Options
TPG companies
John91C
Posts: 304 ✭✭✭
So is PCGS considered the finer of the top two (NGC)? Is PCGS tougher at grading? PCGS worth more? Just wondering why one would choose PCGS vs. NGC.
John
John
0
Comments
Camelot
<< <i>So is PCGS considered the finer of the top two (NGC)? Is PCGS tougher at grading? PCGS worth more? Just wondering why one would choose PCGS vs. NGC.
John[/q
I dare you to go over to the NGC coin forum and ask the same question. Let us know what responses you get.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I posted it on NGC...let's see what they say.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
step cautiously!
No doubt, a PCGS 70 will yield more money than a NGC 70.
NSDR - Life Member
SSDC - Life Member
ANA - Pay As I Go Member
Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else. - Bastiat
<< <i>I have dealt primarily with PCGS and agree they are tops. However, I do not agree with their policy of refusing to grade a business strike silver eagle higher than MS69 because of potential milk spots in the future. It is my opinion that the coin should be graded for what it is at the time of grading without any concern for what might happen to the coin in the future. It bothers me that the coin is being graded beyond what is being held in the grader's hand. >>
If they are backing that grade up with a guarantee, then their policy makes complete sense. Sure, they could drop the guarantee like NGC does for the copper coins they slab.
NSDR - Life Member
SSDC - Life Member
ANA - Pay As I Go Member
<< <i>Just wondering why one would choose PCGS vs. NGC. >>
I like the PCGS holders better, particularly when it comes to shooting images.
Russ, NCNE
Wouldn't that make PCGS a more superior company because they hold their grades at a higher value knowing that a coin will have milk spots...say for instance they grade a Unc. silver MS-70 and 5 years down the line it gets milk spots...then people would be saying "wow PCGS doesn't know how to grade, look at that milk spot...what was PCGS thinking grading it a MS-70" I think it shows integrity that the company cares about it's reputation for the future rather than the here and now.
John
<< <i>then people would be saying "wow PCGS doesn't know how to grade, look at that milk spot...what was PCGS thinking grading it a MS-70" >>
No, people would be saying "I see this coin turned after it was graded, as many do".
<< <i>I think it shows integrity that the company cares about it's reputation for the future rather than the here and now. >>
No, it shows that PCGS is not willing to foot the bill for future liability under the grade guarantee, and I think they are smart to not take the risk.
Russ, NCNE
John
Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else. - Bastiat
John
<< <i>Perry,
I posted it on NGC...let's see what they say.
That's quite the dare. Did you pull one over on them?
John
I honestly do want to know the difference in the two companies and why one would choose PCGS over NGC and vice versa...
<< <i>So PCGS never puts a MS-70 on silver unc buillon? >>
Seems to only be the American Silver Eagle, whether bullion from a third party dealer or bought directly from the mint. Check the graded ASE sets being sold on ebay, no MS70's graded by PCGS. Unfortunately (or fortunately for us PCGS diehards) this caused many of the ASE anniversary sets to go to other TPG's such as NGC in hopes for the MS70 and ultimately an "all 70" ASE set. The good news is that this resulted in fewer PCGS sets being graded, thus making them even more sought after in the future. I have no doubt that a PCGS 69-70-70 (highest possible PCGS ASE set grade) will and may already be more prized (Valued) by the knowledgeable buyer. This in itself answers the questions posed in the original thread.
Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else. - Bastiat
Consider this for a moment.
On eBay, a total of 253 NGC graded AGE sets have been sold so far. Of those, 96% received the same grade for all three coins. 161 received all 70s, 81 received all 69s. Only 11 sets received mixed grades--around 4%
The total of PCGS graded AGE sets on the other hand are much more scarce with only 89 sold so far by my count. Of those 69% received the same grade across the board with only 18 graded all 70s (20%), and 43 receiving all 69s. Nearly 31% of PCGS graded AGE sets sold on eBay had mixed grades.
There are two conclusions I draw from that. First that PCGS graded each individual coin; whereas NGC appears to have used some other methodology where one coin or more coins made the whole 3 coin set equate to that grade in all but a few cases. So if I'm buying a set or individual coin, I have to really examine the coin carefully--how do I know a 70 isn't a 69 or even 68? Second, that a high percentage of people who had their coins graded by PCGS aren't selling them...at least as of yet.
All of this is reflected in the comparative pricing. So you have NGC UCAM70s on average going for $1,580 and you have PCGS DCAM70s selling for $10,321.
NGC graded 70 sets on average have sold for $6,920 though PCGS graded 70 sets on average have sold for $14,880 and actually have moved up in price since the earliest sales.
What's a bit strange is you can frequently find NGC graded 69s sets selling beneath raw pricing over the past couple months while PCGS 69s generally sell at premiums. Exactly a third of all NGC graded 69 sets have sold in a range between $3,550 and $4,199.
So the perceptions of market participants is that they place a premium value on PCGS's grading....
...unless everyone just likes their clear slabs so much more.
Perceptually, as a subjective consumer, PCGS carries more weight and more integrity to me........right now.
The observation of the NGC 69's selling under raw need only the 2006 AGE Set as an instance.
Miles
(1) Because PCGS coins sell for more money usually ( but clearly not always ) people try to cross NGC coins to PCGS. It follows that many coins in NGC holders will not cross, even if cracked. So an NGC MS65 might only be MS64 or lower if PCGS graded it.
(2) Some coins that PCGS grades say MS64 will make MS65 at NGC. So dealers may try for a PCGS regrade a couple of times if they believe a coin is MS65 and then try NGC hoping for a better grade.
(3) The PCGS registry sets play a part in this since the coins have to be PCGS graded. If someone is needs a coin for their set they will "pay up" if it is in a PCGS holder, but if it is an NGC holder they have to worry about how PCGS will grade it.
(4) I've had a fair amount of experience trying to cross NGC coins to PCGS and generally I would say "forget it" since most have been tried. I'm talking about relatively expensive coins.
(5) PCGS is grading very tough right now.
<< <i>(4) I've had a fair amount of experience trying to cross NGC coins to PCGS and generally I would say "forget it" since most have been tried. I'm talking about relatively expensive coins. >>
Do you send them in raw or leave them in the slab? It does make a difference.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
<< <i>(4) I've had a fair amount of experience trying to cross NGC coins to PCGS and generally I would say "forget it" since most have been tried. I'm talking about relatively expensive coins. >>
Do you send them in raw or leave them in the slab? It does make a difference. >>
Sad but true....
<< <i>
<< <i>(4) I've had a fair amount of experience trying to cross NGC coins to PCGS and generally I would say "forget it" since most have been tried. I'm talking about relatively expensive coins. >>
Do you send them in raw or leave them in the slab? It does make a difference. >>
A coin in an NGC holder is much less likely to cross to PCGS IMO. So raw is the best bet unless you are afraid of a BB or a lower grade which is likely.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Say you see a really flashy NGC 5. I've been offered a nice one 10-15% back of bid, but as I didn't want to play the crossover game, I passed on it. If you can buy such a coin for this price and actually cross the coin, you've made a minimum of 20% plus. It's value can easily rise by 50% or more.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
NSDR - Life Member
SSDC - Life Member
ANA - Pay As I Go Member