Bifurcation of the rare gold market

RYK · August 14, 2006 4:31AM

I spoke with Reece earlier today on the phone, and we both came to the same independent observation that the shiny, dipped and aggressively graded gold coins were selling below wholesale or not meeting their reserve, while the accurately-graded, original coins were selling for extremely strong money, Trends and sometimes well over Trends. While one has to look at it on a coin-by-coin basis (as some coins are undergraded and some overgraded and downright nasty), neither of us has ever in this market witnessed as dramatic a bifurcation. Perhaps the rare gold coin community is finally getting FatMan's message: "Just say no to dipping."

Regulated · August 14, 2006 4:32AM

Nice use of the word bifurcation.

rhedden · August 14, 2006 4:38AM

Nice job politely describing the overdipped junkers without using the word "NGC."

Edited to add: can I get in trouble for saying that?

tradedollarnut · August 14, 2006 4:43AM

<< Nice job politely describing the overdipped junkers without using the word "NGC."

Edited to add: can I get in trouble for saying that? >>

Not here.

Longacre · August 14, 2006 4:46AM

What do you think the reason is for this? Is it better consumer awareness, or is it a sign of a market peak for the junk, which may ultimately affect the original pieces too, by taking the market down in total?

sweetwilliet · August 14, 2006 4:54AM

Nice use of the word bifurcation.

I agree, bifurcation in the form of a noun. Bifurcated, or bifid, are also applicable.

MrEureka · August 14, 2006 5:26AM

Bifurcation of the rare gold market

It is the market for plastic, not rare gold, that is bifurcated.

saintguru · August 14, 2006 5:29AM

Bifurcate you, Andy.

lkenefic · August 14, 2006 5:31AM

...any chance this trend will bleed over into the silver market?????

oreville · August 14, 2006 5:37AM

Hmmmm.......how will this affect California FRACTIONALS gold?

Will they become fractionalized?

Or will the term bifurcation still apply.

It is no secret that NGC graded cal fractional gold is looser than the old PCGS slabbed Cal fractional gold. Then again, NGC did not grade fractionals until two years ago.

saintguru · August 14, 2006 5:38AM

expect dessication.

Longacre · August 14, 2006 5:39AM

I see I'm not missing much on my vacation.

mdwoods · August 14, 2006 5:40AM

I was told by a couple experts to look for that original "skin" when buying 20th century gold. That those pieces were more highly valued by those in the know.

1jester · August 14, 2006 6:27AM

michael will tell us he told us so.

SFDukie · August 15, 2006 2:46AM

<< Nice use of the word bifurcation.

I agree, bifurcation in the form of a noun. Bifurcated, or bifid, are also applicable. >>

RYK is a splitter, not a lumper

nankraut · August 15, 2006 2:50AM

OH NO!!! not another thread on bifurcation.

FatMan · August 15, 2006 3:08AM

<< OH NO!!! not another thread on bifurcation.

>>

My thoughts exactly.

I agree with your observation with the exception of the top graded slabs. I was shocked at the prices some of the processed gold realized in the Duke's Creek auction. With the monster grade on the slab, apparently the number still rules.

mrearlygold · August 15, 2006 3:36AM

I would say that this is a time you should be extra extra extra careful in buying any coins.

bikenut · August 15, 2006 3:47AM

I had to look up 'bifurcation'.

shirohniichan · August 15, 2006 3:52AM

<< I had to look up 'bifurcation'. >>

I thought it was used as an antacid.

It appears collectors of rare gold have gotten an education. It's not about the number on the slab-- it's about the eye-appeal of the coin.

michael · August 15, 2006 5:14AM

'bifurcation'

hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

i thought it meant being in two different places at one time

like with padre pio

tincup · August 15, 2006 5:24AM

O-R-I-G-I-N-A-L-I-T-Y !! The trend for the future.... more are starting to wise up. Check out the other thread on proof Indian Cents....

It will expand to the silver coins also. Originals are slowly dwindling away....... get them while you can!

Reece · August 15, 2006 12:32PM

Tincup, I couldnt agree with you more!!

