<< <i>He should keep quiet about them, and also beat up the old lady and daughter after the close, to see if he can shake any more numismatic items out of them. >>
In regards to finding money on the ground or a 100 bill in a used book, finders keepers. (most ive ever found is $50 bill at the park.)
At the movies I found someones wallet (with ID, credit cards) and $600 cash. I made sure the manager got the wallet and the full contents, I took the name and address of the person, called them and told them about the wallet and how much was in there when i found it/gave it to said manager. They thanked me. end of story.
<< <i>He should keep quiet about them, and also beat up the old lady and daughter after the close, to see if he can shake any more numismatic items out of them. >>
>>
He should also charge them rent for the storage of the coins!
<< <i>He should keep quiet about them, and also beat up the old lady and daughter after the close, to see if he can shake any more numismatic items out of them. >>
>>
He should also charge them rent for the storage of the coins! >>
Indeed, an invoice for property storage should be issued. That is, unless, the house was sold 'as is'.
Can't believe I just read this whole thing. The woman isn't going to miss the 2k even if the coins are worth that much and your "house flipper" friend probably eats 2k in donuts a year so it isn't going to make a difference to him. Tell the woman about the coins and whatever will be, will be. Maybe tell her to donate them to a YN auction or something. This was a tough one.
If he can affford to buy a $700,000 house, I would think the coins wouldn't matter. I say tell the owner. Rightfully they are hers whether she knows about them or not. They are not his coins yet because he hasn't bought the house. If he keeps the coins I believe it is simple theft.
The property does not belong to the buyer yet. The personal property on the property belongs to the seller, including the coins, even if the coins were placed there by a prior owner.
Steve is correct. The buyer whould tell the seller that he discovered the coins during the walk through. Not doing so would be immoral and unethical. The seller may not have an interest in the coins and may be willing to sell them to you at melt or bid.
You have an opportunity to acquire the coins from the seller of the property. Whether you want to do the honorable thing (and sleep well at night) or try to obtain the coins without the seller of the property being informed of same is a decision for you to make. Making such a decision in the absence of any other person observing you make same will tell you alot about your character.
I would tell the daughter that I will be doing same major restoration to the house, and ask her if there is anything that her mother may have misplaced, so in the event I happen to find it I can return it to her.
JJ
Need a Barber Half with ANACS photo certificate. If you have one for sale please PM me. Current Ebay auctions
Interesting answers and very telling about some people. FYI, I would honestly be tempted to say nothing but, as has happened in other things in the past, that would go by very quickly and I would tell the seller they are there. If they wanted to keep them, I would offer to look at them and make recommendations. If they didn't want them, I would offer to buy them.
People that suggest keeping them or not telling the seller.....
It happened to me. I bought a house from an old couple, nice old folks, a few cards short of a deck though. All contents included.
I was cleaning, and there was a lot of cleaning to do. I went thru dressers and removed the tacky old paper lining, and lo and behold an envelope with 2000 cashola in nice crisp $100 bills.
Tough moral dilemma, I deposited it into my checking acct, and felt real bad. I saw him a week later and wrote him a check for the $2000 and felt much better about myself.
After that he told me his wife was seriously losing her mind over the last few years, and hid money all over. He said before he sold it to me, he found near $20 thousand stashed all over. DOH!!!!!!!!!!
I looked alot more after that, but never found anymore money, but I still pride myself on giving it back to that rich old s.o.b.
So if your buying a 700 k house and hope to make 250k by cleaning and renovating, give the old bag her marbles, I mean her coins back.
<< <i>He should remove them from thier hiding place and present them to the homeowner. Any other action, or inaction, would be completely unethical, IMO. >>
I agree completely.
<rant> IMHO this has nothing to do with religion as some have tried to indicate, it has nothing to law, it has nothing to do with how valuable the coins may or may not be. This is simply about right and wrong and anyone with an ounce more good in them than greed knows the answer without even asking the question. He should tell them what he found, now. If you want them as a collector offer to buy them.
