Betcha that over 90% of the toned stuff out there is AT

clw54 · August 28, 2006 1:03PM

And I have smoe of it, too.

Leiana · August 28, 2006 1:05PM

This is why I don't buy toned coins. I don't feel confident enough in separating the wheat from the chaff, if that is an acceptable analogy.

-Amanda

FatMan · August 28, 2006 1:06PM

I'll take your bet.

Fairlaneman · August 28, 2006 1:07PM

Wrong Again..

..... Just Indians, Quarters and probably Lincolns. Opps maybe 2 centers also.

Dimes are 100 % NT......ROTFLMAO

Ken

TUMUSS · August 28, 2006 1:08PM

I've got one box of toned stuff....gonna sell it off soon....never to buy anymore. That's it - I'm done with it.

Blackhawk · August 28, 2006 1:11PM

90% of those with a certain look may be. There are a lot of toned coins that come in large "hoards" in which all are brightly and attractively toned. I just don't believe that this happens that often. These groups usually have no fingerprints at all, which seems strange when you consider that they had to be handled at some point. But what do I know?...When some of the high dollar coins are posted and look like Timothy Leary's dream - bright colors dashed all over, they don't seem to raise anyone's ire if they're holdered by certain TPGs.

dizzyfoxx · August 28, 2006 1:11PM

<Betcha that over 90% of the toned stuff out there is AT>

I think a more educated estimate of toned coins would be 90% NT, 5% AT, and 5% 'who the heck knows'.

Ronyahski · August 28, 2006 1:16PM

BobaFett72 · August 28, 2006 1:17PM

how about 60% legit, 40% bogus.

FatMan · August 28, 2006 1:19PM

<< <Betcha that over 90% of the toned stuff out there is AT>

I think a more educated estimate of toned coins would be 90% NT, 5% AT, and 5% 'who the heck knows'. >>

Dizzy, I would like to know the rationale of those numbers. My eyes lead me to believe there is quite a bit more AT coins out there than your educated estimate indicates. Of course I'm speaking of colorful toning, not brown and gray toned coins.

cullenbryant · August 28, 2006 1:21PM

time for culls to get some love

dragon · August 28, 2006 1:24PM

<<< Betcha that over 90% of the toned stuff out there is AT >>>

Ahhhh yes.......the fearful rants of the clueless. I just knew it would come up

Aethelred · August 28, 2006 1:24PM

I would also bet that over 90% of the white stuff out there is AW. We have to accept the fact that most coins, almost all coins have been tampered with in some way at some time in their history.

clw54 · August 28, 2006 1:24PM

<< 

<< <Betcha that over 90% of the toned stuff out there is AT>

I think a more educated estimate of toned coins would be 90% NT, 5% AT, and 5% 'who the heck knows'. >>

Dizzy, I would like to know the rationale of those numbers. My eyes lead me to believe there is quite a bit more AT coins out there than your educated estimate indicates. Of course I'm speaking of colorful toning, not brown and gray toned coins. >>

I should have been more specific. The colorful stuff one sees at shows that's listed for multiples of their white counterparts. I think more of it is AT than people are ready to accept.

dizzyfoxx · August 28, 2006 1:26PM

<< 

<< <Betcha that over 90% of the toned stuff out there is AT>

I think a more educated estimate of toned coins would be 90% NT, 5% AT, and 5% 'who the heck knows'. >>

Dizzy, I would like to know the rationale of those numbers. My eyes lead me to believe there is quite a bit more AT coins out there than your educated estimate indicates. Of course I'm speaking of colorful toning, not brown and gray toned coins. >>

Fats, I can only go by the coins I've seen in person and speculate on coins I've seen good images of, cumulatively. This is just my guess regarding my experiences. Remember, let's say on a broad scale there are 100,000 coins with toning as an example. That would make 5,000 AT and 5,000 that are possibly AT. By my calculations, that's a lot!

coinlieutenant · August 28, 2006 1:27PM

I think 90% is a bit high....

