuff any less collectible, but it does make it very different. I use the capitalized REAL as emphasis in that way. If you get excited over a limited release reverse proof thingy and other amigos want to value it per demand like any other collectible, that is how it works. Worked with beanie babies, furbies, .... Now, if you demand the numismatic respect as an equivalent peer, that isn't getting much traction.
<< to me true coin collecting is when you pick a coin from your pocket change . all the others are investing whether you buy old or new coins from ebay, heritage, coin show, or us mint. Why, because most of us hope that the coins we bought will go up in value. >>
No way, Jose. I could care less if mine go up in value. Actually, I want all of them to GO DOWN in value, so I can buy more dupes. No lie. I AM A COLLECTOR - I buy in hopes of holding onto for.... Life.
<< <i>Zoins -- How should a real coin collector respond to say a cable TV promoter who desperately wants consumers to believe that the ultramodern wares he is hawking in quantity are comparable with historically collected coins and offer some unprecedented potential in that comparison. Making the distinction between what is real and what is not is important. That doesn't make the newer collector-oriented stuff any less collectible, but it does make it very different. I use the capitalized REAL as emphasis in that way. If you get excited over a limited release reverse proof thingy and other amigos want to value it per demand like any other collectible, that is how it works. Worked with beanie babies, furbies, .... Now, if you demand the numismatic respect as an equivalent peer, that isn't getting much traction. >>
I agree it's different and I don't really get excited about this either way (as I've said, my reaction is typically a *yawn*). I'm just trying to explain why what some people say isn't bashing can be construed as such. It's fine if you don't agree but don't be surprised if other people think something is bashing when you don't. Laura is fine with her bashing - bring out the flamethrowers
As Coin speculators push old at'ed processed crap higher and higher, there comes a point when no one wants it anymore - except at lower prices. No speculator in the world wants to speculate on a declining market. Enter the modern trash market - looks darned enticing to the former old trash speculators. Soon the Mint notices and starts putting out 10,000 set junk and 2,500 coin junk.
The market shifts.
The US Mint becomes the only dealer you will ever need.
Oh, of course you need eBay, also.
darn that modern trash
darn that US Mint
DARN eBay
darn this $200million inventory of old sinking trash
what am I gonna do now
........................................ PLEASE HELP
............................... spare modern crap appreciated
<< <i>Morgan dollars were, for the most part NCLT, but still represented $1 as stated on their design. I hardly doubt ASEs will represent anything nearly as numismatically interesting anytime in the future. They are indeed accessible for budget-minded collectors and are nice designs. I won't call them real coins because they are not. You won't buy bread or gas with an ASE dollar for stated dollar. They are produced by the US Mint and are technically legal tender and that is as close as they get. >>
Is it NOT true, you could buy bread or gas with an ASE, or a Morgan, or Peace dollar? If you were stupid enough, or rich enough to not care about spending say $11.00 +, for $1.00 value. (sorry I don't know what spot is for silver right now). It might be worth it, to see the look on a clerks face, now and then.
Or if you know the store owner, and he's a collector, and will give you full value for it. disreguarding face value.
Granted it's true ASEs are not made to be spent. Does that mean they can't be?
Just so you know, I didn't flip any anniversary sets I bought. I did give 2 as gifts. And hope they will bring enough to HELP my brother put his kids through collage years from now.
(Old man) Look I had a lovely supper, and all I said to my wife was, “That piece of halibut was good enough for Jehovah”.
(Priest) BLASPHEMY he said it again, did you hear him?
I hope every consumer of modern Mint products is very happy with their purchases. That's why they are there. They aren't for scholarly discourse of the die irregularities or odd and rare pairings. They are expressly for collecting.
A Morgan dollar is not the same as an ASE. For common ones, they are largely valued by their metal content and are similar in that way. However, until the clad era, a Morgan dollar was worth a dollar, not some release price nor $11 or whatever. An ASE that is technically a legal tender dollar has never been worth a dollar, period and end of comparison.
I doubt the ASE will ever be numismatically interesting, at least not in anywhere near the same degree as business strike coins. They are nonetheless collectible by those who like them. Speculators who think they are the big story of the future of numismatics and pile those eggs in their basket are playing a risky game. That isn't just my view but that of nearly (if not unanymously) every informed person who has been around the block a number of times in the hobby. Anyone who says or believes these are a lock guarantee at future huge gains is deceptive or deluded. Might pan out, but in contrast to what the experts believe. Warnings are not wholesale condemnations to collectors of the products, but honest warnings.