Anyone who would do otherwise in this situation should be ashamed of themselves. </rant>
Now if the title of this thread was "is it ok to cherrypick a rare coin from a dealer" we know how everybody would answer. The cherrypicker is a specialist with inside knowledge the dealer doesn't have. Your friend like the collector has knowledge of where to look on the coin I mean house for attributes that make it more valuable. The owner of the property owns it. The million dollar question is does your friend own it since his offer has already been accepted? Or does the daughter own it until closing takes place? All he has to do is wait 2 weeks until closing then it's his either way. From a legal site on the web. Take it for what it's worth. BOLD & Italics are mine.:
Lost and Mislaid Property Property is lost when the owner loses possession by accident, neglect, forgetfulness or any other means and had no intention of abandoning it. “Lost” property is different from property that is left intentionally behind or abandoned.
“Mislaid property” is a result of the owner’s forgetfulness—leaving sunglasses on a restaurant table, for example. The distinction between lost and mislaid property hinges on the owner’s intent. Lost property occurs because of the owner’s neglect, carelessness or inadvertence. An envelope of cash in a public parking lot is lost since there would be no other reason for it to be there except for the owner’s carelessness.
The finder of lost property is entitled to possession against everyone except the original owner. Unless provided otherwise by statute, the finder of mislaid property never acquires rights to possession; it is the owner of the premises where the property is mislaid who is entitled to possession against all but the true owner.So is the 93 year old woman still around to claim it? Did she hide the coins or did the daughter?
Ownership of Lost Property The original owner never loses ownership of the lost property. However, the general rule is that the finder of lost property can keep it unless the rightful owner demands it back.
To claim back the lost property, the original owner has to prove he owned it at one time. A vehicle’s ownership is easily proved through serial numbers. Ownership of lost money, however, is difficult to prove. The original owner generally has no proof except for the circumstances under which the cash was lost and found. For example, a jogger that drops money and watches it blow into a neighbor’s yard can prove he owns the money by the circumstances of the “loss.”
I found some antique coins hidden between joists in an old building during remodeling. The owner of the building claims the coins belong to him. Is he right? Yes. Hidden property that has been purposely concealed is classified as “mislaid.” If the original owner of the mislaid property is not available to claim it, the property belongs to the owner of the premises. The coins belong to the building’s owner.So who mislaid the jar of coins-the 93 year old mother or the daughter?
SIDEBAR: Mislaid property is held by the owner of the premises (rather than the finder) where the property is found because he is the “custodian” until the property is claimed.
Change that we can believe in is that change which is 90% silver.
What if the coins were hoarded by people who lived in the house two generations before the old lady?
What if the coins had been buried in the backyard? Feel the same? Different?
When metal detecting, do the finders of a given hoard of coins make a good faith effort to surmise who might have lost/hidden them 50-100 years ago, and then go to great personal effort and expense to track down their heirs?
<< <i>Oh holier-than-thou members, do please, guide us!
What if the coins were hoarded by people who lived in the house two generations before the old lady?
What if the coins had been buried in the backyard? Feel the same? Different?
When metal detecting, do the finders of a given hoard of coins make a good faith effort to surmise who might have lost/hidden them 50-100 years ago, and then go to great personal effort and expense to track down their heirs?
Gimme a frickin' break. >>
I don't think I am holier than though (I really am not a religious person) but it is obvious I have to keep one hand on my wallet with some folks here.....
The key scenario in this one is that the house is STILL OWNED by the other people. Regardless if they put it there or not, it is theirs. Since it was found prior to possession changing hands, it should be mentioned to them. Maybe they made enough on the house that they don't care, but that should be their decision.
If someone drops a $100 bill in front of you, do you stand on it with your foot until they are out of sight then pick it up and figure it is all yours since they left it?
True story--- Yesterday I was meeting someone for a job interview. While in the store I was meeting him in I looked on the floor and saw a major heavy link men's gold bracelet. This baby was AT LEAST a solid ounce and change and stamped 18K on the huge alligator clasp. There was nobody in the aisle and nobody within 100 feet if me. I picked it up, put it in my pocket, smiled like a total SOB then about 1 minute later that invisible guy called GOD must have tapped me on the shoulder because all I could think about was the poor guy who lost this monster. Yes I called for the store manager and gave her what I found and told her to tell the owner if they ever come by to claim their bracelet to do the same someday for someone else.