I do think that only about 1/2 of one percent is truly original though...maybe less. Those coins will be worth a premium when all this sorts its way out.

dragon · August 28, 2006 1:28PM

I have a useful and relevant stat....

Over 97% of those claiming that over 90% of the toned stuff is AT'd have nearly zero knowledge or experience in numismatics, and know even less about toning

dizzyfoxx · August 28, 2006 1:29PM

Let me clarify something here... are we talking coins in reputable slabs, or all coins slabbed and raw combined???

cladking · August 28, 2006 1:30PM

There can be no generally accepted definition for AT and NT so the statement has no meaning.

No doubt, intention has played a significant role in the toning of a high percentage of coins. This
doesn't make them bad coins and doesn't always make them AT.

pharmer · August 28, 2006 1:30PM

Mint sets too, Claw?

dizzyfoxx · August 28, 2006 1:31PM

<< I have a useful and relevant stat....

Over 97% of those claiming that over 90% of the toned stuff is AT'd have nearly zero knowledge or experience in numismatics, and know even less about toning

>>

For some strange reason...

ziggy29 · August 28, 2006 1:32PM

91.37% of all statistics are made up.

clw54 · August 28, 2006 1:33PM

Ever walk by a dealer at a show with a couple dozen Morgans with a color like ginger ale? Those are AT. People in this forum just walk by and discount them. Stuff like that is all over the place.

The last couple of months have revealed a few surprises, which the experts didn't even anticipate. It's far worse than previously imagined, and people knew it was bad before that.

clw54 · August 28, 2006 1:33PM

<< Let me clarify something here... are we talking coins in reputable slabs, or all coins slabbed and raw combined???

>>

Slabbed and raw.

clw54 · August 28, 2006 1:34PM

<< I have a useful and relevant stat....

Over 97% of those claiming that over 90% of the toned stuff is AT'd have nearly zero knowledge or experience in numismatics, and know even less about toning

>>

Collect them or sell them? I'm sure yours are all real.

dizzyfoxx · August 28, 2006 1:34PM

I may have an opinion on this, but what do I know? ...I'm just a raindrop in a lake. A natural lake, not a man-made lake of course.

dizzyfoxx · August 28, 2006 1:36PM

<< 

<< Let me clarify something here... are we talking coins in reputable slabs, or all coins slabbed and raw combined???

>>

Slabbed and raw. >>

My apologies.

My percentages are way off then if this is the case. I think in today's age, if a nicely toned coin is still raw, there's a darn good reason for it.

clw54 · August 28, 2006 1:43PM

<< 

<< 

<< Let me clarify something here... are we talking coins in reputable slabs, or all coins slabbed and raw combined???

>>

Slabbed and raw. >>

My apologies.

My percentages are way off then if this is the case. I think in today's age, if a nicely toned coin is still raw, there's a darn good reason for it.

>>

Again, I should have been more specific. It seems that every time I go to a show, there are more and more colorful coins. I figured it was pretty bad, this ATing business. But the last couple of months have really opened my eyes, and I know two of the people involved. Not well, but I've met them both and talked with them. I like them both, but I'm still disappointed.

Blue Indians, colorful Morgans in old slabs, after a while it looks as if the problem is very widespread. Many forum members besides myself are rethinking toning and what is what. What has been revealed is just a drop in the bucket.

BTW, I was originally going to say 99%, but thought that a bit extreme.

Dave99B · August 28, 2006 1:49PM

You, sir, would lose that bet....

Dave

keets · August 28, 2006 1:59PM

realistically, you're speaking of somewhere in the millions of coins, so i doubt your 90% figure is anywhere near to being close. i do, however, think that what's developing is a trend which should cause every serious collector to at least be more cautious and without a doubt to become more "Numismatist" than "Coin Collector" in the future. what's most troubling to me is the prevailing attitude that some have, it goes something like this------"it's just a hobby, collect what you like. if you don't like the way something looks, don't buy it."

we are self-policing and self-regulating. as a whole, hobbyists need to start policing the ranks to eliminate things which will hurt us all. i don't personally have the wherewithall to track this stuff down like cohodk and Hadleydog have done in the past few weeks, or the way some members do with regard to auction fraud and other stuff. we owe them our combined thanks. now, if the dealers will help and do a bit of policing in their ranks perhaps some progress can be made in changing what's getting to be all too common.

