Trueview will be missed...not!

shylock · November 7, 2006 8:42AM

All due respects, but...I never got this form of coin imaging.

It was an enhanced, "give the client what they want" sort of imaging technique. Well done, and the photographer
was admired by me.

But lets face it, there is no "Trueview", and all of you who bought into the PCGS hype got caught up in the enhanced
images. Who could blame you.

PCGS took totally awesome images.

The objective side of me thinks that coin looks more like this than the "True View" rendition.

What do I know. I saw the coin in person, imaged it, and though I wasn't completely satisfied with my image, I thought
I came close. The TrueView image looks like an overlit characterture of of this coin.

I know most of you disagree and I will be blasted on this thread. But I have been consistent about True View from day 1,
I admire the photographer, think he does great work, but don't agree with his technique. True View is an enhanced view.

Julio · November 7, 2006 8:54AM

True View is an enhanced view.

Wow and I thought I was the only one.

.

The only good picture is an accurate depiction. Impossible to do, but the people that try are the ones that have my respect. There are many on this board who have a God given talent to come ever so close.

Anything other than the most accurate depiction is simple deception. JMO. jws

FatMan · November 7, 2006 8:59AM

Trueview™ = CartoonView™ IMO

Russ · November 7, 2006 9:08AM

Did I miss something? Is PCGS no longer offering image services?

Russ, NCNE

JRocco · November 7, 2006 9:09AM

I had 1 coin done with TruView and when I saw the image I said----"That's My coin?????"
I use my own image to show the coin here.
Nuff said.

coinguy1 · November 7, 2006 9:10AM

<< Did I miss something? Is PCGS no longer offering image services?

Russ, NCNE >>

Incredibly, you did

: see here, near the top of the 3'd page

Russ · November 7, 2006 9:15AM

Well, I'll be damned. You'd think they would have made an announcement instead of the news coming because somebody wanted to use the service and couldn't.

Russ, NCNE

rays · November 7, 2006 9:18AM

I like trueview and am sorry it's gone.

mercurynut · November 7, 2006 9:24AM

TrueView was is and would always have been a joke.

messydesk · November 7, 2006 9:33AM

Kind of a pity TrueView™ is no longer with us, but First Strike™ is. Yes, they were glam shots, but they were good glam shots unhampered by a layer of plastic. I'm not surprised it was unprofitable, given the time that needs to go into making them. The time it took to get one picture taken and put on media in its final form was probably far more than the amount of time it takes for a coin to go through the grading room. On the bright side, PCGS no longer has an "unfair advantage" over others when imaging coins.

tradedollarnut · November 7, 2006 9:44AM

Funny how the naysayers are the ones who didn't use the service. I had almost every single coin I own imaged by True View and I loved the results.

mgoodm3 · November 7, 2006 9:55AM

I was OK with Trueview. They have great detail. To me they look a little over-processed at times.

JRocco · November 7, 2006 9:56AM

<< Funny how the naysayers are the ones who didn't use the service. I had almost every single coin I own imaged by True View and I loved the results. >>

Hey TDN- I didn't use the service BECAUSE I am a naysayer

Leiana · November 7, 2006 9:57AM

There was one TV picture posted of a matte proof Lincoln cent and it was SUPER huge! But you could see all the details very well. That was a neat picture.

-Amanda

TomB · November 7, 2006 10:07AM

I never sent a coin in for TrueView, and I am on record as writing that the two coins I owned that had been sent through the service by their prior owners were a mixed bag of reality, but I will miss the service because it provided an extraoridinarily high level of quality in image presentation that would not otherwise be available to most folks.

nwcs · November 7, 2006 10:10AM

I think it was a helpful service for some. I take my own pics, of course, so I don't need the service. But for people who want something to look at while their coins are in the vault it's a nice service.

Cladiator · November 7, 2006 10:14AM

<< There was one TV picture posted of a matte proof Lincoln cent and it was SUPER huge! But you could see all the details very well. That was a neat picture.

