ANACS MS62....PCGS "Cleaned" question.

jmj3esq · October 26, 2006 1:24AM

I recently purchased a nice Isabella Commem slabbed by ANACS as a MS62. It is pictured below. I cracked it out and sent it to PCGS so I could get it into my registry set. It came back body bagged as "Cleaned". I can see no signs of cleaning as no tell tale hairlines are visibile. What do I do now? Do I have recourse against ANACS? I know it is risky cracking out a coin, but I should be able to rely on a well respected third party graded to do their job correctly. This is my first crackout blunder. I wish I had the coin back in the ANACS slab because it would abviosly be easier to sell than a raw coin. If I need to talk to someone at ANACS, who do I talk to? Any help would be appreciated.

guitarwes · October 26, 2006 1:25AM

your coin has a little red x all over it.

Leiana · October 26, 2006 1:26AM

I don't know, but I like that Gettysburg in your sig line.

I hope it works out for you!

Image works for me!

-Amanda

PerryHall · October 26, 2006 1:37AM

If you don't think its been cleaned, try resubmitting it. In the future, if you want a PCGS coin, buy one already slabbed by PCGS and save yourself a lot of grief.

DrWho · October 26, 2006 1:39AM

and what, pray tell, did you expect for a 5 second look at the coin. which BTW looks like a beaut. however, 5 seconds is all it got. glance, cleaned, BB, next!

jmj3esq · October 26, 2006 1:40AM

In the future, if you want a PCGS coin, buy one already slabbed by PCGS and save yourself a lot of grief.

I try to do that most of the time. But in my never ending quest to find a bargain I went for this one. The coin looks real nice for the grade.

MikeInFL · October 26, 2006 1:44AM

<< I recently purchased a nice Isabella Commem slabbed by ANACS as a MS62. It is pictured below. I cracked it out and sent it to PCGS so I could get it into my registry set. It came back body bagged as "Cleaned". I can see no signs of cleaning as no tell tale hairlines are visibile. What do I do now? Do I have recourse against ANACS? I know it is risky cracking out a coin, but I should be able to rely on a well respected third party graded to do their job correctly. This is my first crackout blunder. I wish I had the coin back in the ANACS slab because it would abviosly be easier to sell than a raw coin. If I need to talk to someone at ANACS, who do I talk to? Any help would be appreciated.

>>

You really have no recourse with ANACS as soon as you cracked the slab. You are out of luck there, methinks.

What you essentially have is a difference of opinion about the market acceptability of the coin in question. If I were in your shoes, I would have someone who is very knowledgable about PCGS grading take look at the coin and provide a second (fourth) opinion on the coin. If the expert thinks the coin will get into PCGS plastic, then send it back in. If the expert thinks it will not get into PCGS plastic, either try to get it into NGC plastic or back into an ANACS slab and get rid of it. That's what I'd do.

Hope this helps...Mike

Wolf359 · October 26, 2006 1:45AM

Do I have recourse against ANACS? I know it is risky cracking out a coin, but I should be able to rely on a well respected third party graded to do their job correctly.

You have no recourse against ANACS, and I'm not sure why you would think you do. Each company
has their own standards, and it's not unheard of for ANACS/NGC coins to come back cleaned from
PCGS. While ANACS may put a dipped coin (no hairlines) into a holder, PCGS might bag it. It's all opinion, and I'm sure there are coins that PCGS has holdered that ANACS has net graded for being scratched.

dorkkarl · October 26, 2006 1:57AM

my question is, why do you care? it's still the same coin. can't you just appreciate it for what it is???

K S

ABC123 · October 26, 2006 2:03AM

Just say, No !

PerryHall · October 26, 2006 2:12AM

<< Do I have recourse against ANACS? >>

Why recourse against ANACS? Are you so sure ANACS is wrong and PCGS is right?

coinkat · October 26, 2006 2:22AM

the coin looks dipped and ANACS considered that in opining that it was a 62. PCGS likely believed that the surfaces/lustre was impaired enough it warranted a BB. Without seeing in hand, it is hard to comment further.

jmj3esq · October 26, 2006 2:39AM

my question is, why do you care? it's still the same coin. can't you just appreciate it for what it is???

Because im building a registry set here at PCGS and I like unifomity in my slabs. It also cost me around $500. For that kind of money I would like to be able to get it into a slab of my liking.

Why recourse against ANACS? Are you so sure ANACS is wrong and PCGS is right?

No, I am not sure that ANACS is wrong, but they are the ones who certified the grade previosly. I actually think the coin has not been cleaned. It has great luster and shows no hairlines. I have seen cleaned coins before and this is not one of them. I know I took the risk when cracking out, but im just looking for the best way, if any, to resolve the problem. I may just send it to ANACS and see if they slab it again, then try to cross it or just get rid of the problem all together.

