Options
Biggio - 630 Doubles - Passes Hank Aaron
Writer11
Posts: 738 ✭
in Sports Talk
Well, Bonds hasn't passed Aaron on the HR list, Biggio very quietly passed Aaron on the all-time doubles list. Biggio has 630 career doubles. Good enough for 9th all-time. At his current pace, he should pass Honus Wagner and Yaz by the end of the year. Congrats to Biggio.
0
Comments
<< <i>Biggio very quietly passed... >>
He's been quitely passing quite a few HOFers on all-time lists. The only thing that was mentioned in the National news was the hit-by-pitches. Ironically, they complained saying he wears body armor and leans into pitches.
1st ballot HOFer in my book.
congrats to him
Steve
He will eventually get in, but what's he done to distinguish himself as the best of his era?
<< <i>what's he done to distinguish himself as the best of his era? >>
Just the only player in MLB history to have at least 600 doubles, 2,800 hits, 250 homers and 400 steals. A 7 time all-star, 4 gold gloves, consistant each and every year, is on pace to have 3,000 hits by the beginning of next year, and one of the few truly "good guys" in baseball (spokesman for the Sunshine Kids, who he has raised over $2,000,000 in donations).
Ryan Sanberg getting in made Biggio a shoe-in. While he may not make the HOF on the first ballot, he should in my book.
Should the hall of fame be about dominant players, not just ones who have done well for a long period of time?
2 top 10 finishes for batting average (6th and 10th), no league leads for HR or RBI.
No MVP awards (6th was his best showing).
It's been 8 years since he's made the all star team.
9 years since a gold glove award.
I know he's been the heart and soul of the Astros organization, but the more I look at his numbers, the less I become convinced he's going to make the hall.
<< <i>the more I look at his numbers, the less I become convinced he's going to make the hall. >>
Well that's your opinion and you are entitled to it. It's just too bad that your opinion is meaningless when the HOF ballots are counted and Biggio is giving his acceptance speech.
<< <i>
<< <i>the more I look at his numbers, the less I become convinced he's going to make the hall. >>
Well that's your opinion and you are entitled to it. It's just too bad that your opinion is meaningless when the HOF ballots are counted and Biggio is giving his acceptance speech. >>
Are you a HoF voter?
Oh wait you aren't...too bad your opinion is just as meaningless.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>the more I look at his numbers, the less I become convinced he's going to make the hall. >>
Well that's your opinion and you are entitled to it. It's just too bad that your opinion is meaningless when the HOF ballots are counted and Biggio is giving his acceptance speech. >>
Are you a HoF voter?
Oh wait you aren't...too bad your opinion is just as meaningless. >>
Couldn't come back with a witty comeback, huh ax? So instead you resort to I know you are but what am I?
You are just jealous, as you say, because your "team" (and I put that lightly) refuses to allow a player to finish his career with the same team he started with. Don't be so bitter. Maybe, doubtful but who knows, one day the Ms will draft a player that stays with them his entire career. Then you too can see him adorn your team's cap when he enters the HOF.
Once again Ax showing he knows nothing. No he didn't dominate, he wasn't that type of hitter. He was one of the most consistent, if not the most consistent second baseman the past 15 seasons. I have no doubt he's a first ballot HOF'er, and from the way he's spoken about throughout the media, it's highly UNlikely that he won't be a first ballot inductee.
Mark Mulder rookies
Chipper Jones rookies
Orlando Cabrera rookies
Lawrence Taylor
Sam Huff
Lavar Arrington
NY Giants
NY Yankees
NJ Nets
NJ Devils
1950s-1960s Topps NY Giants Team cards
Looking for Topps rookies as well.
References:
GregM13
VintageJeff
That, however, does not make a hall of famer. You saying he's a first ballot guy shows just how little you know about the game.
As far as long term players, Edgar Martinez played his entire career, and he's likely to become the first DH to make the hall of fame. He DOMINATED the game in a way that Biggio never did.
Perhaps you think the hall should be open for anyone who sticks around for 20 years?
<< <i>Presented with the facts about Biggio's career you turn into the buffoon you really are. He never dominated, he never was an elite player, he was very good for a very long time.
That, however, does not make a hall of famer. You saying he's a first ballot guy shows just how little you know about the game.
As far as long term players, Edgar Martinez played his entire career, and he's likely to become the first DH to make the hall of fame. He DOMINATED the game in a way that Biggio never did.