-Amanda >>

The detail in the massive images was what really got me hooked on TrueView. When you spend every waking hour scrutinizing 15mm coins it's pretty darn nice to pop up a detail accurate image that takes up the entire computer screen. Images like that are excellent tools for attribution, excellent tools. TrueView was not essential by any means but it was nice.

The first photo below is of a 15.5mm circle, the size of a Capped Bust Half Dime. The second photo is a die crack on a half dime, the 9 in the date is less than 1.5mm tall. The third photo is a portion of the same half dime showing the extra serif of C. The extra serif is roughly .25mm long.

coinguy1 · November 7, 2006 10:15AM

<<...but I will miss the service because it provided an extraoridinarily high level of quality in image presentation that would not otherwise be available to most folks.>>

That's a very important point that Tom just raised. And, regardless of how critics of the service might feel, the bottom line is that the opinions and happiness of the customers who used it, are the ones that really count.

JRocco · November 7, 2006 10:27AM

<< <<...but I will miss the service because it provided an extraoridinarily high level of quality in image presentation that would not otherwise be available to most folks.>>

That's a very important point that Tom just raised. And, regardless of how critics of the service might feel, the bottom line is that the opinions and happiness of the customers who used it, are the ones that really count. >>

I agree with all this.

IGWT · November 7, 2006 10:30AM

-- "the bottom line is that the opinions and happiness of the customers who used it, are the ones that really count." --

Apparently not.

JRocco · November 7, 2006 10:33AM

<< -- "the bottom line is that the opinions and happiness of the customers who used it, are the ones that really count." --

Apparently not.

>>

When you are the king of the forrest..you can leave an unfinished carcass around anytime you like.....

coinguy1 · November 7, 2006 10:34AM

<< -- "the bottom line is that the opinions and happiness of the customers who used it, are the ones that really count." --

Apparently not.

>>

Please edit my quote to read <<The bottom line is that the opinions and happiness of the customers who used it, are the ones that really count (just not as much as the opinions of those who formerly offered the service)>>

michael · November 7, 2006 10:43AM

All due respects, but...I never got this form of coin imaging.

It was an enhanced, "give the client what they want" sort of imaging technique. Well done, and the photographer
was admired by me.

But lets face it, there is no "Trueview", and all of you who bought into the PCGS hype got caught up in the enhanced
images. Who could blame you.

michael · November 7, 2006 10:45AM

if you want killer monster photos of coins that are true to life in hand sight seen

then contact mike r. mikeinfl on these here forums

the results are amazing

but i do not know if he does photos for others and then you got to live in his neck of the woods to personally hand deliever them and then he takes the photos and then you leave with your coins same day

Cam40 · November 7, 2006 10:47AM

mgoodm3`s images are way better imo
he could maybe take up the service if pcgs was looking to outsource the job..

i dont know but the trueview pics colors all looked too close to the same to me
they all just look sorta sepitone like those old old west photos.
they do show alittle color other than sepitone but its very subtle and..dont add enough to make the pics accurate

GoldenEyeNumismatics · November 7, 2006 11:13AM

I liked Trueview. They were great with photographing toned coins.

MikeInFL · November 7, 2006 12:14PM

<< if you want killer monster photos of coins that are true to life in hand sight seen

then contact mike r. mikeinfl on these here forums

the results are amazing
>>

Michael, Considering you've seen many of the coins I've photographed, I certainly appreciate your informed opinion...but you are too kind.

FWIW, I try and err on producing images that are an accurate a portrayal of the coins in hand, and I agree with Shylock that their images were not an accurate portrayal -- they were "too good" in terms of lighting, and they used enhancements to hue/saturation and contrast that I do not feel comfortable in using while still keeping the "accuracy of the image to the coin in-hand is the most important factor" mantra.

That being said, many really liked TrueView's way of doing photography, and who am I to question what another person likes/wants?

To each his own...Mike

Connecticoin · November 7, 2006 12:29PM

I always thought Truviews were a bit cartoonish, especially for white silver coins --- but certainly better than I could do (now I got to work on trying to improve my DIY photos again!!)

