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1933 Saint Gaudens
Curley
Posts: 134
I got a close look today at the ten 1933's at the ANA. Although I am unfamiliar with Saint grading standards, the majority to me would be no better than MS63; lots of scuffing on the highpoints. Somewhat disappointing for such rarities.
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<< <i>I thought the 2 sheets of $100,000 bills were more interesting to see myself. But, I'm glad I saw the 10 1933's. It's still a travesty how they were obtained, though. >>
You got that right. If I were the Switt family I would have not voluntarily turned them over.
The 1913 Liberty nickels were sweet to look at and you didn't have to stand in line to see them either!
The name is LEE!
No matter. They aren't gonna get graded and aren't going to be for sale, IMO.
<< <i>No matter. They aren't gonna get graded and aren't going to be for sale, IMO. >>
You think the government will put some pressure on the courts to rule that they are contraband?
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<< <i>No matter. They aren't gonna get graded and aren't going to be for sale, IMO. >>
You think the government will put some pressure on the courts to rule that they are contraband? >>
The government has possesion and a law in their pocket. The court has a lawsuit filed. Who's holding the cards?
The Treasury Dept. made it perfectly clear that the "Farouk" coin that sold was the ONLY coin to be offered immunity. That's the ruling that was made and stands. I am of the opinion that these coins were stolen from the mint, were not issued by the mint, and are illegal tender. Not that it matters for the 1894-S Barber dime or the 1913 Liberty Nickel. They are all "unauthorized" coins, but the Saint case was taken on by the Secret Service during an extended gold recall so it was more rigorously (and probably more properly) enforced.
That's my legal view of the status. My numismatic opinion is basically the same. Izzy Switt was a scheming, bribing, underhanded dealer who had James McCann by the balls. Once he had him switch or take the first coin, McCann was owned!
That print isnt as nice as the other 2 Ron picked me up (he got em for me because I went a few days later, was afraid they would sell out) along with the 33 bill of sale I picked up a 2 % console printed on that big funky spider press from the 30's, and another, I believe is a 1 dollar bill from the 1890's
Go BIG or GO HOME. ©Bill
<< <i>Not that it matters for the 1894-S Barber dime or the 1913 Liberty Nickel. They are all "unauthorized" coins, but the Saint case was taken on by the Secret Service during an extended gold recall so it was more rigorously (and probably more properly) enforced. >>
I believe the '94-S dime was legit.
The 1913 nickel, 1884 and 1885 Trade dollars are examples of "unauthorized" coins. So too, I guess was the 1804-dated dollar and the 1801-1803 Proof Bust Dollar "restrikes" (actually novodels).
We don't know just how "voluntary" their actions really were. Regardless, I am confident that they received highly competent legal advice and thought or knew that proceeding in that manner was their best chance for success.
<<No matter. They aren't gonna get graded and aren't going to be for sale, IMO.>>
I disagree on both counts.
You are on probation, Shortcake, so watch it.
They will not sell.
Now the 1894-S dime...my understanding was that the director of the mint had a dozen or so minted, took them as samples and that was it. If that's so, I can't see how they were issued. But Barber-trannies aren't my bag, so tell me if I have it wrong.
<< <i>Still, I wouldn't kick Laura out of bed for eating crackers.....
I believe the coin owners will ultimately recieve some form of renumeration as a result of owning these coins. The last sentance was designed to be very ambiguous.
Surprising to me that we have not heard of a legal case being filed against the government for these 10 coins, the new 33 double eagle book made it seem like it was happening.....
It would certainly be an interesting case if it goes to court in regards to the legality of these coins.....
Specifically:
It's a LONG story but a few highlights below:
"Bill would legitimize all pre-1933 coinage"
1. make immune from seizure any coins, medals, or other numismatic items made or issued prior to 1/1/33.
2a) if made on or after 1/1/33 the bill would require the mint to "display & preserve an appropriate number"...for educational/historic purposes...
2b). If "extra" examples (beyond the number need to comply with 2a) exist, the bill requires the gov to auction off "surplus" & use the proceeds for the preservation & display of the Smithsonian's collection through the creation of an endowment fund...
SPECIFICALLY included are the 1933 $20's, the 1964-D Peace dollars, & the 1974 aluminum Lincoln cent.
3. By 1/1/07 the treasury must report it's holdings of these types of items & present a revised list at least every 5 years.
The Fenton - Parrino coin which was the subject of the "sting" was auctioned with Fenton receiving half of the proceeds and the Treasury receiving the other half. Looking at this situation as a precedent, why wouldn't the Switt family receive half of the proceeds (i.e., the proceeds for 5 of the 1933's that were turned in)?
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
<< <i>The display at the ANA noted that the 1933 double eagles left the Mint by being switched with other dated double eagles. >>
Ah but WHERE were they switched? If on the coining floor or in the vaults then they may be right. If it was done at the cashiers window or office (where some of the 33's were stored) then it would be legal because that was one of the jobs of the cashiers office, to exchange old coins for current year issues for collectors or the general public. This is one of the problems with the governments arguments, there was at least one potentially legal way they could have been released.