Coinosaurus · August 15, 2006 12:45PM

I'm surprised RYK couldn't figure out how to get the word "confluence" in there as well

Is it football season yet?

ccex · August 15, 2006 12:52PM

Bifurcation of the rare gold market? This is irrelevant to most coin collectors, but I respect the opinion offered for those who can afford the quality and thumb their noses at the rest of us. To quote the 1920's pop song "Ain't We Got Fun", the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

If you are not fortunate to afford original, gem gold, or if you are on the fence about spending a big chunk of your savings on gold, check out this album cover. "How can you be in two places at once when you're not anywhere at all?"

Coxe · August 15, 2006 12:55PM

<< 'bifurcation'

hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

i thought it meant being in two different places at one time

like with padre pio >>

It is a distinct forking or splitting into two. Classic example is the x <-- 1 - mx**2 attractor over the [-1,1] interval. Here is a quick image I just made with a perl script to demonstrate it.

RYK · August 15, 2006 12:58PM

I'm surprised RYK couldn't figure out how to get the word "confluence" in there as well

I'll be happy to try: The confluence of the trends in grading and changing collector preferences will result in a choppy rare date gold market going forward. It might be too late to dump the overgraded stuff.

For all of you linguists, I use the word, "bifurcation", at work daily. Just like some of you (apparently) use MS-70 daily.

Oh, and, yes, the Super Bowl XL champion Steelers will be opening their 2006 season at the confluence of the Allegheny and Monongahela Rivers on September 7. This date also happens to be my wife's birthday, putting me in a bit of a tight spot.

Coinosaurus · August 15, 2006 12:58PM

<< Bifurcation of the rare gold market? This is irrelevant to most coin collectors, but I respect the opinion offered for those who can afford the quality and thumb their noses at the rest of us. To quote the 1920's pop song "Ain't We Got Fun", the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.
at all?"
>>

I disagree. If originality is really worth something, there are tons of classic silver coins worth less than a hundred bucks that are ripe for cherry picking and worth putting away.

Coinosaurus · August 15, 2006 1:02PM

<< 
Oh, and, yes, the Super Bowl XL champion Steelers will be opening their 2006 season at the confluence of the Allegheny and Monongahela Rivers on September 7. This date also happens to be my wife's birthday, putting me in a bit of a tight spot.

>>

RYK, my Dolphins have you covered. I recommend you blow off your wife's birthday for the football game. Then when the Steelers lose you'll be so depressed that you will crack out all that rare date gold and sell it raw on ebay. Sounds like a win-win-win to me

RYK · August 15, 2006 1:03PM

Bifurcation of the rare gold market? This is irrelevant to most coin collectors, but I respect the opinion offered for those who can afford the quality and thumb their noses at the rest of us. To quote the 1920's pop song "Ain't We Got Fun", the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

Lest we offend someone, perhaps we should limit all discussion of coins to circulated Lincoln Memorial cents post-1982 that are plucked from pocket change.

IGWT · August 15, 2006 1:10PM

-- "Lest we offend someone . . . ." --

"Bifurcate,' "confluence," and "lest" all in one thread! Now we're cookin' with gas!

Edited to add something substantive: The bifurcation is not limited to the gold of which RYK writes.

ccex · August 15, 2006 2:35PM

<< Bifurcation of the rare gold market? This is irrelevant to most coin collectors, but I respect the opinion offered for those who can afford the quality and thumb their noses at the rest of us. To quote the 1920's pop song "Ain't We Got Fun", the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

Lest we offend someone, perhaps we should limit all discussion of coins to circulated Lincoln Memorial cents post-1982 that are plucked from pocket change. >>

No offense taken. I also eschew and spend post-1982 Lincoln Memorial cents. (I spend time pondering whether a Barber semi-key is AG 3.5 vs. AG 3.7 but have completed the gold page in my Dansco 7070 from XF to MS-62) However, I wish to point out that the average poop off the street who considers himself as a coin collector might be relatively impecunious, thus rendering this thread irrelevant to him. To the best of my knowledge, PCGS does not require a coin collector to disclose his income before allowing him to post on this educational forum of "the hobby of kings" If you are kingly, and enjoy original U.S. gold, please don't imply that the majority of coin collectors have no right to participate in a discussion of what makes an expensive coin a good value or a loser. This form has been one of the most educational places I've found on U.S. coins, and I don't want to be excluded on the basis of disposqable income.

