It looks like an MS-66, but once you get beyond MS-65, grading from photos is REALLY impossilbe.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
I've long thought it was the most undergraded coin in my collection. There is not a single hit anywhere. The luster is explosive; it's a frighteningly bright, reflective coin that is difficult to photograph because of it. The obverse strike is completely off the charts; try to find a 1920 in any grade that is as hammered. I look at every aspect of this coin and just don't get the MS64 designation. Check the Heritage or Teletrade archives and you won't find one of these in 66 that approaches it, because the central obverse is weak on almost all of them. The moral of the story: Graders have bad days. I'm going to either crack it out and resubmit raw, or order a presidential review. Resubmitting raw may be a bad move, I fear they'll give it the standard cursory glance and give the same grade again. I'm leaning toward the Presidential review, but I'm even hesitant to try that--there's human nature and pride involve, and no grader would give it a 66, for that would be a tacit admission that they were off by two full grades, and it ain't gonna happen. Even if this coin were MS67, they just don't have it in them to upgrade it by more than one grade.
That's a definite crackout candidate. I have never EVER seen a MS64 Buff with detail and luster like that. I'd like to know what they were smoking in the grading room the day that one came in.
<< <i>That's a definite crackout candidate. I have never EVER seen a MS64 Buff with detail and luster like that. I'd like to know what they were smoking in the grading room the day that one came in. >>
That's better. Thank you, Sliderider. You are my friend and I hope you have a wonderful Thanksgiving.
The only reason I can see why they would have given that coin that grade is that the PCGS graders thought it had been dipped. That's something you can't always tell from photo, and sometimes not even in person.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
I would honestly post a link to this thread to the president of the United States of America and see if he can't grant diplomatic immunity to whoever let that slip out of PCGS with such a grade.
PERIOD
That is shameful. How is that for SHOCK ?
Presidential Review ON THE HOUSE ! HELLOOOOOOOO ?????????????????????????????????????
<< <i>I would honestly post a link to this thread to the president of the United States of America and see if he can't grant diplomatic immunity to whoever let that slip out of PCGS with such a grade.
PERIOD
That is shameful. How is that for SHOCK ?
Presidential Review ON THE HOUSE ! HELLOOOOOOOO ????????????????????????????????????? >>
VERY impressive. You should be a professional sympathizer.
Wow- I thought my 1920 PCGS MS64 was undergraded, but they REALLY missed the boat on your coin. I haven't seen a stronger strike on a 1920 outside of the text books. And it is obvious that this coin has luster to spare. I would actually try the crackout first, and if it came back 64 again, then I would try the presidential review.
Nice coin- the best you have posted yet in my opinion-
Well out of the holder it has come. I just don't think a Presidential Review will work; PCGS is so doggone tough these days I believe they might kick it up one notch (which is fine, it may very well be only 65), but there is no way they would consider 66; and I believe it has a shot at that. So I've cracked it out and am sending it across the street.
Here's what she looks like now, with no plastic in the way. I'm indebted to you all for your very helpful remarks.
Not sure I like the 'look' of the coin. As for being hosed by the grade - I suppose that matters if you were the original submittor or if you bought it in the 64 holder.
oh heck they,ll give it a 7 on a bad day over there across the street. unless we aint seeing something the 4 graders did... i cant see it as anything other than a 5++
Well, I'm not sending it back to PCGS. They saw it as 64, and it's time to give a fresh set of eyes a chance. I have some free submissions coming at NGC, and that's where this one is going.
Comments
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
I suspect the TPGs are too chicken to give it a 67 because of the sharp rise in value between 66 and 67, so they stuck with 66.
...wait a second, the proofs stopped in 1916.
I'll guess MS 66. Nice coin, and a darn nice strike too...Mike
Hoard the keys.
Congratulations!
Tom
The moral of the story: Graders have bad days. I'm going to either crack it out and resubmit raw, or order a presidential review. Resubmitting raw may be a bad move, I fear they'll give it the standard cursory glance and give the same grade again. I'm leaning toward the Presidential review, but I'm even hesitant to try that--there's human nature and pride involve, and no grader would give it a 66, for that would be a tacit admission that they were off by two full grades, and it ain't gonna happen. Even if this coin were MS67, they just don't have it in them to upgrade it by more than one grade.
<< <i>...just don't get the MS64 designation. >>
<< <i>Come on. Where is the shock and outrage, the massive outpouring of "you got hosed" sympathy?
You got HOSED!
<< <i>That's a definite crackout candidate. I have never EVER seen a MS64 Buff with detail and luster like that. I'd like to know what they were smoking in the grading room the day that one came in.
That's better. Thank you, Sliderider. You are my friend and I hope you have a wonderful Thanksgiving.
Put the big guy on the hot seat!!!!!!
He has been known to do the right thing......
The only reason I can see why they would have given that coin that grade is that the PCGS graders thought it had been dipped. That's something you can't always tell from photo, and sometimes not even in person.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
<< <i>64? I am shocked and chagrinned! That grade is outrageous, egregious, preposterous. >>
...and one of the more heinous acts ever perpetrated against numismatic personage!
PERIOD
That is shameful.
How is that for SHOCK ?
Presidential Review ON THE HOUSE ! HELLOOOOOOOO ?????????????????????????????????????
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>I would honestly post a link to this thread to the president of the United States of America and see if he can't grant diplomatic immunity to whoever let that slip out of PCGS with such a grade.
PERIOD
That is shameful.
How is that for SHOCK ?
Presidential Review ON THE HOUSE ! HELLOOOOOOOO ????????????????????????????????????? >>
VERY impressive. You should be a professional sympathizer.
Nice coin- the best you have posted yet in my opinion-
Here's what she looks like now, with no plastic in the way. I'm indebted to you all for your very helpful remarks.
Best of luck on this one. I'm with everyone saying this should 65 or better.
BTW, where do you come up with these beautiful Buffs, Guy? Keep it up, brother.
Garrow
they,ll give it a 7 on a bad day over there across the street.
unless we aint seeing something the 4 graders did...
i cant see it as anything other than a 5++
ebay ID: 78terp
ANA # R-3143946
1899 Mint Set