<< <i>I doubt the ASE will ever be numismatically interesting, at least not in anywhere near the same degree as business strike coins. They are nonetheless collectible by those who like them. Speculators who think they are the big story of the future of numismatics and pile those eggs in their basket are playing a risky game. That isn't just my view but that of nearly (if not unanymously) every informed person who has been around the block a number of times in the hobby. Anyone who says or believes these are a lock guarantee at future huge gains is deceptive or deluded. Might pan out, but in contrast to what the experts believe. Warnings are not wholesale condemnations to collectors of the products, but honest warnings. >>
Whether the ASE will ever be numismatically interesting is debatable. I think the reverse proof has a good chance of being numismatically interesting say 100 years from now, even if there are a slew of them.
I agree the market for expensive ultra-moderns is very risky and novices should avoid it unless they study and feel they understand the market dynamics. One only needs to look at the price collapse for PR70 ASEs to see the very real risks. I think it is admirable for you, Laura and others to warn people of the potential risks. As menioned numerous times with Laura, it's all in the delivery
Sometimes I wonder if what you so called collectors are doing is any different then the Home Shopping Network. They buy up large quantities of stuff and turn around and hype it to the public. If you truly want to own a set of this or that then fine, but at least if you are speculating admit it and quit hiding behind "I am a coin collector BS".
Is it collecting if I buy 3, sell 2, put one in a 2x2 and save it for 20 years, along with the others, one from each year? And then a couple times a year, I get out my coins and go, "cool".
Is that not collecting?
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
<< <i>They've been minting reverse proofs in Canada for years and haven't seen a large demand for them over time. >>
I think the differences in the markets for US coins vs. Candian coins is just as big, if not bigger, than the differences in the markets for US classics vs US moderns. World coins really can't touch US coins from what I've seen.
<< <i>They've been minting reverse proofs in Canada for years and haven't seen a large demand for them over time. >>
I think the differences in the markets for US coins vs. Candian coins is just as big, if not bigger, than the differences in the markets for US classics vs US moderns. World coins really can't touch US coins from what I've seen. >>
<< <i>They've been minting reverse proofs in Canada for years and haven't seen a large demand for them over time. >>
I think the differences in the markets for US coins vs. Candian coins is just as big, if not bigger, than the differences in the markets for US classics vs US moderns. World coins really can't touch US coins from what I've seen. >>
You need to get out more then. >>
I may need to look around more. It might also happen if CGS's 100-point scale takes off
<< <i>I wasn't comparing sales or markets, I was suggesting that the reverse proof design has done nothing for their market growth, i.e. demand. >>
My point is simply that everything being equal, something US may get more demand than something Canadian for the simple fact that it's US. Maybe it shouldn't be that way but that's what I've seen so far. Perhaps I'll do some more research on the Candian market.
<< <i>I think the differences in the markets for US coins vs. Candian coins is just as big, if not bigger, than the differences in the markets for US classics vs US moderns. World coins really can't touch US coins from what I've seen. >>
As of now. There's no assurance that will continue, especially if people get fed up with the U.S. market. I know I'm starting to look to the Darkside more than ever, especially for modern mint issues. And I've never been a Darksider before.
The only thing that irritates me about all these modern bullion threads is that they remind me that I didn't buy any and scarf up on the obscene profits.
<< <i>The only thing that irritates me about all these modern bullion threads is that they remind me that I didn't buy any and scarf up on the obscene profits. >>
How obscene are the profits? I'm too busy kicking myself for not flipping Vegas real estate some years back to be worked about about flipping modern mint issues.
<< <i>to me true coin collecting is when you pick a coin from your pocket change . all the others are investing whether you buy old or new coins from ebay, heritage, coin show, or us mint. Why, because most of us hope that the coins we bought will go up in value. >>
I would never admit that I agree with this but would point out that I find more truth here than in any bash of moderns ever.
<< <i>Vic since you've been posting I notice most of your posts are generated as put downs, do you have something positive to add to these boards? >>
Sure I do add positve posts but I notice so many threads are made to insult others' collecting habits and intrude on people's privacy so you now fit that description too with your observations about me. My 2 cents is no different than yours or most others here. Is it ok with you that I post like everyone else here?