My point was to state that most colledtors would love to have chosen your parents or your profession to put them in the position where they could choose between a cheap, dipped/polished/worked on gold coin vs. a more expensive original one. If you punch a time clock and are paid an hourly wage, better rare gold coins are irrelevant, and meaniingful participation in this thread is a fantasy. The quality coins get more out of reach of the average collector each year and the celbrated posters/dealers here get more fun showing off their acquisitions The average poop off the street might collect Lincolns and dream about $3 princesses in MS-6x. His Lincoln collection probably has problems, too, but he dreams about those $3 gold coins and comes here for pictures and information about them. Yes, he may have been ripped off from Coin World or eBay, or a local dealer while pursuing his dreams. Still, the average collector is someone "in two places at once, when he's not anywhere at all". as you imply.

No, the PCGS U.S. Coins forum should not be limited to the least common denominator coins that we have all accumulated. That would be as ridiculouus as the Kurt Vonnegut story "Harrision Bergeron" in which "all men are created equal" becomes legislated to "all men are equally enfeebled". In that story, all Americans stay at home in front of their TV sets, wearing a suit of lead buckshot in proportion to their strength. You propose (in jest) that all of us wear pounds of politically correct armor/ballast as to not offend the likes of me.

Please feel free to preach your wisdom here on this forum, but do not assume it has to be watered down for ignoramuses or collectors of any level of dosposable income.

ccex · August 15, 2006 4:31PM

<< -- "Lest we offend someone . . . ." --

"Bifurcate,' "confluence," and "lest" all in one thread! Now we're cookin' with gas!

Edited to add something substantive: The bifurcation is not limited to the gold of which RYK writes. >>

Good point! Crrent market prices seem to go up only for the most desirable coins, while the widgets languish, regardless of metal content.

stinkinlincoln · August 9, 2009 3:43AM

So dipping is doctoring.......

I knew it!

BECOKA · August 9, 2009 4:01AM

Another great blast from the past that still holds water today.

Bear · August 9, 2009 2:44PM

I didn't think that it was legal

to bifurcate in public.

Longacre · August 9, 2009 11:08PM

Another RYK Classic™ thread that still holds true today.

SeaEagleCoins · August 9, 2009 11:20PM

<< I didn't think that it was legal

to bifurcate in public. >>

I think we are safe until there is a six-way split in the marketplace...

Then what we will have is open sexfurcation on the bourse floor...

Now that could get ugly...and very strange...

edited to add... it would be excessively strange, especially with all the BIfurcation that is going on already

...sorry Carol... the spirit of George Carlin would not let me pass this one up...

RYK · August 9, 2009 11:31PM

<< 

<< I didn't think that it was legal

to bifurcate in public. >>

I think we are safe until there is a six-way split in the marketplace...

Then what we will have is open sexfurcation on the bourse floor...

Now that could get ugly...and very strange...

edited to add... it would be excessively strange, especially with all the BIfurcation that is going on already

...sorry Carol... the spirit of George Carlin would not let me pass this one up...

>>

Thanks for getting my thread poofed, man.

SeaEagleCoins · August 9, 2009 11:48PM

<< 

<< 

<< I didn't think that it was legal

to bifurcate in public. >>

I think we are safe until there is a six-way split in the marketplace...

Then what we will have is open sexfurcation on the bourse floor...

Now that could get ugly...and very strange...

edited to add... it would be excessively strange, especially with all the BIfurcation that is going on already

...sorry Carol... the spirit of George Carlin would not let me pass this one up...

>>

Thanks for getting my thread poofed, man.

>>

Please...Carol...if my post was too over the top, please just "surgically remove it"... the thread is too good to lose... besides...if RYK gets mad at me, he'll sic Longacre and his entourage on me...and THAT could get real ugly...

Bifurcation of the rare gold market

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