POLL: Should YN's be treated "specially" when it comes to numismatics?

p8nt · October 10, 2005 8:52AM

I was reading and someone mentioned that "if you let the dealer know you are a YN from the boards he may give you a discount".. It got me thinking.. Should YN's be treated "specially" when it comes to numismatics?

I would like to hear what you have to say.

Here are some things to think about:
• Should YN's get discounts? / Should higher prices be paid when a YN is selling?
• Is it fair to treat someone specially in some cases and not others?
• If two people (1 YN and one adult) are selling the same thing for the same price, whose would you buy?
• Will you help a YN out as much as you can in some cases? (Possibly that don't involve money?)
• YN's are in the hobby just like us. They don't get any breaks.

relayer · October 10, 2005 9:00AM

Actually when I was a kid collecting, nobody ever gave me a free coin (or a free anything for that matter).

My parents and relatives would give me money for Birthdays, etc and I got an allowance (and did chores) but I had to work for extra money with my paper route or selling magazines door-to-door

It turns out that when you grow up, nobody gives you anything. It's better to learn that you have to earn things now so you can adjust to reality later in life.

pharmer · October 10, 2005 9:03AM

Can't think of another area of collecting that treats collectors under a certain age differently, although it may occur. I think the notion occurs here because of the considerate nature of the people here, and the often exorbitant values of that which is being collected. Didn't get treated special as a kid, didn't expect it either. Would I have liked a lower price in return for my hard work getting born later than someone else who wanted the same coin? You bet.

RKKay · October 10, 2005 9:04AM

YNs should be treated specially in that they should be mentored and taught what to expect in the industry. They should be encouraged to learn by both experience and by asking questions. Dealers should make sure to teach when at all possible, such as showing YNs what pitfalls to avoid. They should not be treated as "fair game" solely because they are part of the numismatic realm.

LindeDad · October 10, 2005 9:05AM

Before Russ says it. There just Fresh Meat.
Welcome them abourd, teach them, and let them learn like the rest of us. You have to know what your looking at and buying to get a good deal. Otherwise you can be stupid and waste your money like everyone else.

MrEureka · October 10, 2005 9:07AM

I think that somebody that treats adults poorly should treat YN's specially.

RKKay · October 10, 2005 9:08AM

<< I think that somebody that treats adults poorly should treat YN's specially. >>

WTCG · October 10, 2005 9:09AM

It really depends on the YN, but usually I allow a little more forgiveness towards a YN than I do an adult. That is especially true when it comes to the rules of protocol.

21Walker · October 10, 2005 9:10AM

1. Should YN's get discounts
Yes to a certain extent (helps with interest in the hobby, they won't be YN foever)

2. Should higher prices be paid when a YN is selling?
No, It will give a false sense of the hobby....better they learn to grade, access the value and expect nothing more.

3. Is it fair to treat someone specially in some cases and not others?
See answer 1

4. If two people (1 YN and one adult) are selling the same thing for the same price, whose would you buy?
Which ever appeals to me the best at the right price.

5. Will you help a YN out as much as you can in some cases? (Possibly that don't involve money?)
Yes!

6. YN's are in the hobby just like us. They don't get any breaks.
Yes they are. However any education we can give them will let them enjoy the hobby more and not raise expectations of overnight fortunes on uneducated purchases/aquisitions...............

Rick (not a YN)

Bochiman · October 10, 2005 9:18AM

<< 
• Should YN's get discounts? / Should higher prices be paid when a YN is selling?
Sometimes, if there is wiggle room because it is good encouragement, but it shouldn't be for all coins and shouldn't be expected/No.....If I am paying for something, then it shouldn't matter if it is young or old.
• Is it fair to treat someone specially in some cases and not others?
Yes, if someone is courteous, I treat them differently (I am not a dealer but when I sell the 1 or 2 things I do sell on ebay, if someone is cool/courteous, then I often try to be more helpful
• If two people (1 YN and one adult) are selling the same thing for the same price, whose would you buy?
Whoever is the most courteous, can get me the item the quickest, and/or who I have established rapport with
• Will you help a YN out as much as you can in some cases? (Possibly that don't involve money?)
Yes, until they come to expect it, or are obnoxious about things.
• YN's are in the hobby just like us. They don't get any breaks. >>

Everyone starts somethere, and numismatics are no different with young people sometimes needing a break.

ziggy29 · October 10, 2005 9:19AM

I can't answer "yes" or "no" categorically.