Comments
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
You OWE notlogical & CoinHusker an apology
<< <i>I'm with CoinHusker--how many would want this kind of reply for our YN? >>
JMHO, GrandAm
<< <i> I don't wet myself with anger when someone critiques proof franklins....
WHOM IS COMMITING SUCH BLASPHEMEY!??????
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
Just a hypothetical....
Again depends on the collector and what they love to collect
https://photos.google.com/album/AF1QipOEEL19Q3eOmX_YDguy9KC1I5UsEJ6GeRs41NVx
https://photos.google.com/album/AF1QipMNX4uWLBtqMVGn-rRg59nYiDxdtd6mD1fSGNbd
<< <i>I happen to think this stuff is cool. I collect some of it. It's not about the fact that they are ultra moderns. It's not about the fact that they are bullion coins. It's not about disapproving of what others choose to collect. It's simply wondering if the huge premiums will stand the test of time, and questioning whether or not it's really "collecting" if the goal is to quickly flip for a few bucks, or to hold on, keep several sets sealed with the primary motive being future profit. Or, for that matter, wondering if it's good for the hobby for long-time collectors and purchasers of Mint products to be shut out of an offering because they weren't first in line to hoard them all. Note that there's nothing about enjoying the COINS. That's what puzzles me about all this.
I agree with this- I see nothing wrong with a little critical analysis of segments of the hobby. I don't wet myself with anger when someone critiques morgans or proof franklins....
I don't mind intelligent critiques but it seems like many posts are of the "ASEs/AGEs are not coins" type that get a yawn from me. Hasn't that been discussed to death?
You really should watch more television.
Mixing email with Merlot
LOL. They are only technically legal tender. Collectible? Without a doubt. In the same class as REAL COINS? No way.
This isn't peeing in anyone's coffee. Just calling a spade a spade. TPGs grade these because there is an apparent (or market manipulated) need to do so and it makes decent business sense. Really rare coins are not represented in high numbers and are not regraded with that high of a frequency. Companies, particularly public companies, need to grow their business and earnings. That is the bottom line. Working with these ultramodern pseudocoins is necessary and helps the rest of us pay reasonable grading fees. In that way, I do appreciate the Mint's insatiable need for expanding collector programs and the collector base that satisfies it. They keep our favorite TPG(s) in business with reasonable fees for all of us.
The collectors are in a separate hobby with different qualifications, a different market, and different potential.
NSDR - Life Member
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ANA - Pay As I Go Member
<< <i>but....but....but....TPGs slab bullion and modern commems under their COIN grading services......So they must be coins, right?
LOL. They are only technically legal tender. Collectible? Without a doubt. In the same class as REAL COINS? No way. >>
To me this is just bashing, plain and simple. ASEs/AGEs are real coins when using objective definitions for "real coins". Objectively speaking you have CLT and NCLT. The terms "real coins" and "pseudocoins" in this context is just used to antagonize, i.e. bash. As I said *yawn*
I don't disagree with your specific points, but I'd prefer people use objective terms, like NCLT, and subjective bashing terms.
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SSDC - Life Member
ANA - Pay As I Go Member
<< <i>
<< <i>but....but....but....TPGs slab bullion and modern commems under their COIN grading services......So they must be coins, right?
LOL. They are only technically legal tender. Collectible? Without a doubt. In the same class as REAL COINS? No way. >>
To me this is just bashing, plain and simple. ASEs are real coins when using objective definitions for "real coins". Objectively speaking you have CLT and NCLT. The term "real coins" in this context is just used to antagonize. As I said *yawn* >>
"Collectible coins"," collectible bullion coins"--what is the real difference, in the earliest sense all of our coins were based on bullion value--otherwise, why the arrows for lowered silver content in 1853 and 1873? I prefer the "classic" issues, but, since when have I been right about anything?--just ask my wife.
<< <i>Morgan dollars were, for the most part NCLT, but still represented $1 as stated on their design. I hardly doubt ASEs will represent anything nearly as numismatically interesting anytime in the future. They are indeed accessible for budget-minded collectors and are nice designs. I won't call them real coins because they are not. You won't buy bread or gas with an ASE dollar for stated dollar. They are produced by the US Mint and are technically legal tender and that is as close as they get. >>
As you say, they are technically legal tender. They are also technically coins which is why I consider statements saying they are not "real coins" or that they are "pseudocoins" to be bashing, because those terms are technically incorrect when used in that manner. I can only assume people like to use incorrect terms to antagonize others.
