Are Coins To Expensive ?

STEWARTBLAYNUMIS · October 28, 2006 1:42AM

Compared to the cost of a new car ?

Or a House ?

Stewart

clw54 · October 28, 2006 1:43AM

Yes, it's absurd. I can see it for the true rarities, but commonplace stuff is ridiculously high as well.

Cladiator · October 28, 2006 1:43AM

Considering some coins cost more than cars or houses I'd say yes.

ABC123 · October 28, 2006 1:44AM

Everything is Relative---A. Einstein

roadrunner · October 28, 2006 2:05AM

No. It's just a result of rampant liquidity injected into our economy starting with LBJ, and then topped off with a fiat currency. The flight to hard assets (homes, PM's, coins, art, etc) is a product of our times.
During the entire 19th century the value of things was essentially stable. Your purchasing power at 1900 was the same or greater than it was in 1800. Can't say that about 2000.

You could say that many coins are still too cheap. There is no limit to the number of cars out there. You can order exactly what you want and buy it on time. Coin prices will probably escalate further, and then will continue to be "too expensive" right up until the point where they really are expensive.

Right now I'd take the extra coins before I took on a second house or additional new cars. One will help to preserve wealth while the others will lose it.

roadrunner

Shamika · October 28, 2006 2:07AM

Yes, I'd say coins are too expensive.

scher · October 28, 2006 2:08AM

Supply and demand..I would say they are correct all of the time.
Bruce Scher

orie · October 28, 2006 2:16AM

Ask me next year.

Leiana · October 28, 2006 2:20AM

To me, the price of coins is more comparable to the price of videogames or a dvd.

And that choice is often easy to make.

-Amanda

ColonialCoinUnion · October 28, 2006 2:48AM

<< Are Coins Too Expensive ? >>

When compared to houses and cars and the cost of a college education you can certainly make that argument, though compared to fine art and rare wine coins seems cheap.

tradedollarnut · October 28, 2006 3:10AM

They're too expensive when I'm buying .... and too cheap when I'm selling!

etexmike · October 28, 2006 3:15AM

<< Are Coins Too Expensive ? >>

Just the ones that I want.

-------------

etexmike

garsmith · October 28, 2006 3:21AM

<<They're too expensive when I'm buying .... and too cheap when I'm selling!

>>

agentjim007 · October 28, 2006 3:22AM

I thought I would try an ancient coin for fun. Got this for 9 bucks and is 1700 years old. How cool is that?

robertpr · October 28, 2006 3:23AM

<< No. It's just a result of rampant liquidity injected into our economy starting with LBJ, and then topped off with a fiat currency. The flight to hard assets (homes, PM's, coins, art, etc) is a product of our times.
During the entire 19th century the value of things was essentially stable. Your purchasing power at 1900 was the same or greater than it was in 1800. Can't say that about 2000.

You could say that many coins are still too cheap. There is no limit to the number of cars out there. You can order exactly what you want and buy it on time. Coin prices will probably escalate further, and then will continue to be "too expensive" right up until the point where they really are expensive.

Right now I'd take the extra coins before I took on a second house or additional new cars. One will help to preserve wealth while the others will lose it.

roadrunner >>

That's an interesting post, and while normally I wouldn't give two nods to what is said by a ROADRUNNER (heh) I will say that the fact that coins are hard assets does put some desirability into them (as opposed to consumables such as video games and dvd's, which lose value rapidly). Being that coins tend to rise in value, or at least fluxuate in value making them tradeable, also tends to cause their prices to rise over time. Are they too expensive? As others have pointed out the other collectible areas such as wine, art, etc. make coins look downright cheap. I don't think the comparison to cars, houses, and college tuitions are accurate because those are necessities, rather than luxuries. My opinion is that coins have historically been cheap and some of that is being made up for now that the base of collectors is larger.

Whitby · October 28, 2006 3:34AM

IMO, most coins are not too expensive. CAVEAT: Depending on what you collect.

IMO, slabbing has not helped, however, you can still collect and find great things if you look. Hence the pleasure of collecting.

In pocket change, I have found a CC dollar, clipped and blank plachets, seated liberty dimes and oh yeah, a 3 cent piece. It is amazing what you can get. Exonumia, is still approachable (coal scrip), BUT thanks to the tried and true rating system revisions and utter lack of knowledge dissemination, its starting to become less and less of a fun thing to do. Slabbing has also started to intrude on what was a great great hobby. IMO

lkenefic · October 28, 2006 3:47AM

I think there are still bargains to be had, but it all depends upon your definition of a "bargain". I think the market for rainbow-toned Morgans is out of hand and nice no-problems early copper is getting that way but with any market, there will be fluctuations both positive and negative. I hope to be buying in the down-side and [ultimately] selling in the up-side but like most pure collectors, I'm in this as a hobby and not as an investment. With that being said, coin collecting [unlike most other hobbies] , is an endeavor of liquid assets and even pure collectors must realize this.

