What Comparable Value - HSN Purchase

aprillougheed · November 7, 2006 6:01AM

I made a coin purchase from HSN and I'm hoping it was a good value.

I've looked everywhere online and I can't find a comparable product. Any of you experts able to help out a newbie?

I was impressed with this product because it was SP-70, PR-70 and RS-70 respectively, as well as Deep Cameo and First Day of Issue.

I'm able to return it if you advise that I was hood-winked.

***2006 US Silver Eagle 20th Anniversary Coin Set - Item: 205-393 - $499.99***

http://www.hsn.com/cnt/prod/default.aspx?pfid=205393

Product Description
Enjoy this set of "20th Anniversary" 2006 U.S. Silver Eagle Dollars in the three different finishes - Uncirculated, Proof, and Reverse Proof, all have been independently graded and certified as perfect SP-70, PR-70 and RS-70 condition, respectively.

2006 U.S. Silver Eagle Dollar Set Features

(3) Silver Eagle coins - genuine legal tender silver bullion coin struck by the United States Mint. It has been made each year since 1986 in a limited edition and is now one of the world's most popular silver bullion coins.
Great imagery - features Adolph Weinman's walking Liberty on the face and a heraldic eagle with symbolism representing the original 13 colonies on back
Graded 70 - the highest grade possible
First Day of Issue
Proof and Uncirculated Eagles carry the "W" mint mark of West Point while the reverse proof coin carries the "P" mint mark of Philadelphia
Coins measure approx 1.6" in diameter
Each contains approx. 1 once of .9993 pure silver
Encapsulated in clear acrylic measuring approx. 2-3/8" x 3" x 1/4"
Display box approx. 10-1/2" X 4-5/8" X 1-1/2"
Certificate of Authenticity

Link to Product

WoodenJefferson · November 7, 2006 6:04AM

Cladiator · November 7, 2006 6:04AM

Return them. The company that encapsulated them, "ICG" isn't worth spit and the resale value is null.

itsnotjustme · November 7, 2006 6:05AM

The ICG slabs add no value... ICG 70 no better than raw. You can go order 5 new sets from the mint for the same total cost.

Connecticoin · November 7, 2006 6:07AM

Yes, return them. You have immediately lost $300+ from day one. If you return them, you only lose the cost of shipping them back.

aprillougheed · November 7, 2006 6:13AM

Thank you all so much. How nice to have this resource.

I feel so much better as I thought I had made a mistake.

I think I'll just erase HSN and QVC from my cable channel line up as those announcers are just too darn slick and persuasive.

Again - thank you all so much!

April

lordmarcovan · November 7, 2006 6:14AM

Well, you'll never get your money back out of them in resale, unless you return them like Cladiator suggested. While I'm not as harsh on ICG as some of the previous repliers, they are a lower-tier service, and their 70-grades carry no weight at all in the marketplace.

Generally speaking, any coins bought off TV are not a good value and are marked up exponentially. Plus they are usually very common coins, since the big shopping networks must have large quantities of stuff to drive their sales volume.

I agree that you should return them or chalk it up as a lesson learned, but it could've been worse. At least with the TV stuff you're not getting total junk or fake stuff, or stuff with hidden problems, like you would risk doing on eBay. From what I have seen, the problem with TV coins is not the quality or authenticity, just the markup of several hundred percent.

Be very wary of paying sky-high prices for ICG 70-graded material. It just isn't worth it. But at least ICG is a real grading service, albeit a secondary one. Lots of no-name, fly-by-night "grading service" holders are offered on eBay.

Return them. You did the right thing by asking this question here, and hopefully the lesson is learned without costing you big bucks. Stay away from the TV coins, and join us here more often. By joining these forums, you have taken a very important step towards your numismatic future.

PS- there's nothing wrong with watching the cable coin shopping, for entertainment value. Just keep your hands away from the phone and the credit card.

ibzman350 · November 7, 2006 6:16AM

<< Return them. The company that encapsulated them, "ICG" isn't worth spit and the resale value is null. >>

Ouch!!

