First Strike ...... Nonsense???
bumanchu
Posts: 1,383 ✭✭✭
First of all let me apologize if this has been addressed in preivous threads as I intend for us to discuss it.
1. The Reverse proof $50 AGE is limited to a mintage of 10,000.(wouldn't/shouldn't every one minted be eligible for First Strike designation regardless of when and how it is sent in for grading?)
2. How many multiples of 10,000 could be sent in for other bullion coins under the very same guidelines?( limited to first 30 days of issue).
3. The mint does't even know which coins are First Strikes so how can anyone else?(see link to USMint.gov website under consumer awareness link and click on Hot Items, and scroll to middle of web page--it is all there.)link
4. A lot of people would like to have the designation and will not be able to get it under the current conditions.(even if it is foolish, it adds perceived value to the coin to some people.)
5. and to cut this short. If there ever was a justifiable use of the designation, it would be on the reverse proof and on every one as far as I am concerned.
Your thoughts....
1. The Reverse proof $50 AGE is limited to a mintage of 10,000.(wouldn't/shouldn't every one minted be eligible for First Strike designation regardless of when and how it is sent in for grading?)
2. How many multiples of 10,000 could be sent in for other bullion coins under the very same guidelines?( limited to first 30 days of issue).
3. The mint does't even know which coins are First Strikes so how can anyone else?(see link to USMint.gov website under consumer awareness link and click on Hot Items, and scroll to middle of web page--it is all there.)link
4. A lot of people would like to have the designation and will not be able to get it under the current conditions.(even if it is foolish, it adds perceived value to the coin to some people.)
5. and to cut this short. If there ever was a justifiable use of the designation, it would be on the reverse proof and on every one as far as I am concerned.
Your thoughts....
And I ain't lying this time.
0
Comments
<< <i>Your thoughts.... >>
Just make sure you don't use the "F-word" (and not the one on George Carlin's list of seven). Otherwise it's been nice knowing you!
I'm tired of discussing "First Strike."
My intention is not to be inflammatory, even though some will probably perceive it to be.
Maybe I should just say, as the market matures for this type of item, the market will decide what it wishes.
No need to beat a dead horse!
Over and out.
use the "search" feature and type in the word "First Strike"...there are plenty of threads to keep you reading for DAYS on this topic. That is, IF they have not mysteriously disappeared
As for me, I'm tired of talking about it AND hearing about it.
I agree with you essentially across the board, except I think only the first coin off a die should be first strike.
So why have I sent my coins in for FS designation? Because of one of your points. It adds to the perceived value. In this case, perception creates reality. I believe the FS designation will be well worth my while while when it comes time to sell.
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<< <i>First Strike is just a label, nothing more. It does not mean what most numismatists would think of upon hearing it. That has been acknowledged. It is deceptive in that respect but is defined and understood hopefully by the consumers of that product. Some folks also might find a coin labeled "Good" (as in G-4) being anything but good in their book, however correct the label/grade is. Semantics and technical correctness don't always run on parallel paths. >>
Just an observation....when the gold 1st strike 2006 Proof Buffalos came out and soared in price... it got many poor comments about modern crap..it is b.s. etc...............
When the 20th anniv 3pc gold set came out... this board was flooded with questions ..how to get 1st strike etc, how to submit..with nary a comment about modern crap............
When the 20th anniv 2006 3pc silver set strikes GOLD ,,,in money value increases ... the same criticizng surfaces .
Could the criticisms come from people on the sidelines..missed the boat ?
"The silver is mine and the gold is mine,' declares the LORD GOD Almighty."
of it first. It is an intelligent way to insure super scarcity
create a collector demand and increase company revenues.
Who gets hurt, ......NO ONE......Is it meeting with consumer
acceptence.......YES.........Will there be negative comments
if the sun rises tomorrow.........PROBABLY.
Camelot
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>The "First Strike" designation should only be appropriated to coins with 70 as the grade. Most likely, these coins were the true "First Strikes"
>>
Roger, that
To me that makes a lot more sense.
But then, isn't that redundant?
And maybe F/S really means "I got mine and got it graded before you did"
Oh, well........
<< <i>
<< <i>The "First Strike" designation should only be appropriated to coins with 70 as the grade. Most likely, these coins were the true "First Strikes"
>>
Roger, that
To me that makes a lot more sense.
But then, isn't that redundant?
And maybe F/S really means "I got mine and got it graded before you did"
Oh, well........ >>
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Then why is the first strike 1965 Washington Quarter a MS67 at best? If the President of the United States and the Mint were happy---then
who cares if it's a MS70 or MS63-- it's still the proven "First Strike"
<< <i>----
Then why is the first strike 1965 Washington Quarter a MS67 at best? If the President of the United States and the Mint were happy---then
who cares if it's a MS70 or MS63-- it's still the proven "First Strike" >>
Exactly where is the "First Strike" proven in either instance??
makes sense today. I just do the best I can as the
big parade passes by.
Camelot
And maybe F/S really means "I got mine and got it graded before you did"
Nope. I had regular proof eagles months before the recent Frist Strikes designations were purchased.
<< <i>And maybe F/S really means "I got mine and got it graded before you did"
Nope. I had regular proof eagles months before the recent Frist Strikes designations were purchased. >>
Point taken.