As for Morgans, my impression is that there is intense collector interest in them exactly because many of them never circulated. However, as you say, they were exchanged at their face value and some of them did circulate. I agree with many of your points however I would have prefered your earlier statement as:
<< <i>They are only technically legal tender. Collectible? Without a doubt. In the same class as circulating coins? No way. >>
<< <i>saintguru, you really surprised me.... And whether you care or not about my opinion, I am very disappointed, as I believe you are a better person then this displayed behavior. >>
LB...Let's clarify how things went down. This was a "soup-spoon fun" thread on my part. Hence, the asbestos suit in my first post.
There is NO designation of YN anywhere. IF I knew someone was a YN perhaps I would have not posted the pic...but both the kid AND his father have no profiles. I don't know from son, daughter, YN, ON, FBI, CIA, or PETA.....so when I get blasted and insulted as being "INDECENT" by someone in public instead of a PM, I reacted. That's it's the way I am, and that's how I do things. There are probably dozens of posters who have received PM's from me if I disagreed with something that I thought would be better served by being handled in a more discreet manner.
So now you have an edit. I just hope that our "disguised" YNs aren't influenced by this one. As for being indecent, I find that laughable. It may have offended a few, but it wasn't indecent.
Is that a reasonable response?
<< <i>Jay are ya happy now you've manage to corrupt an entire new generation of collectors. (couldn't find the tongue in cheek emoticon) >>
That goes for us older ones too.......!!!
<< <i>
<< <i>Morgan dollars were, for the most part NCLT, but still represented $1 as stated on their design. I hardly doubt ASEs will represent anything nearly as numismatically interesting anytime in the future. They are indeed accessible for budget-minded collectors and are nice designs. I won't call them real coins because they are not. You won't buy bread or gas with an ASE dollar for stated dollar. They are produced by the US Mint and are technically legal tender and that is as close as they get. >>
As you say, they are technically legal tender. They are also technically coins which is why I consider statements saying they are not "real coins" or that they are "pseudocoins" to be bashing, because those terms are technically incorrect when used in that manner. I can only assume people like to use incorrect terms to antagonize others.
As for Morgans, my impression is that there is intense collector interest in them exactly because many of them never circulated. However, as you say, they were exchanged at their face value and some of them did circulate. I agree with many of your points however I would have prefered your earlier statement as:
<< <i>They are only technically legal tender. Collectible? Without a doubt. In the same class as circulating coins? No way. >>
>>
It is not bashing. Both are collectible but they don't mix and are entirely different entities as collectibles. Semantics aside, they really are not coins as instruments of commerce. They are like coins, pseudocoins as I put it, but not really functional coins. Perhaps in the collapse of the US dollar, the roles could be reversed however.
Morgans are more available, and in higher grades specifically, because they largely did not circulate. They are not colelcted primarily for that reason though. Investors in the last bull market liked them because of their ubiquitous availability in MS65. Collectors OTOH (except type collectors who are more like the investors in this one approach) build sets based on their lack of availability for certain dates or die varieties. Nonetheless, a Morgan dollar was worth a dollar until basically the clad era.
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<< <i>So now you have an edit. I just hope that our "disguised" YNs aren't influenced by this one. >>
Just in case, I fixed it for ya.
<< <i>
<< <i>saintguru, you really surprised me.... And whether you care or not about my opinion, I am very disappointed, as I believe you are a better person then this displayed behavior. >>
LB...Let's clarify how things went down. This was a "soup-spoon fun" thread on my part. Hence, the asbestos suit in my first post.
There is NO designation of YN anywhere. IF I knew someone was a YN perhaps I would have not posted the pic...but both the kid AND his father have no profiles. I don't know from son, daughter, YN, ON, FBI, CIA, or PETA.....so when I get blasted and insulted as being "INDECENT" by someone in public instead of a PM, I reacted. That's it's the way I am, and that's how I do things. There are probably dozens of posters who have received PM's from me if I disagreed with something that I thought would be better served by being handled in a more discreet manner.
So now you have an edit. I just hope that our "disguised" YNs aren't influenced by this one. As for being indecent, I find that laughable. It may have offended a few, but it wasn't indecent.
Is that a reasonable response? >>
a reasonable response would be... I am sorry...
that simple....
