I like Pat, he carries a lot of neat inventory. I've also found him to be extremely honest and forthright with everything I've purchased from him (and I've purchased some weird stuff, from counterfeits to obscenely AT'd coins in PCGS plastic as a novelty). There's a market for 'novelty' coins, and Pat definitely does a good job at dealing in it and I'm sure would be the first to tell you that himself.
As far as I'm concerned, the old "Buy the coin, not the slab" should be expanded to include "Buy the coin, not the color". The bottom line seems to be: You buy toned, you get boned. This kind of thing will stop when people decide they're not going to pay extra for pretty colors.
If you haven't noticed, I'm single and miserable and I've got four albums of bitching about it that I would offer as proof.
<< <i>Perhaps this is the beginning of the end of the toning premiums? >>
Here are a couple of threads from past discussions of this question: From '02 From '03 Ps. Posts run from last entered to first entered. In other words, go to the end of the thread for the opening post. And some of the old links don't work anymore.
MOC coin Slang term for artifically toned coin, which is encapsulated by a grading service. Usually caused by injecting chemicals into the plastic of the holder, causing the surface of the coin inside to tone or color. Other methods have been used over the years, including expertly removing coin from holder, toning it, then resealing it back into the tampered holder.
Advanced collector of BREWERIANA. Early beer advertising (beer cans, tap knobs, foam scrapers, trays, tin signs, lithos, paper, etc)....My first love...U.S. COINS!
<< <i>Man, ya' just can't get this stuff across the street. >>
That's why a lot of our members went over there (e.g. Amanda).
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
TPG's will certify whatever ther's a high demand for -- including toners. I don't believe we'll see a crackdown on that unless toners no longer add such a premium to the coin's value. The greater the degree of toning, the more skepticism should be applied to the coin. Buying a coin that looks like a Timothy Leary hallucination, and paying a premium for that trait, doesn't make any sense.
If you haven't noticed, I'm single and miserable and I've got four albums of bitching about it that I would offer as proof.
<<< The greater the degree of toning, the more skepticism should be applied to the coin. Buying a coin that looks like a Timothy Leary hallucination, and paying a premium for that trait, doesn't make any sense >>>
<< <i><<< The greater the degree of toning, the more skepticism should be applied to the coin. Buying a coin that looks like a Timothy Leary hallucination, and paying a premium for that trait, doesn't make any sense >>>
Gee, thanks for the handy tip >>
Well, judging from some of the auctions I've seen, some people actually need to be told this. (Amazing, I know, but there you have it.)
If you haven't noticed, I'm single and miserable and I've got four albums of bitching about it that I would offer as proof.
<< <i>I believe that you will see a MAJOR crackdown on AT in 2007....
Pure speculation, but major grading companies may decide it is too risky to certify toners. Put the brakes on completely! >>
Yea, like that is going to happen!! >>
Maybe I'm misreading some sarcasm here, but try submitting some more Marty Hoard nickels before you say that.
Sean Reynolds
Incomplete planchets wanted, especially Lincoln Cents & type coins.
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
<< <i> The orange on the obverse is a color I have never seen on AT coin. >>
If you look at the "image progression" that smoeone kindly posted somewhere in the first couple pages of this thread, the orange is not quite as otherworldly in the first few images... the final image is likely a result of juicing the colors with a slider button.
"Wars are really ugly! They're dirty and they're cold. I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole." Mary
Pat's rather weak attempt to put a positive spin on this by trying to disguise the whole thing as some sort of charity auction has cast an largely undeserved stank on 'charity auctions' in general.
"Wars are really ugly! They're dirty and they're cold. I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole." Mary
I know this is going to be laughed at, ridiculed, and shot down, but--- in my mind there is a (small) possibility that this is NT. I have seen similarly toned coins sealed in proof sets. However, I think that there is a good probability that if the coin was submitted raw today it would be bodybagged for either QT or Environmental damage.