Herb

Cladiator · November 7, 2006 6:19AM

<< I think I'll just erase HSN and QVC from my cable channel line up >>

Go ahead and watch them, I do all the time. Just remember they are for entertainment purposes only. Never buy from them.

mhammerman · November 7, 2006 6:20AM

Here, try this link and getchasome.Silver American Eagle Anniversary Set-$100

vaq45 · November 7, 2006 6:21AM

go to Smyrna coin.com--same thing for $299--i got mine in 3 days--they are great to deal with-and they are certified NGC 69

richardshipp · November 7, 2006 6:21AM

While we are giving tips, here's one.... Don't buy one of these either !!!

billboat · November 7, 2006 6:22AM

Don't buy HSN coins IMO--regardless of what TPG certification they have--you can do much better elsewhere.

WoodenJefferson · November 7, 2006 6:26AM

The display case is kinda neat, HSN sez it adds to the value

coinguy1 · November 7, 2006 6:29AM

I agree that the item should be returned, and be firm if you get any arguments from the seller. Remember, the seller has something to gain, monetarily by being persuasive. We, on the other hand, don't, so ask yourself where you are likely to get advice which is beneficial to YOU.

<<Generally speaking, any coins bought off TV are not a good value and are marked up exponentially>>

Ditto for those offered via radio ads or by unsolicited emails or phone calls.

robertpr · November 7, 2006 6:30AM

Don't buy a damn thing from any TV shopping channel. Most of it is junk and all of it is overpriced. The 3pc Silver Eagle set is available directly from the mint for $100 still. True, it won't be in ICG plastic, but then again ICG is, well, ICG. I don't have much experience handling ICG graded coins, but their general reputation in the marketplace, in my opinion, is that they overgrade modern coins and the resale value will be sorely lacking.

TwoSides2aCoin · November 7, 2006 6:33AM

Welcome to the boards.
It's a good thing you found this place

Joe

robertpr · November 7, 2006 6:34AM

<< The display case is kinda neat, HSN sez it adds to the value

>>

I like the display, but it's not really worth $400

aprillougheed · November 7, 2006 6:36AM

Thanks again everyone. Wow. I really learned a lot.

Just missed being able to cancel the HSN order - but looks like I'll only be out about $20 for shipping/return.

Man was I clueless - I was actually trying to find a comparative value at Ebay - so at first I thought I'd gotten a good buy from HSN. Oh my goodness. From the links you provided above - now I have the right information.

What a great forum. Excellent and appreciated.

April

Pentimento · November 7, 2006 6:37AM

aprillougheed -- I was just wondering two things.

1. How did you arrive at the PCGS message board? What kind of Google search did you do to find this place?

2. Did the TV seller mention sky-high eBay prices in their sales pitch?

lordmarcovan · November 7, 2006 6:42AM

<< <<Generally speaking, any coins bought off TV are not a good value and are marked up exponentially>>

Ditto for those offered via radio ads or by unsolicited emails or phone calls. >>

And any offered via mass-marketing in magazines or other media aimed at the general public, with very few exceptions. Littleton comes to mind. In the days before TV coin shopping, many of us made our first purchases from Littleton, and paid too much. But like the TV shopping networks, Littleton offers nice packaging and lots of historical background and slick catalogs packed with other information, so I'm not really slamming them for anything but their markup. And it's a free country with a free market economy. Caveat emptor.

WoodenJefferson · November 7, 2006 6:49AM

<<many of us made our first purchases from Littleton, and paid too much.>>

Oh the horror! Someone here on the boards has a phobia in reguards to Littleton...

MadMarty · November 7, 2006 6:53AM

Maybe Kiefer graded them!!!

Cladiator · November 7, 2006 6:53AM

<< Maybe Kiefer graded them!!! >>

Yeah now there's a value adding factor!

aprillougheed · November 7, 2006 7:00AM

<< . How did you arrive at the PCGS message board? What kind of Google search did you do to find this place? >>

I did a lot of searching to find this forum. I put in many variations on the product name - for example - "2006-W PCGS PR70 DCAM SILVER EAGLE". Felt lucky that I found you. If I can find the exact search code - I'll post it.

I do remember the seller(HSN) mentioning sky high prices from ebay - but I was so confused by all the attributes of coins. When I started this last week - I'd never even heard of a First Strike or a Cameo!

Not to mention that fact that those hosts talk a mile a minute.

Followup Question ... if I buy from the Mint (here: https://catalog.usmint.gov/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10001&storeId=10001&productId=13812&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=12738 ) am I'm taking my chances on the quality and certifications?