The exception were the rainbow toned coins, particularly Sunnywood's Morgans -- to capture the colors, the luster was dialed down to a reasonable level such that the photos looked more realistic.

Sunnywood · November 7, 2006 12:59PM

Is this thread for real ??????

Discontinuing True View would be unfair and a disaster for me. I have had over (150) toned Morgans from my collection imaged, and more than (60) Barber quarters, along with miscellaneous type coins. As I continue to build these Regsitry sets, how will I image the remaining coins, and any new coins that I buy? In fact I was planning to bring quite a few coins to Baltimore for True View submission. And incidentally, as long as the coins were being taken out of the holders anyway, I always had them regraded too. So that's probably (250) Express grading fees that I paid PCGS only because I was getting the photography done at the same time. (Yes, I got a few good upgrades that covered the cost, probably about a breakeven from that standpoint.)

Unless I hear otherwise, I am going ahead to Baltimore with my submissions. If they refuse the submissions or tell me they no longer offer the service, you will hear very loud hollering and bellowing at the PCGS table. I will be livid that they induced me to send in hundreds of coins (subjecting them to shipping and handling too) and are now discontinuing the service while I am in the middle of building my sets.

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRR.

Sunnywood

Pentimento · November 7, 2006 1:11PM

<< I will be livid that they induced me to send in hundreds of coins (subjecting them to shipping and handling too) and are now discontinuing the service while I am in the middle of building my sets.

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRR.

Sunnywood >>

The only way that they induced anything is if they made some sort of untrue claim. What company ever claims that a product or service will be available assuredly in the future?

Burks · November 7, 2006 1:26PM

Trueview was good for a few reasons. One for those who did not know how to take pictures of their coins and wanted to share them with others. And another to offer buyers a sight of what the coin looks like before purchasing. Not everyone has the funds to drop on a camera just to take pretty coin pictures. This offered a reasonably cheap alternative.

I prefer to image my own but if I ever sent a really cool toner to PCGS, I would of got the Trueview. Mostly because I absolutely SUCK at photographing toning.

kranky · November 7, 2006 9:28PM

Kind of surprised to hear that PCGS discontinued TrueView, as they had a full-page ad for it in the Numismatist I just received a few days ago.

lordmarcovan · November 7, 2006 9:34PM

<< True View is an enhanced view >>

Good point, maybe it should've been called "BestView". That sounds nicely gimmicky. But there's nothing wrong with wanting the best possible image of one's coin, which shows it in the best possible light (literally and figuratively), without outright dishonest image tampering.

<< Yes, they were glam shots, but they were good glam shots unhampered by a layer of plastic. >>

I never really thought about the comparison to glamor shots. That's a pretty good metaphor for the whole thing, I suppose.

Cameonut · November 7, 2006 9:34PM

<< Is this thread for real ??????

Discontinuing True View would be unfair and a disaster for me. I have had over (150) toned Morgans from my collection imaged, and more than (60) Barber quarters, along with miscellaneous type coins. As I continue to build these Regsitry sets, how will I image the remaining coins, and any new coins that I buy? In fact I was planning to bring quite a few coins to Baltimore for True View submission. And incidentally, as long as the coins were being taken out of the holders anyway, I always had them regraded too. So that's probably (250) Express grading fees that I paid PCGS only because I was getting the photography done at the same time. (Yes, I got a few good upgrades that covered the cost, probably about a breakeven from that standpoint.)

Unless I hear otherwise, I am going ahead to Baltimore with my submissions. If they refuse the submissions or tell me they no longer offer the service, you will hear very loud hollering and bellowing at the PCGS table. I will be livid that they induced me to send in hundreds of coins (subjecting them to shipping and handling too) and are now discontinuing the service while I am in the middle of building my sets.

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRR.

Sunnywood >>

I absolutely agree with you Sunnywood. I am already more than mad at PCGS at the moment. Having completed about 60% of the coins that I want to image, I feel that I have been left high and dry with no notice (or recourse)

True View imaging was something I pursued with discretionary funds and I intended to get them done in the next year or so. After all, I would rather spend the money on more coins or grading than photographs. But I like the True View service and wanted my Registry Set to be 100% imaged.