However, Pat's actions would indicate that he knows something is definitely amiss here. Perhaps he would have fared better if he had simply stuck to his guns and said he beleives the coin is NT?!?
Just thinking out loud.
"Wars are really ugly! They're dirty and they're cold. I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole." Mary
<< <i>I like Pat, he carries a lot of neat inventory. I've also found him to be extremely honest and forthright with everything I've purchased from him (and I've purchased some weird stuff, from counterfeits to obscenely AT'd coins in PCGS plastic as a novelty). There's a market for 'novelty' coins, and Pat definitely does a good job at dealing in it and I'm sure would be the first to tell you that himself. >>
Until the "MOC Franklin" auction, this was my view of Braddick's auctions as well. From the past auctions of his that I can recall, he would usually disclose if a coin was AT, or even if he suspected a coin was AT. This one is in somewhat a gray area, as it is not an MOC coin per se, but appears comparable to an "MOC coin".
Many will also recall that he linked the NGC MS66* "Peacegate" coin to the "gototoningcoins" $55 AT Peace Dollar auction.
So, overall, it appears to me that the roasting of Braddick may be a tad harsh, with the caveat that I do not closely follow every auction of his, so it it based on a past sampling of the auctions of his that I can recall.
Edit: Caveat 2: the slamming of the "Marty Hoard" coins in the Nickel auction did surprise me, and IMO was uncalled for. Those coins are no more "AT" than that auction coin, or coins from the famed "Appilachain Hoard".
<< <i>UPDATE: I posted that on his his "sacred trust" word but i should have known not to trust someone who makes false accusations up. THe auction answer smearing my good name is still up there. >>
He can't change the auction. Once you answer a question, it is there to stay until the end. He can only ADD to the auction description at this point. The only other option would be to cancel all bids, end the auction and then mail the coin to PCGS. The money is going to charity anyway.......right? So it would not cost anything extra to take the coin off of the market.
<< <i>The coin listed certainly looks suspect. To the best of my knowledge I can not take credit for that coin. However
I offered Pat a substantial profit to sell it to me off EBAY. He recommended I bid for it against his other bidders. I will
not be a bidder on that coin. Which schill bidder will I have to beat? I have paid substantial prices to
buy these back and offered Pat a 250% profit and he refused. >>
>>
So? You quoted yourself? What are you looking for? A pat on the back because you think you've attempted to do something you think deserves some kind of recognition?
You screwed the pooch, major league style. Credibility? ......... in the flusher.
Now, how about you stick to your word and just go away.
There is no way this thread will hit 200..........unless you and I keep arguing over whether it will hit 200 or not. >>
Which is a distinct possibility >>
I refuse to argue with you about this thread hitting 200! I demand that you stop posting to this thread! I just received a pm from PCGS giving me permission to be the last poster to this thread so that it will end right here and now.
There is no way this thread will hit 200..........unless you and I keep arguing over whether it will hit 200 or not. >>
Which is a distinct possibility >>
I refuse to argue with you about this thread hitting 200! I demand that you stop posting to this thread! I just received a pm from PCGS giving me permission to be the last poster to this thread so that it will end right here and now. >>
<< <i>Edit: Caveat 2: the slamming of the "Marty Hoard" coins in the Nickel auction did surprise me, and IMO was uncalled for. Those coins are no more "AT" than that auction coin, or coins from the famed "Appilachain Hoard". >>
Comments
Self Indulgence | Holey Coins | Flickr Photostream
<< <i>The coin listed certainly looks suspect. >>
Well, you would know...
-- Adam Duritz, of Counting Crows
My Ebay Auctions
Maybe this has been coming for a while now?
If what has allegedly been done to this coin, ATing WITHIN a TPG holder, then nothing is sacred.
Collector of Early 20th Century U.S. Coinage.
ANA Member R-3147111
this is old news.
there will always be people paying premiums for "pretty coins".
the collectors decide.
the doctors provide.