Perhaps you think the hall should be open for anyone who sticks around for 20 years? >>
This comes from someone who thinks a .280 hitter is the best in baseball today.
And please don't derail this thread. If you want to talk about Edgar, who may make the HOF but doesn't deserve it, please feel free to take that discussion to your "'official' official" Ms thread which you have seriously neglected.
Rod Carew
Nellie Fox
Bill Mazeroski
Joe Morgan
Ryne Sandberg
Red Schoendienst
That Biggio is better than Fox, Mazeroski and Schoendienst is a point I will assume no serious person would argue. That he was better than Sandberg is almost as obvious but there remain a few diehards who don't understand ballpark differences. I think he was better than Carew, but I could understand the opposing view. And he clearly was not as good as Morgan.
So over a period of half a century, he is either the second or third best player at his position, and better than a great majority of the people at his position already in the HOF. There simply is no reasonable argument for not voting for him as soon as he is eligible; there will be some who don't - some didn't vote for Mays or Aaron - but nobody who knows anything about baseball will not vote for him. The absence of Bert Blyleven from the HOF, however, proves that there are quite a few voters who know nothing about baseball.
I agree with your statement and the Blyleven comment as well.
Mark Mulder rookies
Chipper Jones rookies
Orlando Cabrera rookies
Lawrence Taylor
Sam Huff
Lavar Arrington
NY Giants
NY Yankees
NJ Nets
NJ Devils
1950s-1960s Topps NY Giants Team cards
Looking for Topps rookies as well.
References:
GregM13
VintageJeff
<< <i>The following players have played all or a large percentage of their careers at second base in the last 50 years and been inducted into the HOF:
Rod Carew
Nellie Fox
Bill Mazeroski
Joe Morgan
Ryne Sandberg
Red Schoendienst
That Biggio is better than Fox, Mazeroski and Schoendienst is a point I will assume no serious person would argue. That he was better than Sandberg is almost as obvious but there remain a few diehards who don't understand ballpark differences. I think he was better than Carew, but I could understand the opposing view. And he clearly was not as good as Morgan.
So over a period of half a century, he is either the second or third best player at his position, and better than a great majority of the people at his position already in the HOF. There simply is no reasonable argument for not voting for him as soon as he is eligible; there will be some who don't - some didn't vote for Mays or Aaron - but nobody who knows anything about baseball will not vote for him. The absence of Bert Blyleven from the HOF, however, proves that there are quite a few voters who know nothing about baseball. >>
<< <i>The backers of the philosophies of "no titles, or "can't hit when it counts" must not turn the other cheek when Biggio is brought up. >>
This is substantially the same group I was referring to when I said "voters who know nothing about baseball". Even so, I do not think that the HOF voters are THAT ignorant that they will not put Biggio in; as ridiculous as it is that Blyleven is not in, it would just be absurd if Biggio did not get in.
When you can count on one hand the 2nd basemen who were superior over the last 50 years it is a no brainer. Probably a good reason why the one with no brains here is arguing.
-- Yogi Berra
While he surely is among the game's premier second basemen, the fact that he never dominated any season he played in will cost him many votes. I can see him getting in around year 5, though.
Yes and your allknowing. STFU.
Mark Mulder rookies
Chipper Jones rookies
Orlando Cabrera rookies
Lawrence Taylor
Sam Huff
Lavar Arrington
NY Giants
NY Yankees
NJ Nets
NJ Devils
1950s-1960s Topps NY Giants Team cards
Looking for Topps rookies as well.
References:
GregM13
VintageJeff
He's not better than Rod Carew; you lost me there.
From Baseball Reference.com ----
Similar batters
Roberto Alomar (862)
Joe Morgan (838) *
Robin Yount (829) *
Lou Whitaker (822)
Ryne Sandberg (802) *
Vada Pinson (778)
Charlie Gehringer (773) *
Paul Molitor (760) *
Barry Larkin (753)
Alan Trammell (751)
Similar Batters through Age 39
Compare Stats
Joe Morgan (833) *
Paul Molitor (795) *
Charlie Gehringer (773) *
Cal Ripken (751)
Brooks Robinson (741) *
George Brett (730) *
Rickey Henderson (728)
Barry Larkin (717)
Steve Finley (712)
Rusty Staub (707)
Erik
Just how often does a 2nd basemen 'dominate' a season?
