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What is your definition of MODERN?

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    MadMartyMadMarty Posts: 16,697 ✭✭✭
    1950 and above
    It is not exactly cheating, I prefer to consider it creative problem solving!!!

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    I don't really like the dead presidents divider. For one thing, the Lincoln cent was introduced in 1909, but all the other coinage still had dead presidents for over 20 years. My gut instinct would be to say that the modern era started on the day the last non-obsolete coin was introduced. So that would be 1964, when the Franklin was replaced by the Kennedy. The other way you could do it would be when the first modern design was introduced, which would be 1959, with the Lincoln Memorial cent.
    If you haven't noticed, I'm single and miserable and I've got four albums of bitching about it that I would offer as proof.

    -- Adam Duritz, of Counting Crows


    My Ebay Auctions
    image
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    WinPitcherWinPitcher Posts: 27,726 ✭✭✭
    To me modern US coinage is anything produced after 1964.

    So 1965 and above is modern IMO.

    Steve

    Good for you.
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    any coin struck for commerce with a dead president on it.
    "Everyday above ground is a good day"

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    TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 45,086 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Modern Coin: 2000 and past.
    Classic Coin: any half cent, two cent, three cent, half dime.
    1909 for cents
    1938 for nickels
    1945 for dimes
    1930 for quarters
    1947 for halves
    1935 for silver dollars
    1889 for gold dollars
    1929 for $2.50 Gold
    1889 for $3. Gold
    1880 for $4. Gold
    1929 for $5 Gold
    1933 for $10 Gold

    Legislation dated August 3, 1964 authorized the coinage of 45 million silver dollars and 316,076 dollars of the Peace design dated 1964 were struck at the Denver mint in 1965. All were supposedly destroyed. That was the beginning of the MODERN blunders. image
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    TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 45,086 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ironically it was a hundred years earlier we had the private coin act of 1864 which ended private coinage (though that wasn't enforced until about 1883 or thereabouts) I'd have to look it up.
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    For strictly U.S. coinage:

    Gold: 1840-date.
    Silver: 1878-date.
    Nickel: 1883-date.
    Copper: 1864-date.

    The rest of the world could care less.

    Hoot
    From this hour I ordain myself loos'd of limits and imaginary lines. - Whitman
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    flaminioflaminio Posts: 5,664 ✭✭✭
    As I've written before, I refuse to acknowledge a distinction between "classic" and "modern". I view coins as a continuum from the earliest Lydian pieces to the latest US Mint product.

    Collect what you like, and don't let certain online personalities try to dictate the validity of your collection.
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    IrishMikeIrishMike Posts: 7,737 ✭✭✭
    I thought long and hard about this one and realized I don't have a definition of modern coin. What's the point to it? I collect coins from 1653 to present day. I don't need to label them in a category other than date, denomination and series. Why do we even have the terms modern and classic? I guess I have been living in a cave, never heard the term till I showed up here. image
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    sweetwillietsweetwilliet Posts: 2,316 ✭✭✭
    Main Entry: 1mod·ern
    Pronunciation: 'mä-d&rn, ÷'mä-d(&-)r&n
    Function: adjective
    Etymology: Late Latin modernus, from Latin modo just now, from modus measure -- more at METE
    1 a : of, relating to, or characteristic of the present or the immediate past : CONTEMPORARY b : of, relating to, or characteristic of a period extending from a relevant remote past to the present time
    2 : involving recent techniques, methods, or ideas : UP-TO-DATE
    3 capitalized : of, relating to, or having the characteristics of the present or most recent period of development of a language
    4 : of or relating to modernism : MODERNIST
    - mo·der·ni·ty /m&-'d&r-n&-tE, mä-, -'der-/ noun
    - mod·ern·ly /'mä-d&rn-lE/ adverb
    - mod·ern·ness /-d&rn-n&s/ noun

    I hope this clears it up for everyone, isn't it obvious?image
    Listen. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.
    Will’sProoflikes
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    cladkingcladking Posts: 30,162 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    I hope this clears it up for everyone, isn't it obvious?image >>



    Sure. There used to not be words so any coin with a word on it or struck since the invention of words is modern. image

    tempus fugit extra philosophiam.
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    cladkingcladking Posts: 30,162 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ya' know, when you think about it...

    ...the pyramids were ancient beyond words when the first coins were issued...
    tempus fugit extra philosophiam.
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    BECOKABECOKA Posts: 16,961 ✭✭✭
    My definition is when gold stopped circulating. So around 1933 to present.
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    1909 to date Lincoln cents
    1938 to date Jeffs
    1946 to date Roosies
    1932 to date Washingtons
    1964 to date Kennedy
    1965 to date anything else

    I don't think you can divide a series into eras when the design hasn't changed significantly,
    if at all. Include Franklin halfs as modern and the dead president dividing line makes a lot of sense.
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    ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,489 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Ya' know, when you think about it...

