Great to see a true professional like Biggio do things the proper way, and do it quietly. But he is an evil evil man, because he never gave back to the town he grew up in, am I correct Bri?
Bri and I cleared that up, it was a simple misunderstanding
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
Axtell and Stown, why don't you two just duke it out. It could be the first ever collectors universe grudge match. The winner would recieve a years supply of submissions.
Ok ..... try this one then (And by the way, I am not knocking Biggio by any means...but)
How about Lou Whitaker and Alan Trammell ?
Yes, they were not the greatest of hitters all time, but, no one played more games together and no one (THAT IS NOOOOOBOY!) has more double play combos in history.
Because of this, should they be in the HOF?
I am not saying they should or should or should NOT be, I am just asking the question since we are now talking about great 2nd baseman (OR SHORTSTOPS THAT IS)
Wouldn't changing my mind be saying 'yes he's a hall of famer' to 'no, he's not a hall of famer'?
I would think so.
I never did that. But in your mind, you can't see that varying degrees of thought. You can't see that I initially agreed, then, upon looking at the stats hesitated, then, upon reflecting on the information, went with a 'yes' nod.
I am sorry life to you is black and white with no gray.
Ok ..... try this one then (And by the way, I am not knocking Biggio by any means...but)
How about Lou Whitaker and Alan Trammell ?
Yes, they were not the greatest of hitters all time, but, no one played more games together and no one (THAT IS NOOOOOBOY!) has more double play combos in history.
Because of this, should they be in the HOF?
I am not saying they should or should or should NOT be, I am just asking the question since we are now talking about great 2nd baseman (OR SHORTSTOPS THAT IS)
GOOD NIGHT ALL! Tony aka KalineFan >>
Should they be in the Hall, yes they should. If you compare Trammell's numbers to Ripken's numbers, over a 162 game average, they are very similar, only Ripken hit for more power. Ripken IS a Hall of Famer by mere merit alone, but Trammell should get some consideration, more so than he has.
Here are 162 game averages for Trammell and Ripken:
AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG TB SH SF IBB HBP GDP
We all know Ripken is a future Hall of Famer, and Trammell's numbers are somewhat similar, therefore he should get more consideration than he does. Biggio, arguably is a Hall of Famer, personally, I feel he is, and 3,000 hits will cement his status, but if you compare all stats at their respective positions, all are somewhat similar, one being better than the other on some points, but altogether, similar. I give credit to all four players for playing their whole careers for one team, and I respect them all for being real professionals in their trade. Defensively, both groups compare almost identically in fielding %. Now I expect other board members to tell me why I am wrong in feeling all four are HOFers!!!!!
Wouldn't changing my mind be saying 'yes he's a hall of famer' to 'no, he's not a hall of famer'?
I would think so.
I never did that. But in your mind, you can't see that varying degrees of thought. You can't see that I initially agreed, then, upon looking at the stats hesitated, then, upon reflecting on the information, went with a 'yes' nod.
I am sorry life to you is black and white with no gray. >>
Oh so now it's changing your mind, not your stance, as you previously were defending.
Flip-flop... Flip-flop...
Twisting your words and arguments won't hold water anymore, axtell.
We all know the only reason you even came on this thread was to start a flame war with me.
You lost, miserably.
Now be gone with you since you said that was final post here. Thank you for no contribution what-so-ever on this topic.
Owned again and again and again and again...
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
I liked Trammell but I am on the fence with him. If he gets in, then Barry Larkin gets in. Does Barry Larkin merit this? Roberto Alomar is going to get in. Does Jeff Kent get in?
Last night, Biggio hit his 49th lead off home run to extend his NL record. With that, he moved up to number 34 on all time hits with 2,885.
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
Only signed through this year. Allegedly, they have a handshake agreement to do a year to year contract. He probably has another year or two left in him.. When he decides to retire, he will be the first Astro inducted into the HOF
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
Biggio is a class act and a first ballot HOFer IMO. He has been quietly putting up really impressive numbers for years now, and has excelled at different positions in the field in the process.
Even though he was real close to 3,000 hits, I just can't see Alomar getting in the Hall, at least not right away, as his career took a real nosedive after his trade to NY and many voters will remember him for that extended stretch when he was not at all productive, not to mention the spitting at the umpire incident. If Alomar gets in, it's an absolute injustice that Dawson is not in the Hall either.
Kent is borderline, great stats for a stretch, but always unpopular with the press, and I just don't see him getting enough votes to get in either.