Man did I feel good after that and the interview when so well I hired the candidate on the spot.
Indeed, jrocco, it does feel good to do the right thing. Still, I feel differently about your situation vs. smoeone not savvy enough to clean out their house before snagging a cool 3/4 million for it.
<< <i>Indeed, jrocco, it does feel good to do the right thing. Still, I feel differently about your situation vs. smoeone not savvy enough to clean out their house before snagging a cool 3/4 million for it. >>
Too bad that your reasoning is so shortsighted and self-centered. What makes you think it's O.K. to assume that the $750,000 realized from the real estate sale is a windfall for anyone? What do you think it would cost you personally on an annual basis to place one of your parents in a full- care nursing home? Do you really think that the 93-year old mother is moving into a penthouse suite of a 5-star hotel for her remaining life expectancy? Get real.
I found a bank deposit bag on the ground at the Renaissance festival 2 years ago. It was full of bills of different denominations wrapped in rubber bands. At least a few thousand in there. I showed it to MrsSpud and her mom and they looked at it like it was radioactive and they told me to give it to the nearest vendor booth which I did. The vendor assured us he would turn it in so that the rightful owners could claim itg. After I left I couldn't help but think that the vendor probably ended up keeping it. Don't really know though. One person who I told the story to said that the money was supposed to be a gift from god to me and that I wasted it. I thought that was a funny way to look at it. Hopefully the money made it back to the vendor who probably worked all week selling Renaissance fair trinkets and who dropped it.
That said, what if the house flipper just left the coins where they are so that some future owner of the house could find them. Would that be unethical? I'm not saying to do it, just wondering.
I would look at the coins,see if there was anything good,then offer the owners a fair deal.............now if they were found when the place was vacant,I would claim them the same as finding a coin in the ground.my own stories of finding coins in vacant buildings and walls are the same if there are no occupants they become my property I have found shaving kits,bottles,newspapers,rings,dead birds,dead rats,once I found a rats nest w/a 1/2 carat ring probly worth 500.00 I never looked for the owner how the hell do you do that! after 15-20 yrs.
<< <i>BTW coindeuce, I'm more than willing to take sensitivity lessons from such superior people as yourself. Please do let me know when they begin. >>
They begin when you get the ba//s to light the fire loser. Either stay on topic or get lost.
It's being assumed that this family put those coins there, but how is the buyer to know for sure? It's not the buyer's responsibility to inventory the house prior to his purchase.
first it is an as is sale so yes they are your coins along with any thing else on the property. The ethical thing to do is to mention the coins to the seller and offer them half she dose not know they are there and perhaps wont even care, afterall you did find them on your property. However if the escrow has not closed then give the seller the coins or offer to buy them for fair market value.
Comments
I am a collector
And things, well things
They tend to accumulate
<< <i>He should keep quiet about them, and also beat up the old lady and daughter after the close, to see if he can shake any more numismatic items out of them. >>
Self Indulgence | Holey Coins | Flickr Photostream
Should late night television hosts plagiarize the forum for material ?
After all, there are no rightful owners of comedy
There are some great answers here. From a legal standpoint, and a moral one... but when it comes to comedy, this place is the greatest.
Practice makes perfect & nobody is perfect. So, practice being nobody and be perfect !
In regards to finding money on the ground or a 100 bill in a used book, finders keepers. (most ive ever found is $50 bill at the park.)
At the movies I found someones wallet (with ID, credit cards) and $600 cash. I made sure the manager got the wallet and the full contents, I took the name and address of the person, called them and told them about the wallet and how much was in there when i found it/gave it to said manager. They thanked me. end of story.
<< <i>
<< <i>He should keep quiet about them, and also beat up the old lady and daughter after the close, to see if he can shake any more numismatic items out of them. >>
He should also charge them rent for the storage of the coins!