Steve
Mark Mulder rookies
Chipper Jones rookies
Orlando Cabrera rookies
Lawrence Taylor
Sam Huff
Lavar Arrington
NY Giants
NY Yankees
NJ Nets
NJ Devils
1950s-1960s Topps NY Giants Team cards
Looking for Topps rookies as well.
References:
GregM13
VintageJeff
<< <i> the fact that he never dominated any season he played in
Just how often does a 2nd basemen 'dominate' a season?
Steve >>
Exactly my point...he won't be a first ballot guy.
What are you adding to this conversation? Nothing other than bitterness, confusion, and unable to stick with one stance.
Back on topic...
Here's an interesting article from Fox Sports Blogs.
Just as an update, Biggio is currently tied with Joe Morgan at 268 HRs and as a side note (and yet another record), has the most leadoff home runs in NL history.
<< <i>First you say he will get in, just "eventually". Then you say that the more you look at the numbers, the "less I become convinced" he will get in. Now you just know he won't be a first ballot guy. >>
Looks like my stance never changed. Please tell me how 'eventually' isn't the same as 'not a first ballot guy'? And I never said he wouldn't make it in, I simply said I become less convinced...never said he wouldn't make it. How are any of those stances different?
<< <i>What are you adding to this conversation? Nothing other than bitterness, confusion, and unable to stick with one stance. >>
Uhm, you're wrong. I know you're a houston fan, so of course anyone criticizing the face of the franchise is going to sting. Sorry, bub.
<< <i>Back on topic...
Here's an interesting article from Fox Sports Blogs.
Just as an update, Biggio is currently tied with Joe Morgan at 268 HRs and as a side note (and yet another record), has the most leadoff home runs in NL history. >>
As far as HR's, I should hope he has the most HRs. This is the easiest era of any to hit home runs, what with the juicing, small parks, dilluted pitching due to overexpansion. He played in an era where 60 HRs in a season was attained more than at any other time in history, and 70+ HRs was done - twice! Don't give me the career HR crap. It's meaningless to compare to past eras.
As far as trying to legitimize this 'article', it's a blog written by a FAN.
Nice try though.
He'll make it in, but surely it won't be a first ballot induction (as I've been saying over and over and over).
<< <i>
<< <i>First you say he will get in, just "eventually". Then you say that the more you look at the numbers, the "less I become convinced" he will get in. Now you just know he won't be a first ballot guy. >>
Looks like my stance never changed. Please tell me how 'eventually' isn't the same as 'not a first ballot guy'? And I never said he wouldn't make it in, I simply said I become less convinced...never said he wouldn't make it. How are any of those stances different? >>
Your words, "the less I become convinced he's going to make the hall." OWNED again.
<< <i>
<< <i>What are you adding to this conversation? Nothing other than bitterness, confusion, and unable to stick with one stance. >>
Uhm, you're wrong. I know you're a houston fan, so of course anyone criticizing the face of the franchise is going to sting. Sorry, bub. >>
There's a difference between constructive criticism and arguing just to argue. Gee, based upon your "arguments", I wonder what you are doing here.
<< <i>
<< <i>Back on topic...
Here's an interesting article from Fox Sports Blogs.
Just as an update, Biggio is currently tied with Joe Morgan at 268 HRs and as a side note (and yet another record), has the most leadoff home runs in NL history. >>
As far as HR's, I should hope he has the most HRs. This is the easiest era of any to hit home runs, what with the juicing, small parks, dilluted pitching due to overexpansion. He played in an era where 60 HRs in a season was attained more than at any other time in history, and 70+ HRs was done - twice! Don't give me the career HR crap. It's meaningless to compare to past eras.
As far as trying to legitimize this 'article', it's a blog written by a FAN.
Nice try though. >>
1) He played OVER 1/2 his career in the Astrodome, the WORST place for homeruns. 2) He never has been a power hitter. Based upon your logic, numerous players should be waaaaaaaaay ahead of him. 3) It's an article which posts FACTS about his career, regardless of who wrote it.
<< <i>He'll make it in, but surely it won't be a first ballot induction (as I've been saying over and over and over). >>
So does this mean you are taking back your earlier snide comment:
<< <i>I know he's been the heart and soul of the Astros organization, but the more I look at his numbers, the less I become convinced he's going to make the hall. >>
<< <i>So does this mean you are taking back your earlier snide comment:
I know he's been the heart and soul of the Astros organization, but the more I look at his numbers, the less I become convinced he's going to make the hall. >>
I don't recall saying that means 'he won't make it'. I said I become less convinced, I never said 'he's not going to make it'?
