my coin got trashed

CheckersFred · October 24, 2006 5:30AM

some time ago i went to long beach and bought an ms-63 lafayette (pcgs) from one of the well known commem specialists. i was pleased with it so i was kind of showing it around. i dont know a lot of people there so i was kind of showing it around sort of at random. one dealer asked to see it. as it turned out he had an ms61 pcgs for sale in his inventory. he went on an on about how his coin clearly had better strike and lustre and cooler toning and all that. it made me feel ripped off. i guess that was his intent.

i was reminded of this when i read mark's post about whether or not it's tacky to comment on people's ebay coins on this msg board.

19Lyds · October 24, 2006 5:32AM

He was just trying to make himself feel better. Your happiness with it is all that matters.

airplanenut · October 24, 2006 5:35AM

<< <i>He was just trying to make himself feel better. Your happiness with it is all that matters. >>

And probably trying to get you to do a near trade from a 63 to a 61. I'd venture to say he's a jerk.

Barndog · October 24, 2006 5:35AM

why didn't the AH resubmit it, as it was an obvious lock upgrade

66RB · October 24, 2006 5:44AM

CheckersFred....I know how you feel. I showed the following coin around after I bought it, as I was very happy to finally get this coin.
One dealer said with great authority and rather loudly, "Do not, under ANY circumstances, crack this coin out, this grade is a gift."
Another remarked, "Why did you buy this? I would never buy something like this" or some such BS.

Yes, the coin was cleaned at some point in the past, just like most of the raw coins these guys are stocking.
Ha!Ha! I didn't let it get me down at all, and I love this coin!

Leiana · October 24, 2006 5:49AM

I have had similar experiences, one time I showed a fellow coin club member my favorite buffalo (see sigline photo) and he said it was a 'nice AU.'

I'm pretty sure it's a 64.

He didn't mean it to be mean, though. So in that respect it's different.

-Amanda

ddbird · October 24, 2006 5:50AM

<< <i>CheckersFred....I know how you feel. I showed the following coin around after I bought it, as I was very happy to finally get this coin.
One dealer said with great authority and rather loudly, "Do not, under ANY circumstances, crack this coin out, this grade is a gift."
Another remarked, "Why did you buy this? I would never buy something like this" or some such BS.

Yes, the coin was cleaned at some point in the past, just like most of the raw coins these guys are stocking.
Ha!Ha! I didn't let it get me down at all, and I love this coin!

>>

Checkers he was just being a jerk. Keep it if it makes you happy.

Love the toning on that coin! Id buy it!

Same thing with my piece. I love it, and was so excited to get it. Showing it around..most said it was nice. But one said Recolored POS and barely market acceptable. They then said to get rid of it as quick as possible.

I kept it..and have been offered more than what I paid for it. But I still like it. Even if it was recolored, its a beautiful coin!

coinguy1 · October 24, 2006 5:53AM

Fred, here is a bit of "feedback" to do as you wish with.....

If you show coins to people, you should expect comments, whether positive or negative. Depending upon the individuals involved, some of the remarks will be informed, while others might not be. Some of the viewers will be unbiased, but others might have an agenda, whether they are even aware of it or not.

My question to you is - when you looked at the MS61 and heard the dealer's comments, did they seem on point/fair in comparing the two coins? Perhaps his coin was under-graded, perhaps yours was over-graded, maybe each of those was the case and perhaps neither was the case. Learn what you can when you have the opportunity and enjoy your coins.

09sVDB · October 24, 2006 5:57AM

It happens all the time. Some times i'm tempted to buy a low priced raw coin at a certian grade(just for fun) and then show it around to see how far it dowmgrades when it's yours and not theirs. It's the same as buying a used car!

