Options
The crackout game has another winner
partagas
Posts: 2,056 ✭✭✭
I can't find the original thread I created about the subject coin. We went round and round. And yes no questions asked, it is the same coin.
1866 NGC MS65 Seated Quarter from the February Goldberg auction, that sold for $5k.
Goldberg 1866 MS65 25c
It soon after ended up in David Lawrence's inventory and was stripped of its skin and became an MS66 washed out widget.
Well it sat in David Lawrence's inventory and didn't sell. They where asking around $8k for it.
So it was put in the most recent Heritage Auction and was just sold for $11.5k.
Heritage 1866 MS66 25c
1866 NGC MS65 Seated Quarter from the February Goldberg auction, that sold for $5k.
Goldberg 1866 MS65 25c
It soon after ended up in David Lawrence's inventory and was stripped of its skin and became an MS66 washed out widget.
Well it sat in David Lawrence's inventory and didn't sell. They where asking around $8k for it.
So it was put in the most recent Heritage Auction and was just sold for $11.5k.
Heritage 1866 MS66 25c
If I say something in the woods, and my wife isn't around. Am I still wrong?
0
Comments
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Looks to be the same coin. Great example of "before and after".
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
A coin from 1866 should not look like it was made yesterday
We can't protect every coin. The idiots will always take their toll. All the more reason to carefully choose the coins that go into your collection. Those are the coins you can protect.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>I wonder if that was yet another piece rewarded by NGC after being a helpless victim of the NCS curators, or just your average idiot with a jar of Jeweluster? >>
That's a good question. I would hope that that was an amateur job, and not something that NCS would do. Sadly, if that coin were cracked and NOT dipped, it probably would have received a 66 anyway.
Still, with all those hairlines, 66 appears way too generous.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
If you're referring to the lines that run from 10 to 4 o'clock, those are die striations. You'll see them on all (or virtually all) mint state 1866 quarters.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Who stripped it? David Lawrence?
As long as the TPG and buyers reward this activity it will continue.
<< <i>I wish the idiot graders at the top tier grading services wouldn't reward this kind of behavior. >>
Exactly! I thought the TPG's were supposed to be friends of the collector.
wish I could say the same about the second set of photos.
The worst part about this is the coin, was such a gem. Just try and find another 66 quarter with a full shield strike on the reverse, and original surfaces.
This was an early die state, which had just started showing weakness on the obverse stars.
Russ, NCNE
The second is a piece or crap!!!!!!!!!!!
Get a ROPE!!!!!!!!
Because it's more profitable to offer people what they want rather than what they should want.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
I will say that in photographing coins, I can make the same coin look like two different coins. Just recently, I was imaging a dime that had light golden peripheral toning and when I pulled the picture up on the computer that area looked completely black! You would not have believed that they were the same coin. I adjusted my camera settings and retook the picture until I made the picture an accurate representation of the coin.
<< <i>Maybe I am missing something, but I can't see why this coin (assuming its the same coin) needed a dip. >>
It didn't need a dip. PCGS and NGC rewards the dippers with higher grades and greedy dealers know this. They don't care about the hobby or the coins. They only care about the bottom line.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>PCGS and NGC rewards the dippers with higher grades and greedy dealers know this. They don't care about the hobby or the coins. They only care about the bottom line. >>
That "bottom line" only exists because collectors are buying the coins.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>
<< <i>PCGS and NGC rewards the dippers with higher grades and greedy dealers know this. They don't care about the hobby or the coins. They only care about the bottom line. >>
That "bottom line" only exists because collectors are buying the coins.
Russ, NCNE >>
New and ignorant collectors with more money that brains that think "shiny" is best. Yes, Russ, there is plenty of blame to go around.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>A coin like this is why I am on a mission to tell the world not to buy sightUNSEEN from auctions.
While everyone here may smart enough not to, too many people do not know any better.
Maybe I am missing something, but I can't see why this coin (assuming its the same coin) needed a dip. >>
What you said Laura
Snake oil salesmen used the same logic. Unfortunately for them, the uneducated masses ultimately learned their lesson.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
What's the solution? Perhaps a "OS" on a holder signifying original surfaces? A correction in grading policies that reward shiny coins with higher grades? Collectors just keeping originally toned coins away from dipping hoping that the market will eventually catch up?
Just wondering...Mike
Make people aware of what sometimes happens to nice originals, and show the end results. Trying to influence them to buy original and shun the shiny crap.
The reason I am posting and tracking this coin is to help make others (lurkers, newb's) who may not know about this practice aware. Pay up for originality and don't buy stripped crap. As all you do is reward the dippers.
I like the original surfaces tag, but I don't know how feasible that is. It is simply easiar to pay for eye appealing coins, and pass on those that have been conserved.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
<< <i>I'm surprised that depth of toning could be removed without completely destroying the luster.
Russ, NCNE >>
Don't foget that first pic is from Goldbergs. Their pics tend to exaggerate toning.
<< <i>Don't foget that first pic is from Goldbergs. Their pics tend to exaggerate toning. >>
I wonder what a Bondman picture would have looked like.
<< <i>Just wondering...Mike >>
Mike, my "solution" would be to have the grading companies penalize, rather than reward the dipping and "conversation" of coins. >>
Coins can talk? I know I used to wonder, "if only this coin could talk and say where it's been..."
Jonathan
I know the culprit after NCS is NGC, but... the blame or the shame goes to the submitter of the coin.
It's like a make-over and stupid people with lot's of spending power think they are getting something for their buck. They are ............ a real BANG ( now define BANG)
In my younger days, to get banged was to get screwed. Someone got banged real good.
I'd feel sorry for them, but they obviously don't need my pity. They have enough money to buy professional help.
Practice makes perfect & nobody is perfect. So, practice being nobody and be perfect !
I do. Most of the time I'm pleased with the results.
Does that mean I approve of what was done to the 1866 quarter? Of course not. For that matter, I don't even know if NCS was responsible for that coin.
When I send a coin to NCS, it has a problem that I don't know how to solve myself. Better to pay a pro to do the job right than to risk messing up the coin myself.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
and I still have no pity for a guy that can spend that kind of money on a coin that is dipped and stripped. NCS or not
Joe
Practice makes perfect & nobody is perfect. So, practice being nobody and be perfect !
The depth of the rim matches, and the tiny spot on the right breast matches.
The spot on the right forearm doesn't match, none of the light scratches in the obverse field match,
and the major spot to the right and below of the last 6 has evaporated.
These are just some of the problems I have with matching up these two coins.
The 3rd and 4th stars on the left appear a little stronger than on the right.
I don't know though....I'll leave this to you experts.
There are less then 18 coins graded 65 or higher. This is a rare early die state. Almost all seated 1866 quarters have shield weakness on the reverse due to die damage. As all coins where struck from the same dies.
Some one did an overlay and it matched.
1860 $
The mark on the Dollars face his hidden well in this shot. But it is similiar in depth as the Heritage pics.
Three different coins?
CG
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Maybe. Could be that the dipped out six was black, corroded and discovered in the ruins of a torched outhouse. In that case, who could complain? Except maybe the Fatman...
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>WHO sends coins to NCS ?
I do. Most of the time I'm pleased with the results. >>
Ditto, and ditto. In fact I just got a 1962 proof Frankie back today with which they did a wonderful job. They reduced an enormous reverse spot to barely a whisper without any decrease in mirror depth.
Russ, NCNE