Are you a mind-reader in your downtime from being a clown for barnum and bailey?
Just last week when i said baseball over expanded you said it had not. guess you just had to disagree then.
Steve
<< <i>
<< <i>So does this mean you are taking back your earlier snide comment:
I know he's been the heart and soul of the Astros organization, but the more I look at his numbers, the less I become convinced he's going to make the hall. >>
I don't recall saying that means 'he won't make it'. I said I become less convinced, I never said 'he's not going to make it'?
Are you a mind-reader in your downtime from being a clown for barnum and bailey? >>
Again with the attempted insults. Can you not have a civilized discussion without them? I mean, is it really that hard for you?
Anyways...
Please elaborate what you meant by this then:
<< <i>I know he's been the heart and soul of the Astros organization, but the more I look at his numbers, the less I become convinced he's going to make the hall. >>
"the less I become convinced he's going to make the hall." means exactly what??
<< <i>I don't recall saying that means 'he won't make it'. I said I become less convinced, I never said 'he's not going to make it'?
Are you a mind-reader in your downtime from being a clown for barnum and bailey? >>
Again with the attempted insults. Can you not have a civilized discussion without them? I mean, is it really that hard for you?
Anyways...
Please elaborate what you meant by this then:
<< <i>I know he's been the heart and soul of the Astros organization, but the more I look at his numbers, the less I become convinced he's going to make the hall. >>
"the less I become convinced he's going to make the hall." means exactly what??
Why is that so difficult for you to understand? I don't recall every saying he wasn't going to make it.
Damn it must suck being you.
<< <i>Means that I lean more and more to the 'not going to make it' camp, but I haven't been swayed completely over.
Why is that so difficult for you to understand? I don't recall every saying he wasn't going to make it.
Damn it must suck being you. >>
But wait, you just said earlier today, "He'll make it in, but surely it won't be a first ballot induction (as I've been saying over and over and over)."
Which is it? Within just five hours, you completely changed your tune. He'll make it in or you aren't too sure and you are leaning that he will not make it in? You can't have your cake and eat it too.
Owned again and again and again and again...
Mark Mulder rookies
Chipper Jones rookies
Orlando Cabrera rookies
Lawrence Taylor
Sam Huff
Lavar Arrington
NY Giants
NY Yankees
NJ Nets
NJ Devils
1950s-1960s Topps NY Giants Team cards
Looking for Topps rookies as well.
References:
GregM13
VintageJeff
<< <i>He hasn't decided. lol >>
Well part of me says he will make it in, without a doubt.
Another part of me says that I'm leaning more and more towards him not making it.
John Kerry would be so proud of his flip-flopping
For someone who dislikes my views and posts so much, you sure do spend a lot of time and energy waiting breathlessly for my reply.
I first said he'd be in for sure, but not on a first ballot. Then I said the more I looked at his numbers, the less sure I was. At no time did I ever say he WASN'T going to make it.
How hard is it for you to understand this?
<< <i>damn stown, obssess much?
For someone who dislikes my views and posts so much, you sure do spend a lot of time and energy waiting breathlessly for my reply.
I first said he'd be in for sure, but not on a first ballot. Then I said the more I looked at his numbers, the less sure I was. At no time did I ever say he WASN'T going to make it.
How hard is it for you to understand this? >>
And then you went on to say he would get in, again.
Then you changed your stance again, saying he may not, again.
Flip-flop... Flip-flop...
PS - I just like exposing and owning you again and again and again
you been waiting long? 5 minutes after I post you're there?
You need a lady, or a hobby. Hanging around a forum all day waiting for me shows how miserable your existence is.
As far as 'owning' me, you continue to say that, but what have you 'owned'?
I never changed my stance, no matter what you want to say.
Have the CU mods contacted you yet?
<< <i>stown-
you been waiting long? 5 minutes after I post you're there?
You need a lady, or a hobby. Hanging around a forum all day waiting for me shows how miserable your existence is. >>
Attempted insults will get you nowhere in life. I just so happened to log on the same time you had just posted.
<< <i>As far as 'owning' me, you continue to say that, but what have you 'owned'? >>
Oh that's quite obvious, axtell. Not just to me but the entire CU community as well. I would go on and on about all of the topics and instances but I don't want to derail this thread anymore than you already have.
