Current greysheet prices vs market value

Millertime · October 5, 2006 12:20AM

If you were pay greysheet prices is there any series that the current market values are actually higher than the greysheet or is the greysheet fairly accurate? How about any series that the greysheet is way overpriced?

Millertime

Barndog · October 5, 2006 12:26AM

good question, I'll take a shot at a small segment: bust quarters. The Greysheet people must be smoking dope when they list the values for this series. No-problem bust quarters at Greysheet prices are simply not available. The 1822 and 1824 are multiples higher than Greysheet prices in the real world.

BillJones · October 5, 2006 12:27AM

You can't buy properly graded early coins (1793 - 1807) at Gray Sheet prices. This is especially true early copper, even early copper into the 1830s.

As for overpriced, I can't sell low grade type coins for the prices they list. Those coins are not worth that much. Also rolls of stuff, like Indian cents are WAY over priced on the Gray Sheet. If I can't sell the coins at the shows for those prices to collectors, how many of those coins do you think I could sell to dealers?

rhedden · October 5, 2006 12:54AM

Rare date circ. Seated is underpriced, as always. Proof Barbers and Seateds may be underpriced at some grade levels. High grade, common date Seated type coins are overpriced in some instances. There are a few examples of Seated half dimes in MS-65 where Bid is above the asking prices that high-end retail dealers get (???). I second the comments about early copper, especially better variety large cents. Those coins have jumped in price so steeply that there is practically nothing "nice" available for sale, except at ridiculous retail levels.

The Greysheet is great for pricing "commodity" items like BU Morgans.

BrianKuszmar · October 5, 2006 1:00AM

Wow, there is s a question that should be examined. With the technology, trading networks and just plain amazing availability of huge amounts of information Imo the Sheets are way behind the times. To answer your questions, the Sheets are merely indications, if you were to rely on them for everyday business trading use you would either be leaving a good percentage of your profits on the table on many deals or just not sell your stuff and then wonder why your being offered a big discounts. I believe it’s become more of a Kelly Blue Book reference more than an accurate trading price.

It is and has been a fact for years there are many items in the sheets that I could purchase for bids less 20% and more and I would still be buried by a long shot, then I have items that even If I were to pay multiples over the price of the bid price I would be still getting a deal.

The sheets are often looked at like the gospel, Imo it is not, only a rough indication on many issues. Those that use it as the gospel, Beware.

Much Regards
Brian Kuszmar
Second Generation Coin Dealer
219 Commercial Blvd
Lbts, Fla.
954-493-8811

Millertime · October 5, 2006 1:15AM

One of the local dealers I go to uses gresheet + a percentage for all pricing and I have always wondered if this is common practice and depending on what I buy if I'm getting raped or a rip. They carry all denominations and usually have a wide range of dates and conditions. Their grading appears to be fair and they will net grade damaged coins.

Millertime

BrianKuszmar · October 5, 2006 1:27AM

<< <i>One of the local dealers I go to uses gresheet + a percentage for all pricing and I have always wondered if this is common practice and depending on what I buy if I'm getting raped or a rip. They carry all denominations and usually have a wide range of dates and conditions. Their grading appears to be fair and they will net grade damaged coins.

Millertime >>

First you would have to know which coins sell for less and which ones for more, then you have the factor of some dealers do use it as the gospel and have an active customer base that also uses it as such so its not really an issue. Then, depending on the amount of money one spends would have allot to do with paying over or under. i/e If one were to pay 20% over bid for a $5 item even if it trades for 10% back would net a business person a $1.50 profit on a $5 sale- Nominal profit if you consider it takes as much time to do a $5 sale as it does a $5000 dollar deal many times.
On larger deals profit margins will be much lower, I’m please as punch to make 10% on a 5g deal, but it is usually less.

Much regards to all
Brian Kuszmar
Second Generation Coin Dealer
Call me anytime for info!
954-493-8811

BigBuffaloGuy · October 5, 2006 1:29AM

The greysheet is a wholesale (dealer to dealer) value guide. Some companies can get multiple times greysheet prices (Littleton, American Heritage Mint) when they sell, and other companies, like Arizona Coin (a major wholesale buyer), pay other dealers anywhere from bid plus 5% to 20% back of bid. How close to bid or above bid dealers get for their coins depends on 1) The dealer's perception of the coin's grade and rarity, and their willingness to sell 2) The buyers perception of the same, but their willingness to buy.