To top it all off, a package of 20 coins is already in tranist to PCGS for imaging. What are they going to do now? Refuse my package and charge me return shipping?

I wish I was going to Baltimore - I would be in line to do some hollering and bellowing too!

CarsonCityGold · November 7, 2006 10:29PM

For those of us with NO imaging skills, TrueView is a valuable tool in helping to display our collections. I have used the service since its inception and have been completely satisfied. I had a 8 coin submission (regrade and imaging) that was logged in on 10-17-06 and the results posted yesterday. The emailed images arrived overnight. I now have about half of my coins imaged with TrueView. I will be VERY disapointed if this service has been discontinued!! Here's one that arrived last night - 74CC $5 VF30

ellewood · November 7, 2006 11:01PM

I really liked the service. To each his own I guess.

Sunnywood,

Man, I finally came across someone who is more pi$$ed than I about this change. Here is my post from last night on the original TrueView thread that made the annoucement. Looks like I'll be at the PCGS table right next to you (might not be yelling AS loud...but I'll be next to you)

I have a submission in for TrueView that they received today. They said that my order is in process. Maybe they are accepting all submissions until they make the announcement to the public.

To reiterate, this is one of the BEST services that PCGS offers today. UNFREAKINGBELIEVABLE that they decided to do away with this service. It's obviously NOT the profit, because they would have just raised the price to $7,$8 or $10/coin. There is something else involved and I won't be able to sleep unti I know that the f&%# it is. I had 35 lincolns picked out for TrueView service that I was dropping at Baltimore this Friday.

My first stop in Baltimore will be to complain at the PCGS table.

What I do know is that someone really outta step in and take advantage of this opportunity IF INDEED this is a final decision on discontinuing this service. Someone could make some good money doing this...especially since SO MANY collectors want high quality images of their collections (which enables us to look at our coins without having to go to the bank vault to do so).

Cladiator · November 7, 2006 11:22PM

<< What I do know is that someone really outta step in and take advantage of this opportunity IF INDEED this is a final decision on discontinuing this service. Someone could make some good money doing this...especially since SO MANY collectors want high quality images of their collections (which enables us to look at our coins without having to go to the bank vault to do so). >>

Ellewood, it's not quite that simple. Even if Phil himself wanted to start doing this on his own he couldn't. All TrueView photos are taken when the coins are RAW. PCGS cracks the coins, photographs them and then slabs them up. Any photographer that wanted to offer a photo service privately would still have to photograph the slabbed coins while they are in the slab. The fact that the coins were raw when photographed was a huge factor in the quality of the images.

USCGCraig · November 7, 2006 11:25PM

I'm with you Sunnywood. I am going to bring 64 of my XF45 Barber Halves to the PCGS table on Friday. That is going to be my first stop instead of my last. I'll join you in offering my opinion. I just don't understand why they don't have the cahones to put a message on the PCGS.com main page making this supposed announcement? To me, it must be true otherwise we would have PCGS board members on in a hurry doscounting the fact.

Urrggghhhh!

<< Is this thread for real ??????

Discontinuing True View would be unfair and a disaster for me. I have had over (150) toned Morgans from my collection imaged, and more than (60) Barber quarters, along with miscellaneous type coins. As I continue to build these Regsitry sets, how will I image the remaining coins, and any new coins that I buy? In fact I was planning to bring quite a few coins to Baltimore for True View submission. And incidentally, as long as the coins were being taken out of the holders anyway, I always had them regraded too. So that's probably (250) Express grading fees that I paid PCGS only because I was getting the photography done at the same time. (Yes, I got a few good upgrades that covered the cost, probably about a breakeven from that standpoint.)

Unless I hear otherwise, I am going ahead to Baltimore with my submissions. If they refuse the submissions or tell me they no longer offer the service, you will hear very loud hollering and bellowing at the PCGS table. I will be livid that they induced me to send in hundreds of coins (subjecting them to shipping and handling too) and are now discontinuing the service while I am in the middle of building my sets.