<< <i>I never changed my stance, no matter what you want to say. >>
No, you never changed your stance...
"He will eventually get in"
" the less I become convinced he's going to make the hall"
"As I said from the get go, he will likely make it, but a first ballot guy? That ain't happening. While he surely is among the game's premier second basemen, the fact that he never dominated any season he played in will cost him many votes. I can see him getting in around year 5, though."
"never said he wouldn't make it. "
"He'll make it in,"
"Means that I lean more and more to the 'not going to make it' camp, but I haven't been swayed completely over."
<< <i>Have the CU mods contacted you yet? >>
Nope but if they do, you will be contacted by the CU mods shortly thereafter
" the less I become convinced he's going to make the hall" <- Or maybe not
"As I said from the get go, he will likely make it, but a first ballot guy? That ain't happening. While he surely is among the game's premier second basemen, the fact that he never dominated any season he played in will cost him many votes. I can see him getting in around year 5, though." <-Mosy likely will be his 2nd year of eligibility
"never said he wouldn't make it. " <- So the opposite is he will?
"He'll make it in," <- He will be in
"Means that I lean more and more to the 'not going to make it' camp, but I haven't been swayed completely over." <- Now more likely he will not.
These are your quotes, in order no less.
No, you never changed your stance.
<< <i>Craig Biggio
Houston Astros Second Baseman
For more than a decade, Houston Astros star Craig Biggio has supported the Sunshine Kids Foundation. His unselfish commitment has featured numerous contributions to the foundation, including a pool table for the game room, Jungle Gym and a party deck which is used for activities for the kids at the Sunshine Kids house.
Every year Craig hosts the annual Biggio Party at Astros Field for the Sunshine Kids. This event is the always the highlight of the year and gives the children the opportunity to play baseball with Craig and his Astros teammates.
In addition, Craig hosts an annual golf tournament that benefits the Foundation. The Sunshine Kids Celebrity Golf Classic has served as one of the major fundraisers in the greater Houston area and over the years has raised more than $1 million for the Foundation.
As the National Spokesperson for The Sunshine Kids Foundation, Craig often visits the Sunshine Kids house and is regularly seen by national sports audiences wearing the Sunshine Kids pin on his baseball cap. >>
<< <i>
No, you never changed your stance. >>
Thank you for finally noticing. So I went from saying he'll get in, to doing some reading and having questions, to back on saying he will.
I never said 'he won't get in' to 'he will get in'. That would be changing my mind.
You talk about my mancrush on Arod, your love affair with Biggio is amazing! Are you preggo with his kid or something?
<< <i>
<< <i>
No, you never changed your stance. >>
Thank you for finally noticing. So I went from saying he'll get in, to doing some reading and having questions, to back on saying he will.
I never said 'he won't get in' to 'he will get in'. That would be changing my mind.
You talk about my mancrush on Arod, your love affair with Biggio is amazing! Are you preggo with his kid or something? >>
And then back to saying he probably won't. Geez, ax, can't you just stick with one story for a change?
<< <i>I never changed my stance, no matter what you want to say. >>
"He will eventually get in" <- It will happen
" the less I become convinced he's going to make the hall" <- Or maybe not
"As I said from the get go, he will likely make it, but a first ballot guy? That ain't happening. While he surely is among the game's premier second basemen, the fact that he never dominated any season he played in will cost him many votes. I can see him getting in around year 5, though." <-Mosy likely will be his 2nd year of eligibility
"never said he wouldn't make it. " <- So the opposite is he will?
"He'll make it in," <- He will be in
"Means that I lean more and more to the 'not going to make it' camp, but I haven't been swayed completely over." <- Now more likely he will not.
These are your quotes, in order no less.
No, you never changed your stance.
So you've never changed your mind about anything, ever?
If you haven't, it just goes to show what an ignorant tool you truly are.
<< <i>Stown-
So you've never changed your mind about anything, ever?
If you haven't, it just goes to show what an ignorant tool you truly are. >>
Again with the attempted insults, will you ever learn?
Anyways...
I have changed my mind numerous times in my life. Having said that, I don't flip-flop several times in one day and deny that I'm doing so, which is what you just admitted to doing (or at least the closest you ever will admit to being wrong).
"I never changed my stance, no matter what you want to say."
Owned again and again and again and again.....