Leo

MrEureka · October 28, 2006 3:52AM

My car is a bargain compared to my coins. My second car, if I bought one, would be expensive because it has little incremental value to me. A third car would be insanely expensive.

pharmer · October 28, 2006 4:19AM

<< Supply and demand..I would say they are correct all of the time.
Bruce Scher >>

Well said. It's true. Finis. End of discussion. Move along

dizzyfoxx · October 28, 2006 4:43AM

<< They're too expensive when I'm buying .... and too cheap when I'm selling!

>>

Standard procedure.

lloydmincy · October 28, 2006 4:54AM

I don't know, Lord Master. I have never bought a new car, nor have I ever bought a new coin...

TwoSides2aCoin · October 28, 2006 4:54AM

Too expensive to use in vending machines, that's for sure

When the mint charges me forty cents for a business strike statehood quarter, plus shipping. I think they are too expensive for spending and too beat up for grading.

Baley · October 28, 2006 5:08AM

One can question supply/demand functions in a marketplace, or one can understand them (and that the dynamics can change

)

RichieURich · October 28, 2006 5:50AM

<< 

<< Are Coins Too Expensive ? >>

When compared to houses and cars and the cost of a college education you can certainly make that argument, though compared to fine art and rare wine coins seems cheap. >>

I agree with Dave Wnuck on this one. There was a recent news story about someone damaging his own painting he was ready to sell for $130 million. That amount would buy a big bunch of rare coins.

WoodenJefferson · October 28, 2006 5:58AM

I posted these prices awhile back...I'd be inclined to think that we have exceeded supply and demand prices and are now into the *Twilight Zone*

Blue Book of United States Coins 21st Edition, 1964 by R.S. Yeoman

Morgan Dollars-Uncirculated

1878CC $3.25
1879CC $45.00
1880CC $10.00
1889CC $150.00
1892-S $90.00
1893-S $500.00
1895 proof $1100.00
1921 P/D/S unc $1.00

Peace Dollars-Unc

1921 $10.00
1928 $25.00
1934-S $80.00

topstuf · October 28, 2006 6:15AM

I'd say yes. The "value" doesn't seem to be there. It may return, but I don't feel it yet. A few years ago, I loaded up thinking that they were "too" cheap. They were. Most are sold now.

I'm looking at two early golds right now and just can't or won't pull the trigger. They seem "stretched" for their rarity.

Coins will come out of the woodwork when the recession hits. (Guess I should say "when it's publicized after the election."

Not rarities, but "widgets." And the widgets affect the rarities on a sliding scale up. It turns from "the best you can afford" to only "the best." No others need apply.

RedTiger · October 28, 2006 6:15AM

<< I posted these prices awhile back...I'd be inclined to think that we have exceeded supply and demand prices and are now into the *Twilight Zone*

Blue Book of United States Coins 21st Edition, 1964 by R.S. Yeoman

Morgan Dollars-Uncirculated

1878CC $3.25
1879CC $45.00
1880CC $10.00
1889CC $150.00
1892-S $90.00
1893-S $500.00
1895 proof $1100.00
1921 P/D/S unc $1.00

Peace Dollars-Unc

1921 $10.00
1928 $25.00
1934-S $80.00 >>

Interesting, but try some 1964 auto prices, or real estate, or stocks, or any number of other items. Or try some circulated semi-key Lincolns and Mercs. Also that term Unc could mean AU, polished, whizzed, or even fake coins. In any case, Blue Book is not a price guide that anyone uses for coins except dealers looking for a rip.

Some figures from the 1960s off the top of my head, a friend bought a brand new 1966 sports car. I think he paid $3000 new. Today a similar model would be $35k to $40k or so. His vintage restored car is insured for $50k. Real estate, some homes that sold for less than $25,000 in 1964 are now half a million or one million dollar homes. As for stocks as there are many 100 baggers and 1000 baggers in that time frame, if a person wants to look for winners as you did with the coins.

09sVDB · October 28, 2006 6:46AM

It's all relative, but I would say yes. Coins are to be bought( as a collector) with disposable income only where cars and houses are a necesity.

ARCO · October 28, 2006 6:56AM

Your asking a relative question. For me in my relative world, YES, many coins are too expensive to validate buying based on my comparative value system of worth. For others, that may not be the case. Prices are dictated by supply and demand, so with rising prices, it is evident that the demand is there. Even though I make an extremely healthy income, I do not like the thought of spending over about $1,000 on any coin. Over about $1,000.00, the joy of owning the coin is outweighed by the guilt and worry that my money might be better utilized elsewhere.

