As a buyer you figured out you were buried before you send payment!

BAJJERFAN · November 25, 2006 4:49AM

Would you back out of the deal?

notwilight · November 25, 2006 4:51AM

Happend to me. I offered the seller $100 to pay fees and put $50 or so in his pocket and relist the item. He declined. I paid. It is a contract. Unless you can renegotiate it, it binds. --Jerry

Sporkadelic · November 25, 2006 4:55AM

<< Happend to me. I offered the seller $100 to pay fees and put $50 or so in his pocket and relist the item. He declined. I paid. It is a contract. Unless you can renegotiate it, it binds. --Jerry >>

Right answer, IMO. Unless there's been some misrepresentation by the seller, a deal's a deal.

bhartman35 · November 25, 2006 5:02AM

Unless there was misrepresentation, a deal's a deal.

FatMan · November 25, 2006 9:17AM

Another thread where absolutes don't work. Again, it depends on how severe the burial. And it depends on how it was determined. In many cases I would just suck it up and buy the coin. But if the amount were substantial I would walk away. I have serious problems with anyone who sells a coin that buries a buyer. I don't feel obligated to forward their agenda.

Fairlaneman · November 25, 2006 9:56AM

If you are buried completely to the surface line of China then you would be a sucker. A deal is a deal though.

Ken

coindeuce · November 25, 2006 9:57AM

<< Would you back out of the deal? >>

Depends on what type of transaction you're referring to. At least in the case of a mail order offering from an established dealer, if it's a first time attempt to buy from the dealer, it could help to ask for buyback terms prior to making a commitment. If the dealer refuses or hedges on terms, it likely is a sign that you are intended to be the pigeon.

robertpr · November 25, 2006 9:59AM

It's difficult to send payment from 6 feet under, but maybe my survivors would complete the transaction on behalf of my estate.

prenum · November 25, 2006 11:03AM

What a totally irresponsible question!!!

A deal is a deal. Unless the coin was misrepresented or there was a misunderstanding if either party backs out they're a slime ball! I would never do business with them again and I'm sure most others wouldn't either.

53BKid · November 25, 2006 12:49PM

I mistakenly didn't read the full description of an item and way overpaid. I stood up to the transaction. It stung a bit, but better than selling myself out.

mirabela · November 25, 2006 3:21PM

Remember that guy last year who bought one of those $11,000 lots of junk that was worth half that, maybe? Members of this forum by about 5 to 1 encouraged him to be an NPB and save himself the five grand. That's what he did. I believe, in that case, he did the right thing.

There are all kinds of lessons to take home from that experience, not the least of which is don't get into anything over your head, but you have a duty to yourself and your own family, too.

raycyca · November 25, 2006 3:29PM

I only wish it were true! I recently sold a 2006 PCGS 70 reverse proof gold piece to signguy2rc on E-bay for $5k. He stalled, then tried to renegotiate a lower price. He refused and said if I didn't lower the price, he would NOT pay. I told him we had a contract and he said he wasn't going to honor the bid. I hung up and he bought another cheaper with 15 minutes. I let E-bay know and left a neg and NPB notice. He responded that E-bay removed the NPB from his profile! Whom said it's a contract? E-bay will be the FIRST to let you know they can't FORCE a seller to complete the transaction. As MANY on these boards have found out. Good luck! Ray

wondercoin · November 25, 2006 3:44PM

Ray: I had the same thing happen to me recently and the buyer sent me a note apologizing for backing out of his obligation because he just found the product a bit cheaper elsewhere, but reminded me that "business is business". That gave me a good laugh at least when he put it that way - what more could I possibly say to the (hopeless) reniger (intentionally mispelled). Wondercoin.

mozin · November 25, 2006 3:56PM

If the seller offers a full refund less shipping fees, I think the buyer should be allowed out of the deal. There is no reason to have the coin shipped, and then returned for a full refund.

If the seller does not offer refunds, the buyer needs to either pay up, or work out a penalty payment with the seller.

Dog97 · November 25, 2006 3:59PM

Business might be business but being a real man is not cheap or easy.
Man up to it.

michael · November 25, 2006 4:01PM

greghansen · November 25, 2006 4:10PM

If the seller offers a return privilige, it makes sense to work something out without going through the motions of enforcing the sale, only to have the buyer return the coin as soon as it arrives. If there was no return privilige as part of the transaction, then I have more of a problem with a buyer who backs out of a deal.

majorbigtime · November 25, 2006 10:15PM

<< If the seller offers a return privilige, it makes sense to work something out without going through the motions of enforcing the sale, only to have the buyer return the coin as soon as it arrives. If there was no return privilige as part of the transaction, then I have more of a problem with a buyer who backs out of a deal. >>

Why bother. Just round-trip the coin for a refund and eat the shipping cost as your penance!

FatMan · November 26, 2006 12:03AM

As I read most of the replies here I get a sense that most are referring to backing out of transactions in general. That is not the question here. Buyers remorse on a fairly priced to even a somewhat overpriced coin is not an acceptable reason to back out of a deal. We are talking about being buried here. I read that as the coin being so overpriced it will never be sold again anywhere near that price in my lifetime.

For me, it is a non issue as I only do business with dealers who do not bury their customers. And, I always buy sight seen so there is never a surprise. And if I had not sent the money yet I always insure that I have a return privilege.

But again, this begs the question: Why do you feel obligated to complete the deal with someone who has not transacted in good faith. Selling a coin at a price that will bury you is hardly an ethical thing to do. Not long ago there was a thread here from a newby who had bid on, and won, one of those ebay hoard lots. We all know that they are loser lots, but when you read the text closely there has been no misrepresentation. Hype yes, but it is what it is. And the majority of the replies told this guy to walk away before he sent any money. The replies here are in total contradiction to that situation. Why?

