The doctoring of coins will never stop until we stop paying insane premiums for toned coins

RCDB · August 28, 2006 10:34AM

As another respected forum member bites the dust, it occurs to me that those of us , including myself, that have paid wild premiums for toned coins have fostered this environment we are now in. The only way it will stop is for collectors to stop paying premiums for toned coins. Without that premium, there is no reason to fool around, either with the coins or the pictures used to sell them.
My collection consists of over 90% toned coins and I've got to tell you that this is going to change, and soon. I've got to diversify a little after all this BS.

ziggy29 · August 28, 2006 10:36AM

I like toners as much as anyone, but with the current premium of 5-10x sheet for really nice ones, and the coin doctors it inevitably enables, I tend to steer clear.

Russ · August 28, 2006 10:37AM

I'm doing my part. I've never paid an insane premium for a toned coin. I've sold them for insane premiums, though.

Russ, NCNE

tsacch · August 28, 2006 10:42AM

I LOVE toners, but have only 10% of my collection in toners. I bought most when they werent going for premiums.....some others I have bought raw lately, but not for big $$$$.

Doctors suck, but they just cant duplicate real toning if you go by known standards and view the coin in hand....not yet.

elwood · August 28, 2006 10:44AM

Time to eliminate the coin doctors and go back to the old days.

Everybody dip all your coins.

ziggy29 · August 28, 2006 10:46AM

<< Everybody dip all your coins.

>>

Let's start with Dizzy's commems!

JRocco · August 28, 2006 10:51AM

<< 

<< Everybody dip all your coins.

>>

Let's start with Dizzy's commems!

>>

Boy- I can see one snake dude really disliking what is going on here--- In fact, any dealer who makes a market in selling monster toners may take a hit in the drawers over this one. Not saying they have any hand in the coins toning, just the coins multiples over sheet.

FatMan · August 28, 2006 10:53AM

Although the insane premiums paid for toned coins contribute to the profitability of doctoring, lowering the premiums will not put an end to the doctors. Doctoring is a problem with all coins, not just the toners. What will put an end to the doctoring is collector and dealer outrage and the insistence that the docs are outed and ousted along with those dealers who accept their house calls. The problem is that the current outrage is all talk and no action. I see high profile dealers talk the talk but simply go and hide when it's time to walk the walk. Until outing doctors becomes in vogue, the problem will never go away. Today a doctor was outed and I hope he is sincere when he says he is leaving the hobby. That is the appropriate penalty for the crime.

gsaguy · August 28, 2006 10:57AM

I agree.

Those who hold some of what were formerly believed to be the finest toned Morgans in existence should send them to me. I'll help them dispose of the coins.

I'll do it...........for the children.

clw54 · August 28, 2006 11:01AM

<< The doctoring of coins will never stop until we stop paying insane premiums for toned coins >>

Ya think?

tradedollarnut · August 28, 2006 11:04AM

What will put an end to the doctoring is collector and dealer outrage and the insistence that the docs are outed and ousted along with those dealers who accept their house calls.

You mean saying "you're a man to confess and all is forgiven" won't get the job done?

kevinstang · August 28, 2006 11:06AM

I have always disliked wildly toned coins- been collecting since a kid in 1975, so I don't have to worry about it!

I can remember in the early to mid 80's vibrantly toned Morgans were the thing- my brother bought a bunch from Bob Kelley(? I think it was) rare coins who used to advertise in the old mags- talk about descriptions and the colors? Greens, yellows you name it they were wild, without the internet I wonder how many coin doctors there were back then and how many suckers they found- the Morgans were selling for 2X to #x there normal values for their toning- sound familar. I might still have some of those old mags around I will have to dig out.

Leiana · August 28, 2006 11:07AM

AT is not the only thing a doctor can do.

Etching

Tooling

Cleaning (Though market-acceptable if done "properly")

Plugging

Puttying

Faking MM/Dates

Plating

Whizzing

It's all horrible. And it all results in a profit.

-Amanda

Coxe · August 28, 2006 11:08AM

<< My collection consists of over 90% toned coins and I've got to tell you that this is going to change, and soon. I've got to diversify a little after all this BS.

>>

I sure hope you didn't pay those markups on most of those. Otherwise, you'll probably be in a position similar to the cable TV shoppers. I think it is fine to have a few really nicely toned coins bought at a premium for that. 90%, even if your collection is only 10 coins, is too much IMO. These premiums will evaporate. Saw the same thing a decade ago for, ironically enough, blast white coins. That led to massive dippings. (elwood obviously recalls that.)

When I started out in prooflike Morgans, I worried that it was a short-lived fad and the premium would disappear largely in time. It would be easy enough to extend this to toned coins. The difference is true rarity. A prooflike Morgan of any date is genuinely rare with respect to its peers of the date. Toned coins are not exactly like that and will vary over time. Attractively toned coins are different. Differentiating them and properly valuing them will separate the boys from the men (no gender superiority implied). It's about eye appeal, whether it is toning or any other attributes. There is always a premium worthy for a piece with extraordinary appeal. I fever there was a topic worth studying (book before the coin lesson) before purchasing, this is it. I really hate the thought that there are folks piling their coin funds into toners without first seriously assessing their quality and rarity ..... and longer term chemical stability.

ziggy29 · August 28, 2006 11:09AM

<< AT is not the only thing a doctor can do.

Etching

Tooling

Cleaning (Though market-acceptable if done "properly")

Plugging

Puttying

Faking MM/Dates

Plating

Whizzing

It's all horrible. And it all results in a profit. >>

I'm not sure I'd consider "plugging" horrible in the general case, unless you had a coin plugged and you tried to pass it off as an undamaged coin.

Leiana · August 28, 2006 11:10AM

<< I'm not sure I'd consider "plugging" horrible in the general case, unless you had a coin plugged and you tried to pass it off as an undamaged coin. >>

That's what I was referring to.

-Amanda

The doctoring of coins will never stop until we stop paying insane premiums for toned coins

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