Pure speculation, but major grading companies may decide it is too risky to certify toners. Put the brakes on completely!
Collector of Early 20th Century U.S. Coinage.
ANA Member R-3147111
<< <i>Perhaps this is the beginning of the end of the toning premiums? >>
Here are a couple of threads from past discussions of this question:
From '02
From '03
Ps. Posts run from last entered to first entered. In other words, go to the end of the thread for the opening post. And some of the old links don't work anymore.
<< <i>You buy toned, you get boned. >>
This thread has been pretty outstanding....
MOC coin
Slang term for artifically toned coin, which is encapsulated by a grading service. Usually caused by injecting chemicals into the plastic of the holder, causing the surface of the coin inside to tone or color. Other methods have been used over the years, including expertly removing coin from holder, toning it, then resealing it back into the tampered holder.
<< <i>Man, ya' just can't get this stuff across the street. >>
That's why a lot of our members went over there (e.g. Amanda).
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>I believe that you will see a MAJOR crackdown on AT in 2007....
Pure speculation, but major grading companies may decide it is too risky to certify toners. Put the brakes on completely! >>
Yea, like that is going to happen!!
-- Adam Duritz, of Counting Crows
My Ebay Auctions
Gee, thanks for the handy tip
<< <i><<< The greater the degree of toning, the more skepticism should be applied to the coin. Buying a coin that looks like a Timothy Leary hallucination, and paying a premium for that trait, doesn't make any sense >>>
Gee, thanks for the handy tip
Well, judging from some of the auctions I've seen, some people actually need to be told this.
-- Adam Duritz, of Counting Crows
My Ebay Auctions
<< <i>
<< <i>I believe that you will see a MAJOR crackdown on AT in 2007....
Pure speculation, but major grading companies may decide it is too risky to certify toners. Put the brakes on completely! >>
Yea, like that is going to happen!! >>
Maybe I'm misreading some sarcasm here, but try submitting some more Marty Hoard nickels before you say that.
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
<< <i> The orange on the obverse is a color I have never seen on AT coin. >>
If you look at the "image progression" that smoeone kindly posted somewhere in the first couple pages of this thread, the orange is not quite as otherworldly in the first few images... the final image is likely a result of juicing the colors with a slider button.
and they're cold.
I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole."
Mary
Best Franklin Website
Pat's rather weak attempt to put a positive spin on this by trying to disguise the whole thing as some sort of charity auction has cast an largely undeserved stank on 'charity auctions' in general.
and they're cold.
I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole."
Mary
Best Franklin Website
<< <i>Which schill bidder will I have to beat? >>
Opps, this just put you out of the NGC "Circle of Trust" also.
Ken
I know this is going to be laughed at, ridiculed, and shot down, but--- in my mind there is a (small) possibility that this is NT. I have seen similarly toned coins sealed in proof sets. However, I think that there is a good probability that if the coin was submitted raw today it would be bodybagged for either QT or Environmental damage.
However, Pat's actions would indicate that he knows something is definitely amiss here. Perhaps he would have fared better if he had simply stuck to his guns and said he beleives the coin is NT?!?
Just thinking out loud.
and they're cold.
I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole."
Mary
Best Franklin Website
<< <i>However, Pat's actions would indicate that he knows something is definitely amiss here. >>
Specifically stating in the auction that the coin is in fact AT leads me to think that the coin might be AT
<< <i>I like Pat, he carries a lot of neat inventory. I've also found him to be extremely honest and forthright with everything I've purchased from him (and I've purchased some weird stuff, from counterfeits to obscenely AT'd coins in PCGS plastic as a novelty). There's a market for 'novelty' coins, and Pat definitely does a good job at dealing in it and I'm sure would be the first to tell you that himself. >>
Until the "MOC Franklin" auction, this was my view of Braddick's auctions as well. From the past auctions of his that I can recall, he would usually disclose if a coin was AT, or even if he suspected a coin was AT. This one is in somewhat a gray area, as it is not an MOC coin per se, but appears comparable to an "MOC coin".