BAJJERFAN · November 26, 2006 12:11AM

<< Why bother. Just round-trip the coin for a refund and eat the shipping cost as your penance! >>

Because the coin could get lost in transit, thus futher complicating an already bad situation.

Omega · November 26, 2006 12:12AM

A deal is a deal. You are the one holding the shovel. You buried yourself, now start digging your way clear!

FatMan · November 26, 2006 12:16AM

<< A deal is a deal. You are the one holding the shovel. You buried yourself, now start digging your way clear! >>

And in doing so I allow a non-ethical slimeball to profit? It is attitudes like this that perpetuate the breed.

bhartman35 · November 26, 2006 12:18AM

<< As I read most of the replies here I get a sense that most are referring to backing out of transactions in general. That is not the question here. Buyers remorse on a fairly priced to even a somewhat overpriced coin is not an acceptable reason to back out of a deal. We are talking about being buried here. I read that as the coin being so overpriced it will never be sold again anywhere near that price in my lifetime. >>

IMHO, there's no difference. Nobody forced you to bid at a level at which you could never hope to sell the coin. It's a free market exercise. If you choose to bid up a common date Lincoln to $1000, whose fault is that? If a seller puts an unreasonable BIN on an item, it shouldn't sell. And yes, it's unethical to take advantage of the unwary, but the OP wasn't about the seller's ethics. It was about what the buyer should do. And reneging on an item because you realized you got taken isn't an option, IMO. The only pertinent issue is whether the item was represented accurately. If it was, and you bid, then you're stuck with it.

In order for the marketplace to work, everyone has to play by the established rules.

Edited to Add:

I speak from experience. On more than one occasion I've had to take my lumps on bad deals because I was over-eager or hadn't read the description carefully enough. It's a valuable learning experience when it happens to you.

FatMan · November 26, 2006 12:21AM

bhartman35

Again, who said anything about an auction? That is an entirely different animal.

orie · November 26, 2006 12:23AM

Be careful when putting in those snipes. I moved a decimal and it cost a couple hundred bucks.

bhartman35 · November 26, 2006 12:24AM

<< bhartman35

Again, who said anything about an auction? That is an entirely different animal. >>

How so? Whether it's an auction or an outright sale, if you put your money down, it's down.

FatMan · November 26, 2006 12:26AM

<< How so? Whether it's an auction or an outright sale, if you put your money down, it's down. >>

If your money is down, and you have no return option you have bought the coin. At this point, no money is down.

RBinTex · November 26, 2006 12:30AM

Does the seller have an unconditional return policy?

bhartman35 · November 26, 2006 12:39AM

<< If your money is down, and you have no return option you have bought the coin. At this point, no money is down. >>

If you made the promise to buy the coin at the price stated in the sale, you've essentially put your money down, even if you haven't sent it yet. The exact legalities probably depend on the venue, but in general, if you agree to a sale, the buyer owes the money and the seller owes the merchandise. The seller can, at his/her discretion, cancel the sale, since the merchandise hasn't been shipped (and I've done that at least once, when I figured I was dealing with a newbie and I wasn't really out anything since I could relist the item for free), but the buyer is at the seller's mercy at that point in the transaction. It's easier for both parties to back out when nothing has yet been exchanged, but the seller has every right to expect payment.

Teletrader1950 · November 27, 2006 3:24AM

I will take it on the chin before backing out of a deal and comprimising my integrity. I occasionally have had people flake out of an ebay deal (buyer's remorse) and offer all kinda sleazy excuses about how they hit the wrong button, etc. Don't care for these types at all. They deserve to be negged. At the very least I would block them from future bidding.

Recently I purchased a $5 Gold Modern Commem coin for $200 sight unseen (the seller has multiple coins available for this issue with a stock photo) on ebay (CDN bid was $210) in the slab of a major TPG graded PF 69 ultra Cameo. The coin had a 1/16 to 1/8 inch scratch or hairline visible (under magnification actually two making it appear longer) with the naked eye near the rim at 11 o clock (if you tilt the coin a certain way) - there is no way this coin should have been graded a 69 by the TPG as I would hardly consider this a miniscule mark (ANA grading standards define 69 as one or two miniscule marks but no hairlines visible). I thought about returning the coin but the seller had a no return policy on slabs. I simply will take it on the chin. The 4 other coins I got from him sight unseen were ok and made the grade - they were 69's as well. Text

notwilight · November 27, 2006 3:27AM

<< Remember that guy last year who bought one of those $11,000 lots of junk that was worth half that, maybe? Members of this forum by about 5 to 1 encouraged him to be an NPB and save himself the five grand. That's what he did. I believe, in that case, he did the right thing. There are all kinds of lessons to take home from that experience, not the least of which is don't get into anything over your head, but you have a duty to yourself and your own family, too. >>

So for enough money then it is ok, and recommended by forum members, to ignore the rules and your contract responsibilities. That's why the OP asked the question. --Jerry

pharmer · November 27, 2006 3:32AM

<< Remember that guy last year who bought one of those $11,000 lots of junk that was worth half that, maybe? Members of this forum by about 5 to 1 encouraged him to be an NPB and save himself the five grand. That's what he did. I believe, in that case, he did the right thing. >>

ChannelIslands. Still here, under another name I think.

As a buyer you figured out you were buried before you send payment!

Comments

Leave a Comment