Longacre · October 24, 2006 6:00AM

I showed an early New Orleans quarter eagle that I bought to a local yokel coin dealer (I purchased the coin from a world-renouned authority on Southern Gold). The local dealer went on and on about how ugly the coin was, how it was all grimy, how he would never sell a coin that looked like that, etc., etc. I just found it comical.

stman · October 24, 2006 6:03AM

Very normal for Dealers to "POO POO" coins that didn't come from them. The truth and the reality, sometimes it's not worth your time and aggravation to show a coin to a Dealer, that came from another Dealer. The reality is with many dealers...... if they can't buy it, or sell it they really don't even care to see your coin. So if you show it to them, expect the POO POO response. Now some dealers do enjoy to see a nice coin. And will comment a fair opinion. For the others.... IMO, and what I have seen and gone through....... if they can't do any business with it, they really don't care about your coin.

bhartman35 · October 24, 2006 6:09AM

Putting down a coin someone just bought (especially if they're beaming with pride at their accomplishment) is just plain low. I have a friend who does something similar: I'll buy something, I'll say how happy I am with it and how I'm glad I found it, and just to piss on my parade, he'll say either that I paid more than I should've or that I didn't need what I bought at all.

Don't let jerks get you down!

Cladiator · October 24, 2006 6:22AM

<< <i>Very normal for Dealers to "POO POO" coins that didn't come from them. The truth and the reality, sometimes it's not worth your time and aggravation to show a coin to a Dealer, that came from another Dealer. The reality is with many dealers...... if they can't buy it, or sell it they really don't even care to see your coin. So if you show it to them, expect the POO POO response. Now some dealers do enjoy to see a nice coin. And will comment a fair opinion. For the others.... IMO, and what I have seen and gone through....... if they can't do any business with it, they really don't care about your coin. >>

USCGCraig · October 24, 2006 6:41AM

When I worked at a shop part-time, the dealer, his staff and I would always do our best to remark positively on a coin that someone was just showing us. Chances wre, that if we were positive, there might be a sale in the near future. We would also end it with a phrase of ot to the effect of "If I was to buy this piece, I would be in the $### neighborhood". If they wanted to sell it right thenh and there, we made good on our offer. We got more coins and collections this way because we wouldn't put peoples coins down. We would render an honest opinion if they asked re: cleaning, coin being genuine etc.

I've been to shows where every coin you have gets put down. Don't need to do business with them. Heck, dealers do it to each other as well.

BillJones · October 24, 2006 7:14AM

The average Lafayette Dollar is either darkly toned and unattractive or it has been cleaned because it was dark and unattractive and now is white and unattractive. Most MS-61 coins are sliders, and/or they will almost certainly have a bothersome mark that reduces their eye appeal. The only ways that that dealer’s coin was better than yours was if his coin was massively undergraded (very unlikely) or you coin was overgraded, which is more likely, but far from a “lock.”

One thing that collectors should remember that dealers are most happy when they are making sales. Showing a dealer a coin that you just bought at a show, especially a piece that cost over $1,000, will only make the dealer think to himself, “Darn! I wish I had made that sale!” As a result you might end up with the reaction you got. After all, the dealer’s reaction is only natural.

When you buy a coin at a show, don’t expect the dealers to be cheering your purchases on unless they sold the item to you. You should also not expect to get an objective opinion from many dealers when you ask their opinion about something you are thinking of buying from someone else. AND definitely don’t expect to get an objective opinion from a dealer if he is within earshot of the prospective seller. Dealers usually try to get along with each other most of the time, and trashing someone else’s coin in front of them is not a way to keep on being good friends.

Cladiator · October 24, 2006 7:21AM

BillJones has some good points.

I believe this is why I greatly prefer working with dealers that are infact collectors as well. These dealer/collectors seem to be able to appreciate coins more for the same reasons us collectors do. Many folks that are only dealers, in my opinion, only see dollar signs and that drives their comments. One dealer/collector that comes to mind right off the top of my head is Dick Osburn. I can go to his table and peruse a dozen of his coins without buying anything, then show him a seated half dime I bought from someone else earlier in the day and get a true collectors opinion on the coin from him.

My advice, for what it's worth, find the dealers you like and work well with and stick with them. The rest of them can go pound salt

53BKid · October 24, 2006 7:39AM

It's just that type of dealer that gives this hobby/profession a bad name.

I think we all have to realize that there are some egos out there that didn't develop beyond the third grade. I've known barnyard animals with better personalities!