Tyler

granpagraf · October 28, 2006 7:01AM

Yes, coins are expensive however I think they are a great investment for the future. I own a house and a car!
Like My Dad (God Rest His Soul), used to tell My Mother, If You keep my coin collection, You will never have to worry about not having any money! I believe He was right on the nose there!

WoodenJefferson · October 28, 2006 7:02AM

<< 

<< I posted these prices awhile back...I'd be inclined to think that we have exceeded supply and demand prices and are now into the *Twilight Zone*

~Also that term Unc. means exactly what it means, there is a definition of that word (uncirculated) in the beginning of the 1964 Blue Book, the listing does not pertain to any other condition except that definition~

I use this because I have the actual blue book, a piece of history.

In any case, Blue Book is not a price guide that anyone uses for coins except dealers looking for a rip~

That's fine...at least I was quoting accurate Blue Book prices of the times.

1895 Proof $1100.00 price guide, sheesh, general for 1964

that's a 3,180% gain in just AU grade at today prices...did I do my math right?

today, same 1895 proof, in dollars.

AU-32000 60-35000 62-38000 63-42000 64-48500 65- 55000 66-64000 67-77000

bidask · October 28, 2006 7:15AM

<< I'd say yes. The "value" doesn't seem to be there. It may return, but I don't feel it yet. A few years ago, I loaded up thinking that they were "too" cheap. They were. Most are sold now.

I'm looking at two early golds right now and just can't or won't pull the trigger. They seem "stretched" for their rarity.

Coins will come out of the woodwork when the recession hits. (Guess I should say "when it's publicized after the election."

Not rarities, but "widgets." And the widgets affect the rarities on a sliding scale up. It turns from "the best you can afford" to only "the best." No others need apply. >>

Ahh...an investor/collector!!

rec78 · October 28, 2006 7:42AM

Some are-- such as the 1916 SL quarter - While others are not. However most collectors do not collect coins by if they are too expensive or not--They just want the coin. Whatever the market will bear -is the philosphy of most dealers--They can always lower the price later if the coin does not sell now.

morgannut2 · October 28, 2006 8:17AM

The cost of living in 1800 verses1900 was indeed almost unchanged---and yes you can'tsay that about 2000.

I agree with all thesepoints on the debasement of our money except this one dumb arguement.

IN 1900-1917 hundreds of thousands died from "swine flue" and as did millions of others becuse there were no effectiv antibiotics until 1938.

People drank gallons of wine/beer because the water was no good, and the milk wasn't much better- without pasterization.

The streets were piled in horse dung and peoples waste, for lack of sewer systems, Homes and the kids inside

burned alive in fires caused by candles. Actually the Rolls Royce-Bentleys of the 1910's were beter than todays junk (an exception)--The point of coarse is

you can't compare the 1900 cost of living, without also comparing the 2006 quality of life, and ease of death of loved ones in 1900 or 1800.

roadrunner · October 28, 2006 8:54AM

That small fraction sets the market value for ALL of these generic coins. Just because many people own them or have them does not mean they would pay $150 at this point to own them if they did not. In that sense, all of the generic stuff is WAY overvalued in my opinion. Truly rare coins are different but still have some problems.

The same "logic" if applied to houses, used cars, art, .... anything, would result in a collapse of prices. Imagine if every house came on the market next week because the populace decided to rent, do you think the average value of them would stay at around $200-300K?
What if every Picasso came on the market as well? Or every Rembrandt? Or every 1804 silver dollar? Or every proof 19th century gold coin? Current prices would not last very long.

The same situation for the MS65 Morgan. Not all will hit the market tomorrow nor could you get even a fraction of them to show up if you offered to pay 30% more for them next week. You'd get more than you could buy, but probably not even 1% of them. The market does not depend on the large fraction of people who do not want things but merely the small percentage that does. At $150, there are tens of thousands of collectors who want that Morgan. There are billions of people who could care less.

roadrunner

silverpop · October 28, 2006 9:00AM

Depends on where you get your coins from

If you buy off e-bay,pcgs,and other coin selling sites then yes coins are pricey and also if you go for high grade coins those will be very pricey

But if you don't buy coins off any of those sites and stick with local dealers like i do then coins are pretty cheap

As i said just depends on where you buy your coins from

bidask · October 28, 2006 9:08AM

I think technically ( versus market acceptable) graded classic coins with originally surfaces are stll inexpensive. But I am skating to another area of the market!

topstuf · October 28, 2006 9:23AM

<< Ahh...an investor/collector!! >>

Yup, but ya got the order transposed.

jacktheknife · October 28, 2006 10:03AM

Yes. I was shopping for a new Mercedes yesterday and kept on thinking of the purchase in terms of Lincoln cents!!! I'd look at one car and think "Man, this is the same as an 09-SVDB in 67RD"!!!