Guess I need to do some more research and find a heirarchy of what determines values - is it the company doing the certification, the cameo, the "PR69 or PR70" rating etc. I'm hoping there is at least some value to the fact that it's the first time for a Reverse Proof.

Fastinating stuff and these do look like really beautiful coins.

Again, many thanks, April

Cladiator · November 7, 2006 7:02AM

If you buy the raw coins from the mint you are not garaunteed a certain grade. I'm unaware of any Eagle that has graded lower than a 68 though from 2006. So from the mint you're going to be in the 68-70 range if submitted to either PCGS or NGC.

Edited to add: If I were in the market for one of these I'd sooner buy a PCGS MS68 than I would an ICG MS70.

WoodenJefferson · November 7, 2006 7:11AM

<<Guess I need to do some more research and find a heirarchy of what determines values - is it the company doing the certification, the cameo, the "PR69 or PR70" rating etc. I'm hoping there is at least some value to the fact that it's the first time for a Reverse Proof.>>

The coins you bought in the plastic holders (IGC Independent Grading Company ) is what is refered to a TPG or "Third Party Grader" and has nothing to do with HSN, they are independent graders and are not associated with HSN.

They probably have a contract so to speak with HSN to batch grade submissions from HSN (volume wise) and that is part of the deal.

The US Mint will sell you "raw" coins, not graded, just encapsulated to protect the coin.

It is then up to you to find a reliable "top teir" grading company to certify you coins as "genuine and with a numerical grade such as PR (proof) MS (mint state) 69-70 or what ever.

Others will probably expound on this matter...hopefully, in the mean time, keep on learning.

edit for sp:

Graphix · November 7, 2006 7:14AM

Just curious...

I'm sure this is a big fat NO...but if you had coins from one TPG like these designated 1st day of issue (or whatever they are calling it) and you sent them into another TPG would they cross with the same designation (like First Strike)?

aprillougheed · November 7, 2006 7:21AM

Excellent information from WoodenJefferson and Cladiator.

I think I'm beginning to get the idea.

For other newbies - I found this web site with some good FAQ, links and publications. http://www.telesphere.com/faq.html

Thanks, April

Graphix · November 7, 2006 7:49AM

link

SkyMan · November 7, 2006 7:53AM

When the people on these boards talk about 1st tier and 2nd tier (and 3rd world) third party grading services (TPGs), basically there are two services you can trust (e.g. these are the 1st tier graders): the Numismatic Guarantee Corp. (NGC) and the Professional Coin Grading Service (PCGS). PCGS tends to be a little tougher on their grading than NGC does, so they often cost a little more than NGC. The next step down would be ANACS and ICG, and then they really go down from there.

Now that you've found this place, I STRONGLY recommend that if you are thinking of purchasing a coin you create a new thread on the board and ask about the coin you are thinking of purchasing, at least for your first few purchases. While there are certainly jerks on this board most members are nice and know their coin series and would be happy to help a newbie along the learning curve. Be aware though, if you are going to be buying coins, most of us learned our knowledge by making mistakes and losing money (at least at the beginning), so don't get too upset by making mistakes along the way.

Finally, there is a very old saying in the coin collecting community, "Buy the book before the coin". Aside from the modern products of the mint which you can buy at their website, if you like the looks of a given series of coin, let's say Walking Liberty half dollars, buy a book about the coins. The book will give you ideas of what to look for. A good all around author to do an Amazon/Google/etc. search on his works would be Q. David Bowers as he has a mass of books on coins.

Good Luck and Have Fun!!!

Pentimento · November 7, 2006 7:54AM

So once someone has the raw coins (ungraded), they submit them to a grading company. As you would expect, the people here often favor PCGS over other grading companies. Usually there is logic behind this preference; if you crack the ICG MS-70 coin out of its holder and send it to PCGS, the coin might get, say a grade of PCGS MS-68. Over time enough people talk about these experiences and opinions are formed about which grading companies are the most conservative.

This should be important to folks for one reason-- when we pass these coins on to our kids or sell them at auction in 2038, ALL these grading companies might be out of business. No one knows. These grades are really nothing more than a helpful boost when our own eyes can't quite do the trick. When we buy a coin over the internet (or TV in this case) a top-tier grade is an indication of the quality of the coin inside the plastic.

What Comparable Value - HSN Purchase

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