Graphix · October 24, 2006 8:14AM

Hi all,

I just wanted to point out that as a person entering into the coin collecting arena this forum is GREAT! As a newbie (I mean just hatched) this place seems to be a wealth of knowledge. My first ever purchase was a downer...I bought a 1913 $5 Indian. Don't know why it just grabbed my attention. The fact that the design was sunken (if you can call it that) into the coin was different. Anyways, after I bought it I read about fake gold coins so of to the coin shop I went. I told him I had just started collecting and blah blah blah. After he eyeballed it under the glass he looked up and said its nice, I would say around Very Fine closer to Extra Fine. I asked if he thought $160 was a fair purchase on it and he looked at it again and after much length I might add he said ahhhh actually its in Good condition....I don't think this is actually a my coin got trashed (it might be considered that) but I thought right away as I walked out...Great! I am entering a hobby that is going to make me feel like I am an idiot and overpaid anytime I purchase a coin. I wondered if the price I paid made him second guess his own initial look. Guess I will never know but it wasn't the greatest first experience. Please someone tell me recognizing the grade at least to some close proximity gets better with time

michael · October 24, 2006 8:17AM

remember my friend that successful dealers have an acid eye when buying or apprasinig coins you show them bought from other coin sellers

and a tender loving eye when they have coins they are trying to sell

Tonelover · October 24, 2006 8:37AM

Putting down a coin someone just bought (especially if they're beaming with pride at their accomplishment) is just plain low.

If you just bought an artificially toned, overgraded or problem coin but simply do not have enough experience to be able to tell for yourself, you can only benefit from getting an honest opinion from someone who can.

If someone who has a better eye gives you happy talk instead of their true thoughts they are doing you a disservice. The truth may hurt but if you can gain some sort of education out of the process you're better off in the long run.

I'm talking about honest, straightforward opinions from a knowledgable grader and not anything which might have to do with head games that certain dealers might want to play.

relicsncoins · October 24, 2006 8:54AM

I would be curious to know what that dealer told the seller of that 61 when he bought it..........."Well it's technically uncirculated, but it's really not much of a collectable grade. I know the book says it's worth X amount of dollars, but that is a grade I will have a hard time selling, so I'm willing to give you Y amount of dollars for it. "

JJ

fishcooker · October 24, 2006 9:47AM

If you're going to care about what others you don't know think, be prepared.

roadrunner · October 24, 2006 11:17AM

Many, many dealers out there are very poor at technical grading and moreso at altered surfaces and AT. Take it with a grain of salt. It just means you can buy more cheaply from them when they get something equivalent in the store or on the bourse.

roadrunner

bhartman35 · October 24, 2006 11:40AM

<< <i>Putting down a coin someone just bought (especially if they're beaming with pride at their accomplishment) is just plain low.

If you just bought an artificially toned, overgraded or problem coin but simply do not have enough experience to be able to tell for yourself, you can only benefit from getting an honest opinion from someone who can.

If someone who has a better eye gives you happy talk instead of their true thoughts they are doing you a disservice. The truth may hurt but if you can gain some sort of education out of the process you're better off in the long run.

I'm talking about honest, straightforward opinions from a knowledgable grader and not anything which might have to do with head games that certain dealers might want to play. >>

I don't deny that it's important to get honest opinions about your purchases. But there's certainly a way to do it that doesn't make the person learning feel like crap/an idiot. I think of it like someone showing you a new shirt or a new pair of pants. If someone shows you a new shirt, and you turn around and say, "It's as ugly as an elephant's ass and you paid too much for it.", how's that gonna make the person feel? And to then turn around and compare it to something you have is even worse. There's a very big difference between someone showing you a coin to get it appraised and someone showing you a coin to share in the thrill of their purchase. I don't have children, but I'll take a wild guess and say that if those of you who do have children showed them to someone, you'd be at least mildly offended if the person started insulting their appearance.

Commenting on a coin someone is thinking of purchasing, or commenting on a coin someone asks for an opinion on, are both entirely different things. That's a situation that calls for a critical assessment -- and a conservative one, at that. But to act that way to someone who's basically just saying, "Hey, look at this cool coin I just got!" just doesn't cut it with me. Something about that just lacks empathy.

LincolnCentMan · October 24, 2006 11:59AM

I wouldnt put any stock in what the dealer said. At the very least, he was rude to dis your coin under those circumstances.

David

my coin got trashed

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