Amend the above to say except for the Regular Proofs
<< <i>Your thoughts.... >>
Deception is the first word that comes to mind....Mike
<< <i>
<< <i>First Strike is just a label, nothing more. It does not mean what most numismatists would think of upon hearing it. That has been acknowledged. It is deceptive in that respect but is defined and understood hopefully by the consumers of that product. Some folks also might find a coin labeled "Good" (as in G-4) being anything but good in their book, however correct the label/grade is. Semantics and technical correctness don't always run on parallel paths. >>
Just an observation....when the gold 1st strike 2006 Proof Buffalos came out and soared in price... it got many poor comments about modern crap..it is b.s. etc...............
When the 20th anniv 3pc gold set came out... this board was flooded with questions ..how to get 1st strike etc, how to submit..with nary a comment about modern crap............
When the 20th anniv 2006 3pc silver set strikes GOLD ,,,in money value increases ... the same criticizng surfaces .
Could the criticisms come from people on the sidelines..missed the boat ? >>
Not from me it isn't. I call a spade a spade and don't miss boats I have no intention whatsoever of boarding. AFAIC if enough people want to put a premium on such a label, they can knock themselves out and do it. Though there may be a few here and there, I don't know of people who have been around this hobby for decades convinced these have any serious long term potential. I could be convinced that there is a case for the 10K limited production rev proofs based on its numbers but not the first strikes of any issue. In the end, a coin must be overwhelmingly judged and valued on its own merits and not rely on a holder. Goes for these, GSA dollars, .....
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<< <i>
<< <i>----
Then why is the first strike 1965 Washington Quarter a MS67 at best? If the President of the United States and the Mint were happy---then
who cares if it's a MS70 or MS63-- it's still the proven "First Strike" >>
Exactly where is the "First Strike" proven in either instance?? >>
--This one isn't "proven" , just documented by historians, and of coarse not very important as historic coin go. The evidence of "a real First Strike" is :
In a (hand)The actual coin is stapled in plastic cover ans stapled as shown on an old photograph. The letter is typed but a genuine signed written communication from LBJ, verified by the Library of Congress The President states he is giving a congressman friend "the FIRST (my italics) result of your new coinage legislation"(the Coinage Act of 1965--making bimetalic coins). While the Houses of the Congress constitutionlly decide what coins my be minted, how composed, when, and where mints are etc., etc.--- The Constitution is generally interpreted to state that precise dates of striking--and things like informal holidays (that control dates of work), are under the powers of the President. If he wishs--and usually does--, he may sub-deligate these decisions to the Mint Director or others. BUT---In this case the President did not deligate, perhaps because the Congressman was a very powerfull labor leader in New Jersey (especially with the US Auto workers) as well as other labor organizations in two key "swing states"-- of coarse it helped that many workers at the Philly Mint in fact lived in Camden New Jersey, not Pennsylvania.
Of coarse the President may just have been lying when writing his friend about the coin. It wouldn't be the first time!!.
<< <i>2. How many multiples of 10,000 could be sent in for other bullion coins under the very same guidelines?( limited to first 30 days of issue). >>
Quite a few. Believe it or not, one operator, working one press at 30 coins per minute, working one shift per day, could turn out the entire 250,000 coins for the reverse proof silver eagle in 17 days. If you have two presses or run two shifts per day you can produce them in 9 days. If the press only runs 15 coins per minute then it takes 34 days. The point is that even for a quarter million coin mintage, the entire mintage can be accomplished within the 30 day first strike period. So potentially the entire mintage could be "first Strike"
<< <i>Just an observation....when the gold 1st strike 2006 Proof Buffalos came out and soared in price... it got many poor comments about modern crap..it is b.s. etc...............
When the 20th anniv 3pc gold set came out... this board was flooded with questions ..how to get 1st strike etc, how to submit..with nary a comment about modern crap............ >>
I think you missed them, there were still plenty of criticisms.
<< <i>When the 20th anniv 2006 3pc silver set strikes GOLD ,,,in money value increases ... the same criticizng surfaces .
Could the criticisms come from people on the sidelines..missed the boat ? >>
No the criticisms were there all along. The reason for all the questions about how to get the FS designation was simply profit motivation. I may feel that it is a worthless designation, but if I have a bunch of what I consider foolish people wanting to pay me four or five hundred percent extra profit if I get it designated First Strike, I'll do it, take the money and run with it. Now I won't tell them I think it is a good deal, and if I'm asked what my opinion about them is I'll give it. And I won't buy them back at a premium, and I'll tell them that too. If they still want it, I'll take their money.
<< <i>
<< <i>2. How many multiples of 10,000 could be sent in for other bullion coins under the very same guidelines?( limited to first 30 days of issue). >>
[q}Quite a few. Believe it or not, one operator, working one press at 30 coins per minute, working one shift per day, could turn out the entire 250,000 coins for the reverse proof silver eagle in 17 days. If you have two presses or run two shifts per day you can produce them in 9 days. If the press only runs 15 coins per minute then it takes 34 days. The point is that even for a quarter million coin mintage, the entire mintage can be accomplished within the 30 day first strike period. So potentially the entire mintage could be "first Strike"{/q]
My point exactly, and I am with you regarding the profit motive.
My gripe, if I have one, because I am really not all that steamed up about it, is the artificial 30 day time limit, which IMHO is arbitrary at best.
<< <i>The real problem is that a very common coin term was given a new definition for marketing purposes. >>
Perfect-TRUE explanation.