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
<< <i>It is not bashing. Both are collectible but they don't mix and are entirely different entities as collectibles. Semantics aside, they really are not coins as instruments of commerce. >>
This is an area where I think people will simply have to agree to disagree. I'd prefer this issue simply not come up anymore, but it always seems to, especially when people resort to using REAL COINS in caps to get their antagonizing message across
<< <i>a reasonable response would be... I am sorry...
that simple.... >>
But I'm NOT sorry. I gave a mile...but I'm not selling my soul. There are ways to do things and ways not to. End of subject.
"Space CAN be a very lonely place."
<< <i>
<< <i>a reasonable response would be... I am sorry...
that simple.... >>
But I'm NOT sorry. I gave a mile...but I'm not selling my soul. There are ways to do things and ways not to. End of subject.
"Space CAN be a very lonely place."
well... to illogical and coinhusker... I am sorry this has happened....
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
History, Discovery, and Learning channels...
We all are capable of indiscretions...
If a picture wasn't going very well I'd put a puppy dog in it, always a mongrel, you know, never one of the full bred puppies. And then I'd put a bandage on its foot... I liked it when I did it, but now I'm sick of it.
Norman Rockwell
NSDR - Life Member
SSDC - Life Member
ANA - Pay As I Go Member
Camelot
you have to be wearing snow shoes.
Camelot
No way, Jose. I could care less if mine go up in value. Actually, I want all of them to GO DOWN in value, so I can buy more dupes. No lie. I AM A COLLECTOR - I buy in hopes of holding onto for.... Life.
<< <i>Zoins -- How should a real coin collector respond to say a cable TV promoter who desperately wants consumers to believe that the ultramodern wares he is hawking in quantity are comparable with historically collected coins and offer some unprecedented potential in that comparison. Making the distinction between what is real and what is not is important. That doesn't make the newer collector-oriented stuff any less collectible, but it does make it very different. I use the capitalized REAL as emphasis in that way. If you get excited over a limited release reverse proof thingy and other amigos want to value it per demand like any other collectible, that is how it works. Worked with beanie babies, furbies, .... Now, if you demand the numismatic respect as an equivalent peer, that isn't getting much traction. >>
I agree it's different and I don't really get excited about this either way (as I've said, my reaction is typically a *yawn*). I'm just trying to explain why what some people say isn't bashing can be construed as such. It's fine if you don't agree but don't be surprised if other people think something is bashing when you don't. Laura is fine with her bashing - bring out the flamethrowers
The market shifts.
The US Mint becomes the only dealer you will ever need.
Oh, of course you need eBay, also.
darn that modern trash
darn that US Mint
DARN eBay
darn this $200million inventory of old sinking trash
what am I gonna do now
........................................ PLEASE HELP
............................... spare modern crap appreciated
<< <i>
<< <i>Morgan dollars were, for the most part NCLT, but still represented $1 as stated on their design. I hardly doubt ASEs will represent anything nearly as numismatically interesting anytime in the future. They are indeed accessible for budget-minded collectors and are nice designs. I won't call them real coins because they are not. You won't buy bread or gas with an ASE dollar for stated dollar. They are produced by the US Mint and are technically legal tender and that is as close as they get. >>
Is it NOT true, you could buy bread or gas with an ASE, or a Morgan, or Peace dollar? If you were stupid enough, or rich enough to not care about spending say $11.00 +, for $1.00 value. (sorry I don't know what spot is for silver right now). It might be worth it, to see the look on a clerks face, now and then.
Or if you know the store owner, and he's a collector, and will give you full value for it. disreguarding face value.
Granted it's true ASEs are not made to be spent. Does that mean they can't be?
Just so you know, I didn't flip any anniversary sets I bought. I did give 2 as gifts. And hope they will bring enough to HELP my brother put his kids through collage years from now.
(Priest) BLASPHEMY he said it again, did you hear him?
A Morgan dollar is not the same as an ASE. For common ones, they are largely valued by their metal content and are similar in that way. However, until the clad era, a Morgan dollar was worth a dollar, not some release price nor $11 or whatever. An ASE that is technically a legal tender dollar has never been worth a dollar, period and end of comparison.
I doubt the ASE will ever be numismatically interesting, at least not in anywhere near the same degree as business strike coins. They are nonetheless collectible by those who like them. Speculators who think they are the big story of the future of numismatics and pile those eggs in their basket are playing a risky game. That isn't just my view but that of nearly (if not unanymously) every informed person who has been around the block a number of times in the hobby. Anyone who says or believes these are a lock guarantee at future huge gains is deceptive or deluded. Might pan out, but in contrast to what the experts believe. Warnings are not wholesale condemnations to collectors of the products, but honest warnings.