Larkin is an interesting candidate. A very popular player who played his entire career for one team (a real rarity these days) and who was a very good but not great player over a long career. If he had as many hits as Alomar, he's be a shoe-in, but the lifetime average of .295 may not be quite high enough either, though he did win 3 Gold Gloves and an MVP. A tough call there, but my feeling is that he will get in, just maybe not right away.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>I liked Trammell but I am on the fence with him. If he gets in, then Barry Larkin gets in. Does Barry Larkin merit this? Roberto Alomar is going to get in. Does Jeff Kent get in? >>
<< <i>If you put Biggio in, you have to put Kent in. >>
Just when you thought Tinkerbell had shown all of her ignorance about the game of baseball, she says something like this.
Bravo, Tinkerbell, you just out-did yourself.
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
Biggio has about 800 more career hits than Kent. No way Jeff Kent gets in the Hall with his numbers. Biggio will probably get to 3,000 before he's done and he's a much better, much more consistent hitter as well. Plus, Kent was always a jerk with the press and those guys have long memories, too.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>I liked Trammell but I am on the fence with him. If he gets in, then Barry Larkin gets in. Does Barry Larkin merit this? Roberto Alomar is going to get in. Does Jeff Kent get in? >>
If you put Biggio in, you have to put Kent in. >>
Kent isn't even in Biggs league.
Collecting; Mark Mulder rookies Chipper Jones rookies Orlando Cabrera rookies Lawrence Taylor Sam Huff Lavar Arrington NY Giants NY Yankees NJ Nets NJ Devils 1950s-1960s Topps NY Giants Team cards
Hmm Kent has a higher career BA, more HR, more RBI, superior SLG, and an MVP.
Biggio has him in hits because he's played 4 more years, and a slightly better career OBP (.370 vs. .354).
Their average/162 games in hits is nearly identical (177 for Biggio, 174 for Kent). Kent has batted .289 each of the last 2 years (his career BA), so it doesn't look like he's slowing down much. Who's to say he doesn't have the same number of hits as Biggio when it's all said and done?
Throw in Kent's power numbers crushing Biggio (70+ more HRs in 4 fewer years), and that's why I say if Biggio goes in, Kent goes in.
Ah, I've never really taken a look at Kents overall numbers(I mean, yes I remember him putting up some great power numbers for 2nd basemen a few years back).
Collecting; Mark Mulder rookies Chipper Jones rookies Orlando Cabrera rookies Lawrence Taylor Sam Huff Lavar Arrington NY Giants NY Yankees NJ Nets NJ Devils 1950s-1960s Topps NY Giants Team cards
As I said, you continue to show everyone that you know absolutely nothing about baseball.
Back on topic, with Biggio's 50th lead-off HR (NL Record), he tied Mickey Mantle for 37th on the all-time list of extra-base hits with 952.
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
<< <i>Funny you want to talk about leadoff home runs, but fail to mention that Kent is killing him in career HR (in 4 fewer seasons). >>
FACT - Biggio has 50 leadoff homeruns which is a National League record.
<< <i>Extra base hits? You're really reaching there. >>
FACT - Biggio is tied with Mickey Mantle for all-time extra base hits at 952.
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
^^ Why does it matter if milestones are celebrated? It doesn't.
Collecting; Mark Mulder rookies Chipper Jones rookies Orlando Cabrera rookies Lawrence Taylor Sam Huff Lavar Arrington NY Giants NY Yankees NJ Nets NJ Devils 1950s-1960s Topps NY Giants Team cards
<< <i>^^ Why does it matter if milestones are celebrated? It doesn't. >>
Yeah, just ask Barry Bonds
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
I guess Mr. Biggio is sort of like how I always thought Mr. Palmerio was just another guy who plays a solid but not HOF worthy career, but then he snuck up and got over 500 HRs, which all of a sudden, he's a first ballot HOFer (or he was until that whole steroids thing). Like pre-steroids Palmiero, I always saw Mr. Biggio as a guy with a solid career, but not really HOF material, but now he'll most likely get to 3000 hits next season, and thus, like all the other 3000 hit guys, is now a first ballot HOFer. All the other 3000 hit guys got in on the first ballot, why stop at Mr. Biggio?
3000 hits, multiple gold gloves and all-star appearances. played catcher and 2b. classy guy, a real gamer. He will one day be a Hall of Famer, just like Blylevn.
<< <i>3000 hits, multiple gold gloves and all-star appearances. played catcher and 2b. classy guy, a real gamer. He will one day be a Hall of Famer, just like Blylevn. >>
Really?
How many times has Blyleven been up for the hall? You think magically they're going to vote him in?
estil:
Raffy is a 3000 hit guy, and he won't be going to the hall...Biggio has never had the steroid suspicion, so he'll get in.