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>He should keep quiet about them, and also beat up the old lady and daughter after the close, to see if he can shake any more numismatic items out of them. >>
He should also charge them rent for the storage of the coins! >>
Indeed, an invoice for property storage should be issued. That is, unless, the house was sold 'as is'.
Self Indulgence | Holey Coins | Flickr Photostream
Russ, NCNE
Box of 20
Box of 20
<< <i>"I think I know what the right thing to do would be."
He does not own the house, the coins are the property of the current owner, and he should mention them to her. >>
exactly !!!
Steve is correct. The buyer whould tell the seller that he discovered the coins during the walk through. Not doing so would be immoral and unethical. The seller may not have an interest in the coins and may be willing to sell them to you at melt or bid.
You have an opportunity to acquire the coins from the seller of the property. Whether you want to do the honorable thing (and sleep well at night) or try to obtain the coins without the seller of the property being informed of same is a decision for you to make. Making such a decision in the absence of any other person observing you make same will tell you alot about your character.
JJ
FYI, I would honestly be tempted to say nothing but, as has happened in other things in the past, that would go by very quickly and I would tell the seller they are there.
If they wanted to keep them, I would offer to look at them and make recommendations. If they didn't want them, I would offer to buy them.
People that suggest keeping them or not telling the seller.....
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>Do what Jesus would do......your reward will come later, and be much more valuable.
Smash the jar of coins on the floor while turning over tables and chairs in the house? (re: Temple)
Self Indulgence | Holey Coins | Flickr Photostream
I was cleaning, and there was a lot of cleaning to do. I went thru dressers and removed the tacky old paper lining, and lo and behold an envelope with 2000 cashola in nice crisp $100 bills.
Tough moral dilemma, I deposited it into my checking acct, and felt real bad. I saw him a week later and wrote him a check for the $2000 and felt much better about myself.
After that he told me his wife was seriously losing her mind over the last few years, and hid money all over. He said before he sold it to me, he found near $20 thousand stashed all over. DOH!!!!!!!!!!
I looked alot more after that, but never found anymore money, but I still pride myself on giving it back to that rich old s.o.b.
So if your buying a 700 k house and hope to make 250k by cleaning and renovating, give the old bag her marbles, I mean her coins back.
Rob
If you found a wallet with money in it and a ID would you need to ask this question?
Be honest and you will sleep well.
Www.killermarbles.com
Www.suncitycoin.com
I gave him all the info,
HE said and I Quote....
"What would Coinguy1 do" ??
Www.killermarbles.com
Www.suncitycoin.com
karma....
<< <i>He should remove them from thier hiding place and present them to the homeowner. Any other action, or inaction, would be completely unethical, IMO. >>
I agree completely.
<rant>
IMHO this has nothing to do with religion as some have tried to indicate, it has nothing to law, it has nothing to do with how valuable the coins may or may not be. This is simply about right and wrong and anyone with an ounce more good in them than greed knows the answer without even asking the question. He should tell them what he found, now. If you want them as a collector offer to buy them.
Anyone who would do otherwise in this situation should be ashamed of themselves.
</rant>
Lost and Mislaid Property
Property is lost when the owner loses possession by accident, neglect, forgetfulness or any other means and had no intention of abandoning it. “Lost” property is different from property that is left intentionally behind or abandoned.
“Mislaid property” is a result of the owner’s forgetfulness—leaving sunglasses on a restaurant table, for example. The distinction between lost and mislaid property hinges on the owner’s intent. Lost property occurs because of the owner’s neglect, carelessness or inadvertence. An envelope of cash in a public parking lot is lost since there would be no other reason for it to be there except for the owner’s carelessness.
The finder of lost property is entitled to possession against everyone except the original owner. Unless provided otherwise by statute, the finder of mislaid property never acquires rights to possession; it is the owner of the premises where the property is mislaid who is entitled to possession against all but the true owner. So is the 93 year old woman still around to claim it? Did she hide the coins or did the daughter?
Ownership of Lost Property
The original owner never loses ownership of the lost property. However, the general rule is that the finder of lost property can keep it unless the rightful owner demands it back.