NSDR - Life Member
SSDC - Life Member
ANA - Pay As I Go Member
<< <i>I doubt the ASE will ever be numismatically interesting, at least not in anywhere near the same degree as business strike coins. They are nonetheless collectible by those who like them. Speculators who think they are the big story of the future of numismatics and pile those eggs in their basket are playing a risky game. That isn't just my view but that of nearly (if not unanymously) every informed person who has been around the block a number of times in the hobby. Anyone who says or believes these are a lock guarantee at future huge gains is deceptive or deluded. Might pan out, but in contrast to what the experts believe. Warnings are not wholesale condemnations to collectors of the products, but honest warnings. >>
Whether the ASE will ever be numismatically interesting is debatable. I think the reverse proof has a good chance of being numismatically interesting say 100 years from now, even if there are a slew of them.
I agree the market for expensive ultra-moderns is very risky and novices should avoid it unless they study and feel they understand the market dynamics. One only needs to look at the price collapse for PR70 ASEs to see the very real risks. I think it is admirable for you, Laura and others to warn people of the potential risks. As menioned numerous times with Laura, it's all in the delivery
Is it collecting if I buy 3, sell 2, put one in a 2x2 and save it for 20 years, along with the others, one from each year? And then a couple times a year, I get out my coins and go, "cool".
Is that not collecting?
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>They've been minting reverse proofs in Canada for years and haven't seen a large demand for them over time. >>
I think the differences in the markets for US coins vs. Candian coins is just as big, if not bigger, than the differences in the markets for US classics vs US moderns. World coins really can't touch US coins from what I've seen.
<< <i>World coins really can't touch US coins from what I've seen. >>
They sure can as far as design goes.
<< <i>
<< <i>World coins really can't touch US coins from what I've seen. >>
They sure can as far as design goes. >>
I agree there are some nice world designs but my original statement was primarily regarding collector interest and price appreciation.
<< <i>
<< <i>They've been minting reverse proofs in Canada for years and haven't seen a large demand for them over time. >>
I think the differences in the markets for US coins vs. Candian coins is just as big, if not bigger, than the differences in the markets for US classics vs US moderns. World coins really can't touch US coins from what I've seen. >>
You need to get out more then.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>They've been minting reverse proofs in Canada for years and haven't seen a large demand for them over time. >>
I think the differences in the markets for US coins vs. Candian coins is just as big, if not bigger, than the differences in the markets for US classics vs US moderns. World coins really can't touch US coins from what I've seen. >>
You need to get out more then.
I may need to look around more. It might also happen if CGS's 100-point scale takes off
<< <i>I wasn't comparing sales or markets, I was suggesting that the reverse proof design has done nothing for their market growth, i.e. demand. >>
My point is simply that everything being equal, something US may get more demand than something Canadian for the simple fact that it's US. Maybe it shouldn't be that way but that's what I've seen so far. Perhaps I'll do some more research on the Candian market.
<< <i>I think the differences in the markets for US coins vs. Candian coins is just as big, if not bigger, than the differences in the markets for US classics vs US moderns. World coins really can't touch US coins from what I've seen. >>
As of now. There's no assurance that will continue, especially if people get fed up with the U.S. market. I know I'm starting to look to the Darkside more than ever, especially for modern mint issues. And I've never been a Darksider before.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>The only thing that irritates me about all these modern bullion threads is that they remind me that I didn't buy any and scarf up on the obscene profits. >>
How obscene are the profits? I'm too busy kicking myself for not flipping Vegas real estate some years back to be worked about about flipping modern mint issues.
<< <i>to me true coin collecting is when you pick a coin from your pocket change . all the others are investing whether you buy old or new coins from ebay, heritage, coin show, or us mint. Why, because most of us hope that the coins we bought will go up in value. >>
I would never admit that I agree with this but would point out that I find more truth here than in any bash of moderns ever.
<< <i>Vic since you've been posting I notice most of your posts are generated as put downs, do you have something positive to add to these boards? >>
Sure I do add positve posts but I notice so many threads are made to insult others' collecting habits and intrude on people's privacy so you now fit that description too with your observations about me. My 2 cents is no different than yours or most others here. Is it ok with you that I post like everyone else here?