    ...the pyramids were ancient beyond words when the first coins were issued... >>

    I'm not sure how true this is. The Wikipedia coin page says some "Mesolithic stone tools and coins" were discovered in China in 1979-1980. The Mesolithic period goes from about 8000 BC to 5000 BC. If we use the Egyptian pyramids for our pyramid reference, it seems that construction began during the Old Kingdom. The Old Kingdom starts in the third millennium BC. Djoser was the first significant ruler during the Old Kingdom and ruled between 2630-2611 BC.

    If all that (from various Wikipedia pages) is true, then...

    ...the first Chinese coins were ancient beyond words when the first Egyptian pyramids were created....

    Maybe coins from before the pyramids are classic and coins after the pyramids are modern image If we use 8000 BC as the start of the coin era and 3000 BC as the divider between classic and modern then there would be 5000 years of classics and 5000 years of moderns!
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    Anything born in the last 50 years...WINK WINK!image
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    I would say it depends on the series I consider modern these

    Lincolns 1934 - date
    Jeffersons 1938 - date
    Roosevelts 1946 - date
    Washingtons 1932 - date
    Franklins 1948 - 1963
    Kennedys 1964 - date
    Ikes 1971 - 1978
    SBA s 1979 -1999
    Sacagawea 2000 - date
    Silver Commemoratives 1982 - date
    Gold Commemoratives 1984 - date
    SAE 1986 - date
    GAE 1986 - date
    PAE 1997 - date

    I would like to see a bid/ask sheet for these in certified PCGS/NGC I think would help promote the market on moderns. If you think this is good idea or not please tell me as I am thinking about printing one.
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    homerunhallhomerunhall Posts: 2,496 ✭✭✭

    FYI...

    The PCGS definition is 1965 to date...

    hrh
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    flaminioflaminio Posts: 5,664 ✭✭✭


    << <i>The PCGS definition is 1965 to date... >>

    So let it be written. So let it be done.
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    ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,489 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>The PCGS definition is 1965 to date... >>

    Well, the question is "What is your definition of MODERN?" Seems like many people have differing definitions.

    Does PCGS also use 1965 for world coins? Their fee schedule page says 1965-present for US moderns but doesn't give a date for world moderns.
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    LincolnCentManLincolnCentMan Posts: 5,347 ✭✭✭✭
    Cents 1959-present
    Nickels 1965-present
    Dimes 1965-present
    Quarters 1965-present
    Halves 1965-present
    Dollars 1936-present :-)
    Gold 1934-present
    Platinum 1997-present

    David
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    cladkingcladking Posts: 30,162 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>The PCGS definition is 1965 to date... >>

    Well, the question is "What is your definition of MODERN?" Seems like many people have differing definitions.

    Does PCGS also use 1965 for world coins? Their fee schedule page says 1965-present for US moderns but doesn't give a date for world moderns. >>



    I don't know but each country had its own date that it switched to base metal coinage
    and people quit saving it. While an arbitrary date like 1945 or '65 could be chosen for all world
    coins these changes happened at different times in different countries.
    tempus fugit extra philosophiam.
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    The eventual shift from symbolic representations on the obverse to dead presidents/historical figures (like Russ said, 1947 to 1948). But when someone says "modern crap" in a thread title, I always prepare myself to see something from 1965 and beyond.
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    dragondragon Posts: 4,548 ✭✭
    <<< What is your definition of MODERN? >>>




    1) Any coin where the huge majority of its value is derived from the plastic holder it's in.


    2) Any coin that you could crack out of its holder and spend, and no one would even raise an eyebrow.


    3) Any coin that the big submittors send in by the thousands hoping to "hit" on a few, and then dump off the ones that didn't make it for the cost of the slab or less.


    4) Most any coin where if the grade on the plastic drops 2-3 points or more it's worth face value.


    5) Any coin that if you submitted for grading 10-15 yrs. ago or more people would have laughed at you.


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    WorldTypeSetWorldTypeSet Posts: 1,363 ✭✭✭✭
    For us Canadians, it's 1953 ... when Queen Elizabeth II appeared on our coins.
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    cladkingcladking Posts: 30,162 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i><<< What is your definition of MODERN? >>>




    1) Any coin where the huge majority of its value is derived from the plastic holder it's in.


    2) Any coin that you could crack out of its holder and spend, and no one would even raise an eyebrow.


    3) Any coin that the big submittors send in by the thousands hoping to "hit" on a few, and then dump off the ones that didn't make it for the cost of the slab or less.


    4) Most any coin where if the grade on the plastic drops 2-3 points or more it's worth face value.


