Hypothetical: Sell the coin or the holder, Part Deux
RYK
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Let's say that you own a rare coin in an NGC-55 holder that you purchased from a dealer, who is well-known to be honest, a straight-shooter, and one who supports his market by buying back coins from his customers. For the sake of this illustration, let's say his name is "Derek". You both agree on the NGC AU-55 grade and the price, and both parties are satisfied.
For reasons of aesthetics, registry competition, or even that you have too much time and/or money on your hands, you send it to PCGS for crossover and indicate no minimum grade on the form. The coin returns to you in a PCGS AU-50 holder.
Six months later, you replace the coin or decide that you no longer want the coin and offer it back to Derek. He says that he would like to buy the coin. You tell him that the coin is now in an AU-50 holder. He replies politely (remember, it's a hypothetical
), "You have put me in a pickle. While I could probably sell the coin, I will have trouble getting AU-55 money with the coin in a PCGS AU-55 holder." He is sending a submission to NGC that day and suggests that you pay the grading fee and send your coin with the rest.
One week later, you get a call from Derek. The coin miraculously graded MS-61 at NGC. You both agree that it is a "gift" grade. Coin Values for the coin is $1000 in 50, $2000 in 55, $3000 in MS-60 and $6000 in MS-62. You paid $1500 for the coin in the NGC AU-55 holder six months earlier.
Assuming that the market for this item has been stable (no increase/decrease in demand/pricing), how much do you expect him to pay you for the coin?
For reasons of aesthetics, registry competition, or even that you have too much time and/or money on your hands, you send it to PCGS for crossover and indicate no minimum grade on the form. The coin returns to you in a PCGS AU-50 holder.
Six months later, you replace the coin or decide that you no longer want the coin and offer it back to Derek. He says that he would like to buy the coin. You tell him that the coin is now in an AU-50 holder. He replies politely (remember, it's a hypothetical
), "You have put me in a pickle. While I could probably sell the coin, I will have trouble getting AU-55 money with the coin in a PCGS AU-55 holder." He is sending a submission to NGC that day and suggests that you pay the grading fee and send your coin with the rest.One week later, you get a call from Derek. The coin miraculously graded MS-61 at NGC. You both agree that it is a "gift" grade. Coin Values for the coin is $1000 in 50, $2000 in 55, $3000 in MS-60 and $6000 in MS-62. You paid $1500 for the coin in the NGC AU-55 holder six months earlier.
Assuming that the market for this item has been stable (no increase/decrease in demand/pricing), how much do you expect him to pay you for the coin?
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Comments
-Amanda
I'm a YN working on a type set!
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I had a similar situation where a coin came back 3 different grades from PCGS and NGC (64,63,65). I was offered next to nothing from a dealer friend who submitted it when it came back 63. He said tough luck my friend, I'll give you 30% less. But when he resubmitted it for me a 3rd time it came back 65 (finest graded pop 1) he said, "well, we both know it's only a 64, I'll give you a little more than 64 money." Talk about eyes wide opened (this was 1988).
I had the same circumstances on a draped bust half dime that I bought in a 58 holder. No one I showed it to felt it was anything but a 58. Every cracker I knew passed on it. I sold it for strong 58++ money. The next owner got it in a 62 holder just by resubmitting it. Surprised the heck out of me as it only had about 15% luster, was cleaned, and well scratched. In 1989 this would have been body bagged. It now brought 50% more in the 62 holder. Let's not kid ourselves. Plastic sells, often more than the coin inside. Derek is not about to sell the MS61 to a good customer as "AU55" because he feels that's what it really is. Derek will watch out for Derek.
roadrunner
The coin should be sold on ebay as a NGC 61, but your personal opinion that the coin is a 55 should also be stated.
The market supports that theory as well.
Now if you are selling this coin to a buddy of yours then previous history should be told imo.
I had a coin that I offered up to a few forum members just before the recent ANA but then had 2nd doubts since I knew it had graded 3 different grades when I first bought it. Rather than risk hard feelings at some point, I had it wholesaled at the ANA. It sold very quickly to my surprise. The fact that it was in a 1988 NGC holder as MS65 helped, plus it had some neon colors for eye appeal. But the fact that it graded 64,63,65 on 3 tries back then always bothered me. It sold for MS66 money and I was happy to see it go. For all I know the new owner will get it in a 67 holder. Proof positive that plastic sells, esp old plastic.
I'm also happy to report that the rare date seated quarter that I sold at ANA (and subsequently dipped and massaged by said buyer at the show) did not upgrade. I feel good that the buyer was not rewarded, at least not yet. After ruining the 3rd finest known of this date the last thing I want to see is a buyer doubling his money.
roadrunner
Russ, NCNE
( Derek ) the submission fees.
I'd consign the coin with " Derek The Dealer" and let him have 20% of what the coin sold for in its new NGC 61 holder, obviously at an agreed amount which was satisfactory with the collector & the dealer.
If the coin didn't move in a reasonable amount of time ( a PCGS AU 50* selling for NGC 61* money ? ) I'd still give the dealer a spiff of a few hundred dollars for his efforts.
( ** ) Afterall, the AU50/55 coin was a "Gift Grade in MS 61".
Edited to rename the dealer as Derek...sorry for the goof...
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What's the matter with NGC ?
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<< <i>RYK your a sleazy piece of PVC using my name in your little circus. >>
That's a rather arrogant assumption. Are you the only Derek in the world?
Russ, NCNE
Or shall I put a curse on your collection that they all develop the green slime......
Go for it.
There should be no confusion between Derek2100 and the "Derek" in the hypo. The hypo "Derek" is well-known to be honest, a straight-shooter, and one who supports his market by buying back coins from his customers. He is also polite.