LeeBone · October 26, 2006 2:42AM

I have some of the formentioned coins. A original coin (at least it appears to me) in another holder, that differs in opinion (thay say altered surfaces,questionable color,etc.) when sent to PCGS. So I said to myself "self, lets resubmit these coins to PCGS as I think that the chances may be better the second time around as I have now paid twice for submission fees." Well, my coins again came back as not being crossed. Now I am pondering the thought of cracking these bad boys and trying for raw grading. Think I`ll have any different luck?

BillJones · October 26, 2006 2:44AM

You picture does not show up on my browser. Therefore I can’t comment on whether or not PCGS treated you fairly. At any rate after you cracked the coin out of the ANACS holder, you have no recourse with them.

The safest thing to do is send the coin to PCGS in ANACS holder and ask them to cross it. If they won’t cross it they send it back to you in the ANACS holder, and you are out just for the postage. But as it’s been written here, crossing coins in another firm’s holder often ends in disappointment.

The bottom line is the safest way to buy a registry coin is to buy in the holder that the registry accepts in the beginning. The only reason not to do that is if you can purchase a coin in another holder or a raw coin for a lot less money and then send it in for graded by your desired service. If the raw coin or other grading service coin is not a lot cheaper, it’s not worth risk to buy it.

Frankly I would not waste any more money on this coin. An Isabella quarter in MS-62 is only worth (or costs) $100 to $150 less than a PCGS certified MS-63. The spread between the grades is not that much. I’d buy a PCGS MS-63 if it were my set. That way you have a better established grade and the coin in the holder you want.

Edited to say your picture of the reverse just came up on my screen. I'm sorry to say that I think the coin has been cleaned or polished and therefore not a candidate for a PCGS holder. Sorry.

dorkkarl · October 26, 2006 3:18AM

<< my question is, why do you care? it's still the same coin. can't you just appreciate it for what it is???

Because im building a registry set here at PCGS and I like unifomity in my slabs. It also cost me around $500. For that kind of money I would like to be able to get it into a slab of my liking. >>

sorry, but if you want a pcgs registry, buy pcgs coin.

K S

PerryHall · October 26, 2006 3:20AM

<< If they won’t cross it they send it back to you in the ANACS holder, and you are out just for the postage. >>

............and the grading fee.

Doogy · October 26, 2006 3:33AM

<< Do I have recourse against ANACS? I know it is risky cracking out a coin, but I should be able to rely on a well respected third party graded to do their job correctly.

You have no recourse against ANACS, and I'm not sure why you would think you do. Each company
has their own standards, and it's not unheard of for ANACS/NGC coins to come back cleaned from
PCGS. While ANACS may put a dipped coin (no hairlines) into a holder, PCGS might bag it. It's all opinion, and I'm sure there are coins that PCGS has holdered that ANACS has net graded for being scratched. >>

yeah, like PCGS doesn't slab dipped coins! Cracking out coins for re-submission has its inherent risks. I've also had a couple darkside PCGS coins that i've cracked out to submit to NGC that came back as "cleaned". All of the grading services let some slip through

vega1 · October 26, 2006 3:40AM

LeeBone, just as an aside, if you have a question you should start your own thread. It is generally considered bad form to 'hijack' another person's thread with a question of your own not directly related to the original person's topic. You might try using the search function as well as there have been multiple topics in the past on submitting raw vs crossovers.

Now, back to the topic at hand...

Bummer, sorry you got a BB. ANACS has absolutely no responsibility to you whatsoever though. They gave their opinon, and they are under no obligation to reconcile a differing one if you decide to ignore it. Also, just a note, just because a coin has no hairlines does not necessarily mean it has not been cleaned.

IMO you should send it in to ANACS again if you want to sell it. Its relatively inexpensive in economy, and the coin has a good record there already. You could try NGC as well bu that may be more expensive(?).

sweetwilliet · October 26, 2006 3:42AM

I agree with the above, how do you know PCGS is "right" and ANACS is "wrong"? There are countless stories of coins that were bagged the first time around that find their way, eventually, into a PCGS holder. You have no recourse against ANACS (or PCGS) for that matter. I have had coins bagged by PCGS that I didn't think had problems, but it is their opinion and that is what you are paying for. If you really want it in a PCGS holder, I might try one more time with another submission at some point.

Baley · October 26, 2006 3:51AM

Looks like a pretty coin. You've tilted it and rotated it in the bright light and see the hairlines, or no?

I agree with others who've said, when you cracked it, you made it raw and any "grading opinion" is rendered moot.

but if it's so close to "acceptable" that anacs slabbed it problem free and just netted it down a point or two for some very light hairlines, they probably would again, especially if you sent it back with the former label. Of course, you'd have to pay again.