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRR.

Sunnywood >>

tradedollarnut · November 7, 2006 11:33PM

IMO, PCGS is making a big mistake here. True View was one more reason to have high quality coins in their holder.

Cladiator · November 7, 2006 11:35PM

Gawd, I hate it when I agree with TDN.

ellewood · November 7, 2006 11:36PM

Cladiator,

I realize that the coins are RAW for TV service. And I also realize that it was a huge benefit. However, if PCGS is not going to offer this service then we all have to get over the fact that our coins can no longer be imaged raw and live with them being imaged while in the holder. I wouldn't be opposed to that because I have seen some incredible photography of coins EVEN THRU THE SLAB. Many photographers right here on the boards (i.e. Russ, mgoodm3, etc. ) have had a tremendous amount of success shooting coins thru PCGS slabs. Also, if someone wants to have a coin imaged and the holder has scratches on it...well then...I guess we will just have to send it in to be reholdered before it is photographed. I just think someone could make some good $$$$ even shooting thru nice clean slabs...JMO.

I sent Phil a PM this morning and may or may not hear back from him. I would also like to say that Phil has been tremendously helpful and responsive to all of my questions about shooting coins. He was more responsive than any other department at PCGS...customer service included. Maybe this thing will get turned around...maybe it will not. It's interesting to see all the "nay-sayers" now that PCGS has decided to can the service. Why didn't these people voice their opinion when the service was being offered?????

Cladiator · November 7, 2006 11:40PM

You're right. The opportunity is there for someone to step up to do in slab photography.

Phil gets a thumbs up from me for product, professionalism and customer service. If only the entire company could take a que from the way he conducted business.

About the nay-sayers, I remember hearing many folks voicing their opinions that they didn't like TV pics when they first started. Heck, I was one of them. Thank God we're allowed to change our minds.

poorguy · November 7, 2006 11:44PM

For those of you who find that TrueView photos are "enhanced", "cartoonish", or "not accurate". Have you pondered the thought that just because the coins look different in the images, maybe YOU don't really know what the coin looks like without plastic or up close or at a different perspective in VERY good lighting?

Who is to say that your perception of a coin is correct when someone else's (Someone who does it professionally, and has handled and imaged more coins than you've dreamed about in the last 2 years?), is incorrect because it isn't what "you" feel the coin looks like? Have you ever cracked it out and put it under high powered lights?

I can't believe how many people are spouting such negative remarks about these great images. Nobody else in the business provides such a stellar service as Phil's work and I would be truly upset if this service was dropped.

You guys probably know this but I've imaged thousands and thousands of rare and beautiful coins and all I can say is that I CAN ONLY HOPE to get images even close to the quality that Phil provided with the PCGS TrueView service.

AuldFartte · November 8, 2006 12:19AM

<< For those of you who find that TrueView photos are "enhanced", "cartoonish", or "not accurate". Have you pondered the thought that just because the coins look different in the images, maybe YOU don't really know what the coin looks like without plastic or up close or at a different perspective in VERY good lighting?

Who is to say that your perception of a coin is correct when someone else's (Someone who does it professionally, and has handled and imaged more coins than you've dreamed about in the last 2 years?), is incorrect because it isn't what "you" feel the coin looks like? Have you ever cracked it out and put it under high powered lights?

I can't believe how many people are spouting such negative remarks about these great images. Nobody else in the business provides such a stellar service as Phil's work and I would be truly upset if this service was dropped.

You guys probably know this but I've imaged thousands and thousands of rare and beautiful coins and all I can say is that I CAN ONLY HOPE to get images even close to the quality that Phil provided with the PCGS TrueView service. >>

I completely agree, and especially with your last comment. I'd give vital organs to be able to take photos like Phil's.

tradedollarnut · November 8, 2006 12:46AM

<< For those of you who find that TrueView photos are "enhanced", "cartoonish", or "not accurate". Have you pondered the thought that just because the coins look different in the images, maybe YOU don't really know what the coin looks like without plastic or up close or at a different perspective in VERY good lighting?