Comments
Bri and I cleared that up, it was a simple misunderstanding
<< <i>Nonononononononono...
Bri and I cleared that up, it was a simple misunderstanding
It really does not matter, just goes to show some people think that those who made it, HAVE to give back to the community!
Edited to add: If he said it, he felt it!
Ok ..... try this one then
(And by the way, I am not knocking Biggio by any means...but)
How about Lou Whitaker and Alan Trammell ?
Yes, they were not the greatest of hitters all time,
but, no one played more games together and
no one (THAT IS NOOOOOBOY!) has more double
play combos in history.
Because of this, should they be in the HOF?
I am not saying they should or should or should
NOT be, I am just asking the question since we
are now talking about great 2nd baseman
(OR SHORTSTOPS THAT IS)
GOOD NIGHT ALL!
Tony
aka KalineFan
Wouldn't changing my mind be saying 'yes he's a hall of famer' to 'no, he's not a hall of famer'?
I would think so.
I never did that. But in your mind, you can't see that varying degrees of thought. You can't see that I initially agreed, then, upon looking at the stats hesitated, then, upon reflecting on the information, went with a 'yes' nod.
I am sorry life to you is black and white with no gray.
<< <i>
Ok ..... try this one then
(And by the way, I am not knocking Biggio by any means...but)
How about Lou Whitaker and Alan Trammell ?
Yes, they were not the greatest of hitters all time,
but, no one played more games together and
no one (THAT IS NOOOOOBOY!) has more double
play combos in history.
Because of this, should they be in the HOF?
I am not saying they should or should or should
NOT be, I am just asking the question since we
are now talking about great 2nd baseman
(OR SHORTSTOPS THAT IS)
GOOD NIGHT ALL!
Tony
aka KalineFan
Should they be in the Hall, yes they should. If you compare Trammell's numbers to Ripken's numbers, over a 162 game average, they are very similar, only Ripken hit for more power. Ripken IS a Hall of Famer by mere merit alone, but Trammell should get some consideration, more so than he has.
Here are 162 game averages for Trammell and Ripken:
AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG TB SH SF IBB HBP GDP
586 87 167 29 4 13 71 17 8 60 62 .285 .352 .415 243 9 5 3 3 11--------Trammell
624 89 172 33 2 23 91 2 2 61 70 .276 .340 .447 279 1 7 6 4 19--------Ripken
Here are 162 game averages for Whitaker and Biggio:
AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG TB SH SF IBB HBP GDP
581 94 161 28 4 17 73 10 5 81 74 .276 .363 .426 247 6 6 5 1 10-----------Whitaker
620 107 177 38 3 16 67 26 8 69 98 .285 .370 .437 271 6 4 4 17 8------------Biggio (through 2005)
We all know Ripken is a future Hall of Famer, and Trammell's numbers are somewhat similar, therefore he should get more consideration than he does. Biggio, arguably is a Hall of Famer, personally, I feel he is, and 3,000 hits will cement his status, but if you compare all stats at their respective positions, all are somewhat similar, one being better than the other on some points, but altogether, similar. I give credit to all four players for playing their whole careers for one team, and I respect them all for being real professionals in their trade. Defensively, both groups compare almost identically in fielding %. Now I expect other board members to tell me why I am wrong in feeling all four are HOFers!!!!!
<< <i>stown, final post on this topic-
Wouldn't changing my mind be saying 'yes he's a hall of famer' to 'no, he's not a hall of famer'?
I would think so.
I never did that. But in your mind, you can't see that varying degrees of thought. You can't see that I initially agreed, then, upon looking at the stats hesitated, then, upon reflecting on the information, went with a 'yes' nod.
I am sorry life to you is black and white with no gray. >>
Oh so now it's changing your mind, not your stance, as you previously were defending.
Flip-flop... Flip-flop...
Twisting your words and arguments won't hold water anymore, axtell.
We all know the only reason you even came on this thread was to start a flame war with me.
You lost, miserably.
Now be gone with you since you said that was final post here. Thank you for no contribution what-so-ever on this topic.
Owned again and again and again and again...
<< <i>Biggio now has 50 leadoff home runs
Good for Biggio. Is he under contract for next season?
Even though he was real close to 3,000 hits, I just can't see Alomar getting in the Hall, at least not right away, as his career took a real nosedive after his trade to NY and many voters will remember him for that extended stretch when he was not at all productive, not to mention the spitting at the umpire incident. If Alomar gets in, it's an absolute injustice that Dawson is not in the Hall either.
Kent is borderline, great stats for a stretch, but always unpopular with the press, and I just don't see him getting enough votes to get in either.