To claim back the lost property, the original owner has to prove he owned it at one time. A vehicle’s ownership is easily proved through serial numbers. Ownership of lost money, however, is difficult to prove. The original owner generally has no proof except for the circumstances under which the cash was lost and found. For example, a jogger that drops money and watches it blow into a neighbor’s yard can prove he owns the money by the circumstances of the “loss.”
I found some antique coins hidden between joists in an old building during remodeling. The owner of the building claims the coins belong to him. Is he right?
Yes. Hidden property that has been purposely concealed is classified as “mislaid.” If the original owner of the mislaid property is not available to claim it, the property belongs to the owner of the premises. The coins belong to the building’s owner. So who mislaid the jar of coins-the 93 year old mother or the daughter?
SIDEBAR: Mislaid property is held by the owner of the premises (rather than the finder) where the property is found because he is the “custodian” until the property is claimed.
Your friend should knotify the owner of the house.......
What if the coins were hoarded by people who lived in the house two generations before the old lady?
What if the coins had been buried in the backyard? Feel the same? Different?
When metal detecting, do the finders of a given hoard of coins make a good faith effort to surmise who might have lost/hidden them 50-100 years ago, and then go to great personal effort and expense to track down their heirs?
Gimme a frickin' break.
<< <i>Oh holier-than-thou members, do please, guide us!
What if the coins were hoarded by people who lived in the house two generations before the old lady?
What if the coins had been buried in the backyard? Feel the same? Different?
When metal detecting, do the finders of a given hoard of coins make a good faith effort to surmise who might have lost/hidden them 50-100 years ago, and then go to great personal effort and expense to track down their heirs?
Gimme a frickin' break. >>
I don't think I am holier than though (I really am not a religious person) but it is obvious I have to keep one hand on my wallet with some folks here.....
The key scenario in this one is that the house is STILL OWNED by the other people. Regardless if they put it there or not, it is theirs. Since it was found prior to possession changing hands, it should be mentioned to them. Maybe they made enough on the house that they don't care, but that should be their decision.
If someone drops a $100 bill in front of you, do you stand on it with your foot until they are out of sight then pick it up and figure it is all yours since they left it?
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>I wanted to double check what was the correct thing to do so I called the pastor of my church.
I gave him all the info,
HE said and I Quote....
"What would Coinguy1 do" ?? >>
Russ, NCNE
Keep them.
Yesterday I was meeting someone for a job interview. While in the store I was meeting him in I looked on the floor and saw a major heavy link men's gold bracelet. This baby was AT LEAST a solid ounce and change and stamped 18K on the huge alligator clasp. There was nobody in the aisle and nobody within 100 feet if me. I picked it up, put it in my pocket, smiled like a total SOB then about 1 minute later that invisible guy called GOD must have tapped me on the shoulder because all I could think about was the poor guy who lost this monster.
Yes I called for the store manager and gave her what I found and told her to tell the owner if they ever come by to claim their bracelet to do the same someday for someone else.
Man did I feel good after that and the interview when so well I hired the candidate on the spot.
Gotta do the right thing in life...
<< <i>Indeed, jrocco, it does feel good to do the right thing. Still, I feel differently about your situation vs. smoeone not savvy enough to clean out their house before snagging a cool 3/4 million for it. >>
Too bad that your reasoning is so shortsighted and self-centered. What makes you think it's O.K. to assume that the $750,000 realized from the real estate sale is a windfall for anyone? What do you think it would cost you personally on an annual basis to place one of your parents in a full- care nursing home? Do you really think that the 93-year old mother is moving into a penthouse suite of a 5-star hotel for her remaining life expectancy? Get real.
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.american-legacy-coins.com
That said, what if the house flipper just left the coins where they are so that some future owner of the house could find them. Would that be unethical? I'm not saying to do it, just wondering.
<< <i>BTW coindeuce, I'm more than willing to take sensitivity lessons from such superior people as yourself. Please do let me know when they begin.
They begin when you get the ba//s to light the fire loser. Either stay on topic or get lost.
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.american-legacy-coins.com
In other words, do the right thing.
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
As-is means as-is, and it cuts both ways.