Jack

Fletcher · October 28, 2006 10:56AM

It depends on what you are buying. If you buy rarities, buy the best and buy intelligently, you will never have to worry about losing your a$$ (barring a Mad Max doomsday scenario). However, collecting by these rules generally requires one to be willing to pay top dollar for the truly PQ pieces. There are too many collectors who are simply looking for the cheapest coin for the grade ... and, it is they who need to be concerned about the inevitable market fluctuations.

I apply this philosophy to buying real estate as well. Is real estate too expensive? It depends on what you are buying. If you buy rarities, buy the best and buy intelligently, you will never have to worry about losing your a$$. I bought a new house last year at the absolute top of the market and paid top dollar for it. However, it is a true rarity ... waterfront on the San Francisco Bay ... and, regardless of what the rest of the market does, I will not likely lose money on it.

Art is the same, education does not apply as it is not a commodity ... yet!

bhartman35 · October 28, 2006 11:00AM

I'm probably too new to speak authoritatively about the hobby, but looking at some of the other ways people spend their money (cars, boats, artwork) nice coins are probably a relatively cheap hobby, right?

bidask · October 28, 2006 11:01AM

<< roadrunner, I knew someone would bring up your argument and I think the difference lies in this. If you were to cash everyone out at their theoretically value on houses, or stocks, and even to some extent artwork, I do believe that in such an event, most of the value would maintain in a theoreticaly "everything is on sale" auction where everyone comes to buy with the money they received for selling their houses or stocks, and possibly artwork. I might be wrong, but I just do not believe that about generic coins. If you cashed every coin collector/investor etc. out on their market value of their rare/common/modern/classic coins today, I don't believe that even 50% would come back into it in a free for all auction.

Part of the reason for that is, as far as rare coins go, they would be to hard to locate again. Remember, many collections were assembled over years.

DMWJR · October 28, 2006 11:09AM

<< Yes. I was shopping for a new Mercedes yesterday and kept on thinking of the purchase in terms of Lincoln cents!!! I'd look at one car and think "Man, this is the same as an 09-SVDB in 67RD"!!!

Jack >>

I wish I had bought a coin instead of the last Mercedes I bought. Five years later, the cost of driving it was unbelievable-- depreciation is awful. I won't make that mistake again.

mozeppa · October 28, 2006 11:21AM

i think its gonna get worse (or better ...depends on which end of the sale you're on).

due to the internet...more talked about coins are proved to really exist...and are available ....for a price.

more collectors are coming into the mainstream by demanding and buying ...well just about anything!....(tastes vary)

the economy is fairly good...more people/collectors are earning more money that ever before in history....gotta do something with that money!

buy coins!

topstuf · October 28, 2006 11:32AM

I was shopping for a new Rolls Royce the other day. But all I could think of was how it would cost the same as a decent DMPL 1893s dollar and I couldn't park it at my Manhattan penthouse except in the basement garage and I'd rather spend it on my yacht. In Monaco. With Cher.

bidask · October 28, 2006 12:01PM

<< It depends on what you are buying. If you buy rarities, buy the best and buy intelligently, you will never have to worry about losing your a$$ (barring a Mad Max doomsday scenario). However, collecting by these rules generally requires one to be willing to pay top dollar for the truly PQ pieces. There are too many collectors who are simply looking for the cheapest coin for the grade ... and, it is they who need to be concerned about the inevitable market fluctuations.

I apply this philosophy to buying real estate as well. Is real estate too expensive? It depends on what you are buying. If you buy rarities, buy the best and buy intelligently, you will never have to worry about losing your a$$. I bought a new house last year at the absolute top of the market and paid top dollar for it. However, it is a true rarity ... waterfront on the San Francisco Bay ... and, regardless of what the rest of the market does, I will not likely lose money on it.

Art is the same, education does not apply as it is not a commodity ... yet! >>

I agree!

lloydmincy · October 28, 2006 5:13PM

I was shopping for jacktheknife's Mercedes AND a limited edition Ferrari Enzo AND a Ferrari F50 AND a Lambourgini and the Rolls Royce topstuf wanted AND the yacht that topstuf wants to lease from me AND the monthly rent for Cher AND the 30-person staff for the yacht and then I realized...

...I'm holding out for Pogue's 1822 Half Eagle.

D · October 28, 2006 5:54PM

All the car analogies/jokes bring to mind when I bought my classic car and realized I could've bought a key date coin I wanted in XF with the same money, having enough left over to buy an economical ride

.

-Daniel

FullStrike · October 28, 2006 6:03PM

Only if you have fewer dollars than sense. If you have more dollars than sense, then trading $1000's for a few cents might make perfect sense to you.

And Coin Dealers everywhere will love you.

which word to use? - to, too, two

Are Coins Too Expensive ?

not - Are Coins To Expensive ?

sonoranmonsoon · October 28, 2006 10:02PM

Only the ones I need are too expensive.

beckwb · October 30, 2006 3:30PM

Are Coins To Expensive ?

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