Who is to say that your perception of a coin is correct when someone else's (Someone who does it professionally, and has handled and imaged more coins than you've dreamed about in the last 2 years?), is incorrect because it isn't what "you" feel the coin looks like? Have you ever cracked it out and put it under high powered lights?

I can't believe how many people are spouting such negative remarks about these great images. Nobody else in the business provides such a stellar service as Phil's work and I would be truly upset if this service was dropped.

You guys probably know this but I've imaged thousands and thousands of rare and beautiful coins and all I can say is that I CAN ONLY HOPE to get images even close to the quality that Phil provided with the PCGS TrueView service. >>

MikeKing · November 8, 2006 1:38AM

<< 

<< What I do know is that someone really outta step in and take advantage of this opportunity IF INDEED this is a final decision on discontinuing this service. Someone could make some good money doing this...especially since SO MANY collectors want high quality images of their collections (which enables us to look at our coins without having to go to the bank vault to do so). >>

Ellewood, it's not quite that simple. Even if Phil himself wanted to start doing this on his own he couldn't. All TrueView photos are taken when the coins are RAW. PCGS cracks the coins, photographs them and then slabs them up. Any photographer that wanted to offer a photo service privately would still have to photograph the slabbed coins while they are in the slab. The fact that the coins were raw when photographed was a huge factor in the quality of the images. >>

I guess if you're confident that the grade of the coin is truly represented by the grade on the holder, cracking them out and photographing them shouldn't be much of a problem. On the other hand, who can be confident in the grade the coin will recieve when resubmitted, if the coin is graded at all and not bodybagged?

ellewood · November 8, 2006 1:46AM

For those of you who find that TrueView photos are "enhanced", "cartoonish", or "not accurate". Have you pondered the thought that just because the coins look different in the images, maybe YOU don't really know what the coin looks like without plastic or up close or at a different perspective in VERY good lighting?

Who is to say that your perception of a coin is correct when someone else's (Someone who does it professionally, and has handled and imaged more coins than you've dreamed about in the last 2 years?), is incorrect because it isn't what "you" feel the coin looks like? Have you ever cracked it out and put it under high powered lights?

I can't believe how many people are spouting such negative remarks about these great images. Nobody else in the business provides such a stellar service as Phil's work and I would be truly upset if this service was dropped.

You guys probably know this but I've imaged thousands and thousands of rare and beautiful coins and all I can say is that I CAN ONLY HOPE to get images even close to the quality that Phil provided with the PCGS TrueView service.

Sunnywood · November 8, 2006 4:18AM

In my opinion, the True View images created by Phil Arnold were absolutely outstanding. Perhaps that is the principal reason why I am very disappointed that we might lose a wonderful resource. I do hope PCGS will reconsider this decision.

If it was a matter of economics, all they had to do is raise the price, or perhaps ONLY offer True View in conjunction with grading. They couldn't possibly have been profitable charging only $5 per coin if no other services were purchased. Personally I thought the service would have been fairly priced at $20 per coin. And I would not have been offended if PCGS only offered the service in conjunction with grading. After all, that is their primary business.

Think it over, PCGS !!!

Best,
Sunnywood

mgoodm3 · November 8, 2006 4:21AM

Correct me if I'm wrong. I didn't think that you could send in a coin and get a $5 picture. Didn't it have to be done in conjuction with a reholder or grading?

MikeKing · November 8, 2006 6:08AM

Yes, you had to pay a reholder fee, if the coin was sent in just for photography, so $10/coin. No?
The more I think about it, the more I feel like there's a lost opportunity to get outstanding photographic records of my coins.

scher · November 8, 2006 6:17AM

I will miss Trueview...I have never had a coin done but really like the results..If they get back on board i will certainly get em done..great way to enjoy when the coin is out in a bank or sold collection..
Bruce Scher

Trueview will be missed...not!

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