    5) Any coin that if you submitted for grading 10-15 yrs. ago or more people would have laughed at you. >>





    In other words moderns are crap. Thankyou for clearing that up.
    tempus fugit extra philosophiam.
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    itsnotjustmeitsnotjustme Posts: 8,788 ✭✭✭
    Post 1940 Cents
    Jefferson Nickels
    Roosevelt Dimes
    Post 1940 Quarters
    Franklin and Kennedy Halves
    Ike, SBA, Sac, Presidential Dollars (But I likes my Ikes!)


    Give Blood (Red Bags) & Platelets (Yellow Bags)!
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    dragondragon Posts: 4,548 ✭✭
    <<< In other words moderns are crap. Thankyou for clearing that up. >>>




    I didn't say that, where did I say that? I was just making some observations. image
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    cladkingcladking Posts: 30,162 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I didn't say that, where did I say that? I was just making some observations.




    1) Any coin where the huge majority of its value is derived from the plastic holder it's in. >>



    This applies to nearly half of high value moderns.



    << <i>
    2) Any coin that you could crack out of its holder and spend, and no one would even raise an eyebrow. >>



    This applies to three quarters of all collectible moderns. (edited to add; according to bashers)



    << <i>
    3) Any coin that the big submittors send in by the thousands hoping to "hit" on a few, and then dump off the ones that didn't make it for the cost of the slab or less. >>



    This applies to very few coins but they are nearly all moderns.



    << <i>
    4) Most any coin where if the grade on the plastic drops 2-3 points or more it's worth face value. >>



    I don't know if this applies more to moderns or classics but it's a very common bash for moderns.



    << <i>
    5) Any coin that if you submitted for grading 10-15 yrs. ago or more people would have laughed at you. >>



    This applies to all moderns.


    Your meaning is quite clear.


    tempus fugit extra philosophiam.
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    DHeathDHeath Posts: 8,472 ✭✭✭
    1) Any coin where the huge majority of its value is derived from the plastic holder it's in. >>

    Actually, an 83-P Washington in unc is worth $30 raw. Very few of the moderns I buy can be purchased at sheet. I wouldn't be opposed to it, mind you. Many of the coins are just extremely difficult to find, price aside. Gem 72-P Ikes are just tough raw. Dcam SMS coins are tough too. Most of the stuff I collect is raw. I holder the things I want to sell, because that's what others trust online.
    Developing theory is what we are meant to do as academic researchers
    and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
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    dbldie55dbldie55 Posts: 7,750 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>I didn't say that, where did I say that? I was just making some observations.




    1) Any coin where the huge majority of its value is derived from the plastic holder it's in. >>



    This applies to nearly half of high value moderns.



    << <i>
    2) Any coin that you could crack out of its holder and spend, and no one would even raise an eyebrow. >>



    This applies to three quarters of all collectible moderns. (edited to add; according to bashers)



    << <i>
    3) Any coin that the big submittors send in by the thousands hoping to "hit" on a few, and then dump off the ones that didn't make it for the cost of the slab or less. >>



    This applies to very few coins but they are nearly all moderns.



    << <i>
    4) Most any coin where if the grade on the plastic drops 2-3 points or more it's worth face value. >>



    I don't know if this applies more to moderns or classics but it's a very common bash for moderns.



    << <i>
    5) Any coin that if you submitted for grading 10-15 yrs. ago or more people would have laughed at you. >>



    This applies to all moderns.


    Your meaning is quite clear. >>



    So you have the same definition of a modern as Dragon. What is the problem with that?
    Collector and Researcher of Liberty Head Nickels. ANA LM-6053
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    << <i>I'd say anything post 1837 is 'modern'. >>



    This can change slightly according to your favorite series. For half dollars, the cutoff is 1836.



    << <i>Using the steam press as the beginning of modern coinage? >>



    Steam press and full hubbing of design. I don't know when this change was made with other series, but the mint began experimenting with fully hubbed halves in 1834.
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    cladkingcladking Posts: 30,162 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    So you have the same definition of a modern as Dragon. What is the problem with that? >>



    There's no problem except that, as is normally the case, some people can't
    see the simple fact that what applies to some moderns does not apply to all
    or that ascribing characteristics to something doesn't make it true.

    A lot of people still laugh at those who submit coins like a gem 1969 quarter.
    It is coming to say much more about the laugher than the submittor.
    tempus fugit extra philosophiam.
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    mr1931Smr1931S Posts: 7,076 ✭✭✭✭✭
    "FYI...The PCGS definition is 1965 to date...hrh"

    I considered the reasonableness of defining "modern" coins as starting in 1965 as well. Of course, the first clad coinage is what this year (1965) represents.

    However...