I think YNs should be encouraged, educated and have mentors take them under their wing to endure their success. I think it's a good gesture to give them some extra consideration once in a while, and if that includes giving away a few inexpensive things to stoke their interest, great!

I don't think it does them a great service to give them one thing after another after another *just* because they're YNs. The generosity on this board to YNs is wonderful, but sometimes I wonder if a few YNs take advantage of the situation and play the YN card to get a lot of free stuff.

I don't think one size fits all here. It's more a matter of experience than age.

Russ · October 10, 2005 9:21AM

I treat YN's with tenderness and understanding just as I do all my fellow human beings.

Russ, NCNE

RKKay · October 10, 2005 9:22AM

<< I treat YN's with tenderness and understanding just as I do all my fellow human beings.

Russ, NCNE >>

ziggy29 · October 10, 2005 9:25AM

<< I treat YN's with tenderness and understanding just as I do all my fellow human beings.

Russ, NCNE >>

With all the tenderness of.....fresh meat.

Fairlaneman · October 10, 2005 10:13AM

Bend the rules a little bit for them. Instead of 3 strikes and your out maybe give them a full inning.

Ken

RonManola2005 · October 10, 2005 10:15AM

I am a YN and I voted no. Other than making accomodations about payment methods I think they should be treated alike.
RonManola2005

nwcs · October 10, 2005 10:18AM

I also never got anything when I was a YN but I do think that some YNs should be given consideration, especially if they are not from middle and up income families.

RayJay · October 10, 2005 10:24AM

Yes...K Y

dthigpen · October 10, 2005 10:25AM

Other than holding their hands when needed and steering them in the right direction, no, they shouldn't, at least when it comes to pricing - it gives them a false sense of entitlement. GoldCoinLover is a perfect example of why they shouldn't be treated specially.

Pistareen · October 10, 2005 10:26AM

Andy's post is in the right spirit. A dealer who is respectful, considerate, and enjoys teaching about coins to potential clients has no reason to treat a YN differently.

I was a YN for over a decade and got a lot of special consideration -- MrEureka and Julian were two of the dealers who were always most considerate to me. Julian let me rifle through his case to see anything I wanted, knowing full well I couldn't afford it, because he enjoyed helping me learn something. Of course, I think he'd do that with anyone regardless of age.

Did people ever cut me a break because I was a kid? Maybe for awhile. But I enjoyed being respected as an equal much more than being catered to because I was cute (yes, once upon a time).

My advice to YNs: don't expect a break or special treatment, instead earn the respect of others who treat you as an equal. And if you need below market prices or highly unusual payment terms, you're probably collecting in the wrong field. Being sincerely interested and inquisitive will probably get more respect (and free education) in the long run than looking for special treatment will. Bring a little bit of knowledge to the table and an adult numismatist who recognizes the work you've done on your own is likely to repay your interest and curiosity with as much information and consideration as you can handle.

ROBERTB · October 10, 2005 10:26AM

No. Not because I'm heartless, but instead because I want them to understand how things work. I don't want to be remembered as the guy who gave them false impressions and sugar coated reality. I'll teach anyone anything about numismatics, but only friends get discounts.

messydesk · October 10, 2005 11:33AM

YNs should be treated courteously as should everyone else. They should be nurtured as any other newcomer to the hobby.

AACoinCo · October 10, 2005 11:46AM

AACoinCo · October 10, 2005 11:54AM

YN's should be taken care off in a manner befitting your own child or grandchild. I often sell to YN's at cost and will often give them coins. I often keep coins that are of null value behind the table to give to kids who visit me at a show or in my shop and my best give away is a free loupe for kids. I love the expression on their faces and it is a joy seeing them on the next visit when they tell me what they have learned. Most dealers i know do somting similar and just not for YN's but for most kids. The one grip i have especially duing the ANA's treasure Trivia is the adults who trying to horn in on the action as i give siver dimes or some such away to all kids who visit the table. Ed Kuszmar from the Baltimore Coin Show always does a great job getting the dealers to clean out their low priced junk for the YN's. Each one get's a bag full of goodies when they come into the bourse.

susanlynn9 · October 10, 2005 12:41PM

In my opinion, YN's are the future of our hobby and therefore should be given more leeway as far as questions go. As hard as it is to answer the same common questions over and over, these questions are all brand new to YN's (and even some older collectors who just got started). Just my 2 cents worth.