Many will also recall that he linked the NGC MS66* "Peacegate" coin to the "gototoningcoins" $55 AT Peace Dollar auction.
So, overall, it appears to me that the roasting of Braddick may be a tad harsh, with the caveat that I do not closely follow every auction of his, so it it based on a past sampling of the auctions of his that I can recall.
Edit: Caveat 2: the slamming of the "Marty Hoard" coins in the Nickel auction did surprise me, and IMO was uncalled for. Those coins are no more "AT" than that auction coin, or coins from the famed "Appilachain Hoard".
<< <i>UPDATE: I posted that on his his "sacred trust" word but i should have known not to trust someone who makes false accusations up. THe auction answer smearing my good name is still up there. >>
He can't change the auction. Once you answer a question, it is there to stay until the end. He can only ADD to the auction description at this point. The only other option would be to cancel all bids, end the auction and then mail the coin to PCGS. The money is going to charity anyway.......right? So it would not cost anything extra to take the coin off of the market.
Okay.....the auction was ended early. It's over. Move along folks. Nothing to see here. Keep moving along.......
....and it is a good thing that this soap opera is over. This thread almost hit 200!
<< <i>This thread almost hit 200! >>
It still will.
Well not really.
Thanks for the cameo
<< <i>
<< <i>This thread almost hit 200! >>
It still will. >>
There is no way this thread will hit 200..........unless you and I keep arguing over whether it will hit 200 or not.
<< <i>
<< <i>The coin listed certainly looks suspect. To the best of my knowledge I can not take credit for that coin. However
I offered Pat a substantial profit to sell it to me off EBAY. He recommended I bid for it against his other bidders. I will
not be a bidder on that coin. Which schill bidder will I have to beat? I have paid substantial prices to
buy these back and offered Pat a 250% profit and he refused. >>
>>
So? You quoted yourself? What are you looking for? A pat on the back because you think you've attempted to do something
you think deserves some kind of recognition?
You screwed the pooch, major league style. Credibility? ......... in the flusher.
Now, how about you stick to your word and just go away.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>This thread almost hit 200! >>
It still will. >>
There is no way this thread will hit 200..........unless you and I keep arguing over whether it will hit 200 or not.
Which is a distinct possibility
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>This thread almost hit 200! >>
It still will. >>
There is no way this thread will hit 200..........unless you and I keep arguing over whether it will hit 200 or not.
Which is a distinct possibility
I refuse to argue with you about this thread hitting 200! I demand that you stop posting to this thread! I just received a pm from PCGS giving me permission to be the last poster to this thread so that it will end right here and now.
<< <i> I just received a pm from PCGS giving me permission to be the last poster to this thread so that it will end right here and now. >>
Bite me!!!
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>This thread almost hit 200! >>
It still will. >>
There is no way this thread will hit 200..........unless you and I keep arguing over whether it will hit 200 or not.
Which is a distinct possibility
I refuse to argue with you about this thread hitting 200! I demand that you stop posting to this thread! I just received a pm from PCGS giving me permission to be the last poster to this thread so that it will end right here and now. >>
Ok. Fair enough. You win.
<< <i>Edit: Caveat 2: the slamming of the "Marty Hoard" coins in the Nickel auction did surprise me, and IMO was uncalled for. Those coins are no more "AT" than that auction coin, or coins from the famed "Appilachain Hoard". >>
-
<< <i>Okay.....the auction was ended early. It's over. Move along folks. Nothing to see here. Keep moving along.......
....and it is a good thing that this soap opera is over. This thread almost hit 200! >>
Hold on it has been listed again 99c no reserve
On eBay again
Russ, NCNE
Russ, NCNE
Interesting claim.