Another approach would be to put it into an album or kraft envelope for a few years. Looks like you've got some rim toning started, it could end up looking really nice.

if the registry thing is your priority, buy one already pcgs holdered.

Jcarney · October 26, 2006 4:04AM

<< Edited to say your picture of the reverse just came up on my screen. I'm sorry to say that I think the coin has been cleaned or polished and therefore not a candidate for a PCGS holder. Sorry. >>

I see nothing in that picture that would lead me to believe that this coin has been cleaned let alone polished. Would you elaborate?

BillJones · October 26, 2006 4:09AM

Isabella quarters do not come with a bright, proof-like surface like that seen in the picture unless the example is question is one of the very scarce Proof pieces. The Isabella quarter was made with a frosty Mint State surface that does not “shine” as that piece does. This coin has had its original surface stripped leaving the bright smooth surface that you see there. Such surfaces are not typical of an Isabella quarter and certainly not typical of a piece that grades MS-62.

You learn this stuff by looking at a lot of coins. I’ve bought and sold many Isabella quarters in grades ranging from AU to MS-64. I currently have three PCGS graded pieces in my inventory. No Isabella that I’ve seen had surfaces like this naturally.

Jcarney · October 26, 2006 4:13AM

Bill, thanks for the quick reply.

LeeBone · October 26, 2006 10:27AM

vega1,
When I asked if I would have better luck it was merely a "Statement". I should not have put a ? at the end...SORRY!

jdimmick · October 26, 2006 10:36AM

First as others have mentioned, you have no recourse with ANACS once you cracked the coin out. I have no doubt based on the pictures that your coin has been cleaned. PCGS felt that the cleaning warranted a no-grade and not market acceptable in there holder.

Anacs apparently felt the coin was market acceptable, however the grading services standards somewhat differ on whats holderable and what is not. I honestly believe your chances of getting it into a PCGS slab are less than 10%. If you need one for the registry then you need to purchase one already holdered by them. As far as this coin, you may need to re-ANACS it, but then again depending on when it was holdered by them, you may have trouble getting it back inot thier holder as well.

jim

BigAl · October 26, 2006 10:37AM

happens all the time.

unfortunately your recourse is to either suck it up, or resend with better setup coins.

fcloud · October 26, 2006 12:55PM

Have you looked at any public submissions lately? It seems everytime I look through them I see a whole bunch of BBs. Sent it through about five more times and it will get slabbed. I sent a Mercury dime in about three times once to get it into a holder. It's a game -- you win some -- you lose some.

lkenefic · October 26, 2006 1:20PM

Sometimes I long for the days of pre-TPG...

robertpr · October 26, 2006 1:24PM

<< my question is, why do you care? it's still the same coin. can't you just appreciate it for what it is???

K S >>

Maybe, just maybe, he wants to know what PCGS sees that he and ANACS did/do not in order to further educate himself and become a better grader?

derryb · October 26, 2006 4:58PM

unlike PCGS, ANACS will grade and slab a "problem" coin. They point this out on their website. They do however assign a "problem code" to their barcode when there is a problem with the coin. Check your barcode and compare it to the codes from their website at the following link:

ANACS Linky

PerryHall · October 26, 2006 5:10PM

<< unlike PCGS, ANACS will grade and slab a "problem" coin. They point this out on their website. They do however assign a "problem code" to their barcode when there is a problem with the coin. Check your barcode and compare it to the codes from their website at the following link:

ANACS Linky >>

When ANACS slabs a problem coin they note the problem on the slab label so there should be no need to check the bar code.

.

dorkkarl · October 26, 2006 9:10PM

<< 

<< my question is, why do you care? it's still the same coin. can't you just appreciate it for what it is???

K S >>

Maybe, just maybe, he wants to know what PCGS sees that he and ANACS did/do not in order to further educate himself and become a better grader? >>

i seriously doubt it. this guy's a pla$tic collector, not a coin collector. you can tell that by the fact that what he cares about is pla$tic grades in a registry listing, not the coin itself. i'm glad he hosed himself on this ill-advised venture.

if your a pla$tic collector & know nothing about coins, then try to pull a fast 1, you deserve to have something like this blow up in your face.

K S

Outhaul · October 26, 2006 9:44PM

This is the exact reason that I cross "IN THE HOLDER" at or higher grade only. Unfortunately for you, ANACS is under no obligation to compensate you once it was removed from the holder. You'll have to re-submit, and continue until the coin grades.

jmj3esq · October 26, 2006 10:41PM

i seriously doubt it. this guy's a pla$tic collector, not a coin collector. you can tell that by the fact that what he cares about is pla$tic grades in a registry listing, not the coin itself. i'm glad he hosed himself on this ill-advised venture.

dorkkarl, you are an idiot. I simply wanted the beautiful coin in a PCGS holder for my uniform set. It didn't happen. You dont know anything about me or what and how I collect. Keep your useless comments to yourself. I simply asked what if anything others would do im my place. Nothing you have said here has added anything useful to anyone. Its people like youo that are a real turnoff to this hobby and this forum. Next time keep it to yourself.