Larkin is an interesting candidate. A very popular player who played his entire career for one team (a real rarity these days) and who was a very good but not great player over a long career. If he had as many hits as Alomar, he's be a shoe-in, but the lifetime average of .295 may not be quite high enough either, though he did win 3 Gold Gloves and an MVP. A tough call there, but my feeling is that he will get in, just maybe not right away.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>I liked Trammell but I am on the fence with him. If he gets in, then Barry Larkin gets in. Does Barry Larkin merit this? Roberto Alomar is going to get in. Does Jeff Kent get in? >>
If you put Biggio in, you have to put Kent in.
<< <i>If you put Biggio in, you have to put Kent in. >>
Just when you thought Tinkerbell had shown all of her ignorance about the game of baseball, she says something like this.
Bravo, Tinkerbell, you just out-did yourself.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>
<< <i>I liked Trammell but I am on the fence with him. If he gets in, then Barry Larkin gets in. Does Barry Larkin merit this? Roberto Alomar is going to get in. Does Jeff Kent get in? >>
If you put Biggio in, you have to put Kent in. >>
Kent isn't even in Biggs league.
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References:
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VintageJeff
Biggio has him in hits because he's played 4 more years, and a slightly better career OBP (.370 vs. .354).
Their average/162 games in hits is nearly identical (177 for Biggio, 174 for Kent). Kent has batted .289 each of the last 2 years (his career BA), so it doesn't look like he's slowing down much. Who's to say he doesn't have the same number of hits as Biggio when it's all said and done?
Throw in Kent's power numbers crushing Biggio (70+ more HRs in 4 fewer years), and that's why I say if Biggio goes in, Kent goes in.
Mark Mulder rookies
Chipper Jones rookies
Orlando Cabrera rookies
Lawrence Taylor
Sam Huff
Lavar Arrington
NY Giants
NY Yankees
NJ Nets
NJ Devils
1950s-1960s Topps NY Giants Team cards
Looking for Topps rookies as well.
References:
GregM13
VintageJeff
As I said, you continue to show everyone that you know absolutely nothing about baseball.
Back on topic, with Biggio's 50th lead-off HR (NL Record), he tied Mickey Mantle for 37th on the all-time list of extra-base hits with 952.
Extra base hits? You're really reaching there.
<< <i>Funny you want to talk about leadoff home runs, but fail to mention that Kent is killing him in career HR (in 4 fewer seasons). >>
FACT - Biggio has 50 leadoff homeruns which is a National League record.
<< <i>Extra base hits? You're really reaching there. >>
FACT - Biggio is tied with Mickey Mantle for all-time extra base hits at 952.
But celebrating 37th on the career extra base hit list? And celebrating second on the leadoff home run list (Henderson has more).
Does anyone outside Houston care about his reaching either of these 'milestones'?
Why does it matter if milestones are celebrated? It doesn't.
Mark Mulder rookies
Chipper Jones rookies
Orlando Cabrera rookies
Lawrence Taylor
Sam Huff
Lavar Arrington
NY Giants
NY Yankees
NJ Nets
NJ Devils
1950s-1960s Topps NY Giants Team cards
Looking for Topps rookies as well.
References:
GregM13
VintageJeff
<< <i>^^
Why does it matter if milestones are celebrated? It doesn't. >>
Yeah, just ask Barry Bonds
<< <i>
<< <i>^^
Why does it matter if milestones are celebrated? It doesn't. >>
Yeah, just ask Barry Bonds
Why would anyone celebrate becoming #2, let alone #37?
Dimes: 54S, 53P, 50P, 49S, 45D+S, 44S, 43D, 41S, 40D+S, 39D+S, 38D+S, 37D+S, 36S, 35D+S, all 16-34's
Quarters: 52S, 47S, 46S, 40S, 39S, 38S, 37D+S, 36D+S, 35D, 34D, 32D+S
74 Topps: 37,38,46,47,48,138,151,193,210,214,223,241,256,264,268,277,289,316,435,552,570,577,592,602,610,654,655
1997 Finest silver: 115, 135, 139, 145, 310
1995 Ultra Gold Medallion Sets: Golden Prospects, HR Kings, On-Base Leaders, Power Plus, RBI Kings, Rising Stars
<< <i>3000 hits, multiple gold gloves and all-star appearances. played catcher and 2b. classy guy, a real gamer. He will one day be a Hall of Famer, just like Blylevn. >>
Really?
How many times has Blyleven been up for the hall? You think magically they're going to vote him in?
estil:
Raffy is a 3000 hit guy, and he won't be going to the hall...Biggio has never had the steroid suspicion, so he'll get in.