RichieURich · October 5, 2006 2:31AM

As has been said earlier, the Greysheet is good at determining values for coins that trade often, like MS-63 Morgans. For circulated scarce and rare date Bust Quarters, Seated Quarters, Seated Dimes, Seated Half Dimes, Seated Dollars, the Greysheet is lower than market, in some cases way way lower than market. The last 1874-CC dime in Good sold at auction at over $10,000. Greysheet bid is $900.

rhedden · October 5, 2006 8:43AM

The last 1874-CC dime in Good sold at auction at over $10,000. Greysheet bid is $900.

Wow, that has to be one of the most ludicrous examples. However, there is another way to look at this. One could argue that the current market is so hot, that some collectors are paying more than 10x Bid for certain key date Seated dimes.

rays · October 5, 2006 8:50AM

Their prices listed for early date large cents are now, and have been for at least a decade, below true market value.

I don't even bother to look up prices in my graysheets anymore.

One example: 6 years ago, in 2000, I paid triple bid for a F15 PCGS no pole 1796 half cent at public auction (Heritage).
I was bidding against other dealers.

rhedden · October 5, 2006 8:57AM

Their prices listed for early date large cents are now, and have been for at least a decade, below true market value.

Large cents are going INSANE right now- prices for choice early pieces are totally out of touch with reality. I've quit collecting them and haven't bought a single one in about a year. I miss the good old days in the 1990's when I could buy decent looking F-VF 1798 cents close to their Bid price, which was something like $100....

Edited to add: I recall buying a slightly porous, but halfway decent, 1803 large cent in VF-20 at a Syracuse ONA show in 1998- for $5. I'd get $100 for it on ebay if I had it now.

cape · October 5, 2006 8:59AM

all i can say is watch for big increases in bust and seated material come november as you cant even buy anywhere close to sheet for pq material.

RichieURich · October 5, 2006 9:00AM

<< <i>Their prices listed for early date large cents are now, and have been for at least a decade, below true market value.

I don't even bother to look up prices in my graysheets anymore.

One example: 6 years ago, in 2000, I paid triple bid for a F15 PCGS no pole 1796 half cent at public auction (Heritage).
I was bidding against other dealers. >>

You got a good buy on that 1796 no pole. I was thinking of using the 1796 half cents (with pole and no pole) as examples but the 74-CC dime was even further off on a percentage basis. There are quite a few rare date coins worth buying, i.e. profitable to buy, at double greysheet.

CarsonCityGold · October 5, 2006 9:05AM

<< <i>The last 1874-CC dime in Good sold at auction at over $10,000. Greysheet bid is $900. >>

A 74 CC dime in PCGS AG3 sold at auction last month for $8050. If you try to buy better date, natural looking Carson City Coins - gold or silver (excluding Morgans) at greysheet you will have a VERY small collection.

roadrunner · October 5, 2006 10:11AM

In the last year or so I was able to buy the following slabbed PCGS/NGC coins from dealers at CDN bid, so they are out there though you have to forage:

1795 half VG10+
1803 half dime AU58+
1797 half dime VG-8

I would have been able to get more but on some coins the CDN has been readjusted. Just look that early draped bust dimes in MS60 from 1800, 1801, 1802, 1803. The 1800 was listed for $6000 in UNC less than a year ago, now listed at $28,000! The others have jumped accordingly as well.

Would agree that much of the early draped bust as well as scarcer seated coins are not usually available at anything near CDN pricing.
The pricing on the key S mint quarters from 1866 to 1872 is laughable for what you have to pay to get them.

roadrunner

RichieURich · October 5, 2006 10:19AM

<< <i>The pricing on the key S mint quarters from 1866 to 1872 is laughable for what you have to pay to get them.

roadrunner >>

Especially for the 1870-S!!!

Current greysheet prices vs market value

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