BTW, since when was buying a beatiful coin in a ANACS slab an "ill-advised venture"? They are well respected and one of the top tier TPGs. I beg to differ that cracking out is ill-advised too. I have made many an upgrade doing exactly that. Maybe you are the one that cannot look past the plastic. Again, you are an idiot.

Thanks,

Joe

dorkkarl · October 26, 2006 11:53PM

<< dorkkarl, you are an idiot. I simply wanted the beautiful coin in a PCGS holder for my uniform set. It didn't happen. You dont know anything about me or what and how I collect. Keep your useless comments to yourself. I simply asked what if anything others would do im my place. Nothing you have said here has added anything useful to anyone. Its people like youo that are a real turnoff to this hobby and this forum. Next time keep it to yourself.

BTW, since when was buying a beatiful coin in a ANACS slab an "ill-advised venture"? They are well respected and one of the top tier TPGs. I beg to differ that cracking out is ill-advised too. I have made many an upgrade doing exactly that. Maybe you are the one that cannot look past the plastic. Again, you are an idiot. >>

says you. then, you go buy anacs pla$tic for your pcg$ regi$try that is supposedly in "uniform holders". who's really the idiot?

you want a pcg$ regi$try? THEN BUY PCG$ PLA$TIC!!!

& stop pretending to know anything about coins, your only fooling yourself

K S

jmj3esq · October 27, 2006 12:03AM

You are a genious. Keep telling yourself that. Have you ever, in your 10,676 posts, contributed anything useful to this forum? If you have, I have not seen it. Thanks again.

Wolf359 · October 27, 2006 1:19AM

<< 

<< Do I have recourse against ANACS? I know it is risky cracking out a coin, but I should be able to rely on a well respected third party graded to do their job correctly.

You have no recourse against ANACS, and I'm not sure why you would think you do. Each company
has their own standards, and it's not unheard of for ANACS/NGC coins to come back cleaned from
PCGS. While ANACS may put a dipped coin (no hairlines) into a holder, PCGS might bag it. It's all opinion, and I'm sure there are coins that PCGS has holdered that ANACS has net graded for being scratched. >>

yeah, like PCGS doesn't slab dipped coins! Cracking out coins for re-submission has its inherent risks. I've also had a couple darkside PCGS coins that i've cracked out to submit to NGC that came back as "cleaned". All of the grading services let some slip through >>

Of course they slab dipped coins. I didn't say otherwise. It's a matter of degree and their level of tolerance is less than ANACS.

morgannut2 · October 27, 2006 1:21AM

It's a very pretty coin, and almost loks MS64. I wonder if ANACS "net graded" it because of a few minor hailines that PCGs would not accept? I'd just send it back to ANACS an hope it gets back in a holder. Then trade it for the PCGS you wanted in the first place.

jmj3esq · October 27, 2006 1:29AM

It's a very pretty coin, and almost loks MS64. I wonder if ANACS "net graded" it because of a few minor hailines that PCGs would not accept? I'd just send it back to ANACS an hope it gets back in a holder. Then trade it for the PCGS you wanted in the first place.

I am going to do exactly that. It is a real nice looking coin. I dont have a picture of the obverse yet. It is still on its way back from PCGS. Hopefully I get it back in an ANACS slab. I might keep it. I really like the coin.

airplanenut · October 27, 2006 1:53AM

I happen to agree with Bill Jones' assessment. The coin looks unnaturally white. Because ANACS holdered it at a grade that looks low assuming the coin were original, my guess is they net graded it without "officially" net grading it. PCGS probably was on the other side of the net grade, and the coin got bagged.

I also agree with DorkKarl--if you want a PCGS coin, buy a PCGS coin. I also think this thread's got a lot of "happy talk." I mean no offense, but the coin's unoriginal, and in my opinion not very attractive. If it's the type of coin you like, collect it--but I think you're prone to run into this problem again if you do. Yes, the services have their problems, and that's exactly why YOU have to know what you're buying, regardless of what the holder says. If you really like the coin, then it shouldn't matter that PCGS bagged it.

dorkkarl · October 29, 2006 10:33PM

<< You are a genious. Keep telling yourself that. Have you ever, in your 10,676 posts, contributed anything useful to this forum? If you have, I have not seen it. Thanks again. >>

useful to you? probably not, since you wouldn't recognize whether advice was useful or not.

good luck, your gonna need it.

K S

ANACS MS62....PCGS "Cleaned" question.

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ANACS MS62....PCGS &quot;Cleaned&quot; question.

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ANACS MS62....PCGS "Cleaned" question.