    I thought it more reasonable to consider the end of the gold coin production, exemplified by the rare/ultra-rare 1933 coins, to be the year of the last classics for my own definition.

    image

    “I have all the money I want, and there is a better use I can make of my time. We work to become, not to acquire.” — Elbert Hubbard

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    mr1931Smr1931S Posts: 7,076 ✭✭✭✭✭
    My case for 1933 being the last year of the "classics" and 1934 being the first year of the "moderns":

    ONE CENT-Yes. The most commonly seen of all 1933 coins. As Lincolns go, however, '33's are not "common."
    FIVE CENTS-None minted.
    ONE DIME-None minted.
    QUARTER DOLLAR-None minted.
    HALF DOLLAR-Yes. 1933-S is by no means a "common" Walker, however. In fact, it is "very scarce" in mint-state condition.
    ONE DOLLAR-None minted.
    2 1/2 DOLLARS-None minted.
    FIVE DOLLARS-None minted.
    TEN DOLLARS-Yes. Rare. Only the very wealthy can afford to own a 1933 Eagle at today's prices, however.
    TWENTY DOLLARS-Yes, but considered illegal to own. See "Illegal Tender."

    For all practical purposes, only three denominations (out of 10 that had been made recently, in the years relative to 1933) of coins are available to collectors that bear the date "1933."

    1933 is a year of disappearance. 1934 is a year of emergence.

    “I have all the money I want, and there is a better use I can make of my time. We work to become, not to acquire.” — Elbert Hubbard

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    bumanchubumanchu Posts: 1,383 ✭✭✭

    Okay Y'all, thanks for the clarity. I now have 314 working definitions of "modern".

    Not really, I have better things to do than count all of the variations on what constitutes moderns presented thus far.

    In summary, each person has his/her own definition or has adopted someone else's definition.

    The way I see it with all things considered the potential modern basher group based on their definition of moderns vastly outnumbers the "modern lovers" (whatever that means) on this board.

    And that could probably be extrapolated to encompass the total of the group of people that consider themselves to be true collectors.

    So what would a true collector be??????

    I'd bet there are a plethora of answers each with their own subtle nuances.

    So why do we spend so much time on things such as this anyway??
    And I ain't lying this time.
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    mr1931Smr1931S Posts: 7,076 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think a true collector appreciates most all coins, "modern" or "classic," no matter.

    I am in awe of the South Dakota quarter. What a wonderful design with Mt. Rushmore, the state bird, and stalks of wheat. The Sacajawea dollar is a beautiful coin, in my opinion. Having said that, my appreciation and interest for coins mostly leans towards the "classics" as I, and I alone, define them.

    The title of this thread is "What is your definition of MODERN?' and that is precisely what I have been attempting to share with y'all.image

    The one thing all collectors need to keep in mind is this:

    NEVER ever berate another's collection, no matter how meager you might consider that collection to be.

    image

    “I have all the money I want, and there is a better use I can make of my time. We work to become, not to acquire.” — Elbert Hubbard

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    I am more inclined to call anything modern post 1916.
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    mozinmozin Posts: 8,755 ✭✭✭
    Where I consider the end of non-moderns:

    a) Classic Commemoratives (1892-1954), although I could personally easily end it prior to the 1946 Booker Ts and Washington Carvers.

    b) Liberty Nickels (1883-1912)

    c) Barber Dimes, Quarters, and Half Dollars (1892-1916)

    d) Morgan Dollars (1878-1921)

    e) Indian Head Quarter Eagles and Half Eagles (1908-1929)

    f) Indian Head Eagles (1907-1933)

    g) Saints Double Eagles (1907-1933)

    I consider everything later "modern"image, and I have none in my collection.
    I collect Capped Bust series by variety in PCGS AU/MS grades.
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    flaminioflaminio Posts: 5,664 ✭✭✭
    Here's a definition for you:

    Modern -- coins with IGWT
    Classic -- coins without IGWT

    Flame on!
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    kiddkidd Posts: 231 ✭✭
    Well... I see that we are all in agreement.image


    I`m not in favor of 64 being the difining year for the cutoff, but i guess when the silver left the market, it was a great loss for all.

    I do find several series that i enjoy collecting more than others, and once the series ended, I lose interest in the next series minted.
    The walker halves for example. I feel that those are classics, while the Franklins are "semi classic" Kennedys would fall under "Moderns"

    I guess i learned what i wanted to learn by starting this thread. We will never agree on what IS or ISN`T a modern or a classic. While i do agree that there needs to be a line drawn for grading purposes such as HRH described,but there should never be a line drawn for collectability.



    Thank you all for your time and input. It is greatly appreciated.
    If you can read this, your too close.

    A DAMMIT BOY from Jonesy 1/25/05

    Lieutenant, Covert Operations
    Subcommittee

    my first POTD award 7/16/05
    the cat ate my blue fish.

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