Aethelred · August 28, 2006 10:40PM

I for one did not take Claw's "90%" figure as being a literal number, but it is obvious and becoming more so all all the time that a very large number of toned coins are not natural. The problem is much worse for high grade copper coins, there are almost no Unc. Large Cents that have not been messed with in some way at some point.

CTcollector · August 28, 2006 11:37PM

<< I have a useful and relevant stat....

Over 97% of those claiming that over 90% of the toned stuff is AT'd have nearly zero knowledge or experience in numismatics, and know even less about toning

>>

You are in denial. Coin LT nailed it. Coins currently residing in TPG's that are truly original (never dipped, cleaned, color enhanced,etc..) is hovering around 1%....

dragon · August 28, 2006 11:59PM

<<< You are in denial. Coin LT nailed it. Coins currently residing in TPG's that are truly original (never dipped, cleaned, color enhanced,etc..) is hovering around 1%.... >>>

Yeah ok, and I'm sure you have personally examined millions of PCGS holdered coins and kept pinpoint records to back up this claim........right?

CTcollector · August 29, 2006 12:19AM

<< <<< You are in denial. Coin LT nailed it. Coins currently residing in TPG's that are truly original (never dipped, cleaned, color enhanced,etc..) is hovering around 1%.... >>>

Yeah ok, and I'm sure you have personally examined millions of PCGS holdered coins and kept pinpoint records to back up this claim........right? >>

You, obviously have not....

ritepath · August 29, 2006 12:21AM

I'd agree...

dragon · August 29, 2006 12:52AM

<<< You, obviously have not.... >>>

Actually, yes I have, which is why I don't make up absurd stats that I couldn't possibly back up with any hard facts.

RichieURich · August 29, 2006 2:34AM

Probably 80% or 90% of all toned coins are ugly. Of the ones with significant eye appeal, probably 50% atr NT and 50% are AT and 50% are "who knows?" (I know, the percentages add up to over 100%.)

I bought a bunch of Morgan and Peace dollars in a collection that had been stored for 40 years in an unheated basement with a lot of temperature and humidity changes. All of the coins were toned, and all were an ugly hazy gray. But the person I sold them to liked them.

ABC123 · August 29, 2006 2:44AM

Beauty is in the eye of the Holder---and so is the $$$$

rainbowroosie · August 29, 2006 2:46AM

I buy raw toned stuff all the time and do very very well -- knowledge is power!

dragon · August 29, 2006 3:00AM

<< I buy raw toned stuff all the time and do very very well -- knowledge is power!

>>

Correct! But the clueless masses would rather just stick to their pointless stats, conspiracy theories, and spreading fear and doubt to the rest of the clueless masses.

eagle7 · August 29, 2006 3:09AM

The amount of AT coins in PCGS and NGC holders is low, probably ten percent of the toned universe. However they are the most hyped on EBAY and else where. I agree with Dragon in that one must know what the real ones look like in order to detect the bad ones. But to the case at hand, it is painfully obvious that the coin in question did not gain Natural Toning in just two short weeks, even less time considering mail times. Both extremes in the argument are wrong. Those extremes are: Most all toned coins in holders or raw are AT, and the exact opposite argument is just as silly, and that one is of course: Most all coins in major plastic or raw which are toned are NT. JMHO.

SUPERCARCOINS · August 30, 2006 12:37PM

....bring it on

BigAl · August 30, 2006 1:21PM

90%?????

lloydmincy · August 30, 2006 1:49PM

Remember. Dragon is mister expert and know-it-all. His nickname should be WINNETKA WANNABE WITHOUT WHEREWITHAL. WWWW!!!

Betcha that over 90% of the toned stuff out there is AT

Comments

Leave a Comment