NumisOxide · October 10, 2005 1:25PM

<< I am a YN and I voted no. Other than making accomodations about payment methods I think they should be treated alike.
RonManola2005 >>

I agree with you. I'm a YN too and I don't expect to be treated "specially" either.

pharmer · October 10, 2005 1:34PM

Well prepared and presented poll, p8nt. You and the other YN's who have responded have the greatest credibility on this IMO.

BillJones · October 10, 2005 11:32PM

I voted “yes” but with reservations. Dealers should not rip kids off, and they should work with them when they show an interest. BUT I have reservations about giving kids free gifts of anything but books and albums.

One of the things that really gets me is this attitude that kids should be given coins for nothing. I think that they should have to put out some effort to earn them.

Years ago a regional club that I belonged to asked dealers to donate to YN activities that they sponsored. They would then give these coins to the kids gratis.

Sure enough just as soon as the YN program was over, the kids would bee line it to the bourse to sell what they had been given to the dealers. That really irritated me. The kids were just there to get “free money.” They had no interest in what they received, and probably didn’t advance much in hobby from the meeting.

A far better program would be to have YNs pass a test or do something to earn an award. That way they would have earned the prize and would appreciate it more.

Steve27 · October 10, 2005 11:42PM

"Should YN's be treated "specially" when it comes to numismatics?"

Only until they're addicted.

carl · October 10, 2005 11:51PM

Odd that no one mentioned the age group for YN's. I really think that makes a difference in a YN treatment in dealing with coins. I've noticed at coins shows, flea markets, yard and garage sales, etc that the younger a kid is the more they are given special treatments and free or cheap stuff. Maybe that's because it appears the younger a kid is the more they appreaciate things. I've had about 25 giveaways on this forum and most for YN's because they appreciate free stuff a lot more than any adult I've ever met. Lucky to get a thank you from an adult. Again it depends on the age of even a YN. As they approach adulthood they become to muck like us unfortunately. I've seen dealers give YN's free stuff at coin shows and there faces light up like it was Christmas.
Yes I think YN's should be given special attention and treatment since they are the future of this hobby and there must be others to carry on when we old folks are all gone.

Longacre · October 10, 2005 11:53PM

Are YN's a Constitutionally protected class?

lonelyp · October 11, 2005 12:03AM

<< In my opinion, YN's are the future of our hobby and therefore should be given more leeway as far as questions go. As hard as it is to answer the same common questions over and over, these questions are all brand new to YN's (and even some older collectors who just got started). Just my 2 cents worth.

>>

Thank you for this.
As a novise collector (but an old fart), I needed that.

pharmer · October 11, 2005 12:05AM

The giveaway scenario presented above sounds like it was done to elicit responses which could be judged by the giver. Depending on the response, they may or may not be "muck like us"? Give me a break. The YN's who have responded all say they don't want to be treated special. Is there any chance their opinions will be considered? Any chance you can consider their feelings and not create a scenario where you can decide to be disappointed in the response? A quiet, anonymous gift might be more in the spirit of giving, rather than a public "see what I did and all I got was..." gripe.

susanlynn9 · October 11, 2005 12:27AM

When I posted above, I was not thinking about the giveaways and "free stuff". I like to offer contests and such that are more geared to newer collectors and YNs, but I try to shy away from outright giveaways. I believe that prizes are appreciated more if they're earned. Considering just the YNs for a moment, I think it's important to for them to learn how to earn what they want and that there is a great reward in winning something based on merit.

Shamika · October 11, 2005 1:17AM

<< • Will you help a YN out as much as you can in some cases? (Possibly that don't involve money?) >>

While I tend to believe we should all help numismatists, young and old, I also believe YN's tend to be more niave so I would be more liberal with my knowledge.

michael · October 11, 2005 1:20AM

YNs should be treated specially in that they should be mentored and taught what to expect in the industry. They should be encouraged to learn by both experience and by asking questions. Dealers should make sure to teach when at all possible, such as showing YNs what pitfalls to avoid. They should not be treated as "fair game" solely because they are part of the numismatic realm.

-------------------------
Rick Kay
Specializing in US Patterns
Always buying Large FE patterns (J-163 to 174a)

Table ?226? FUN Show
Table 246 April 2006 ANA - Atlanta

i could not have said it better rick kay

Millertime · October 11, 2005 1:43AM

I think YN's should be encouraged by dealers even if it mean giving them a discount, but I don't think every YN should be treated the same. If a YN is looking at a coin for $20 (and is excited about it) and pulls all these crumpled dollar bills and quarters out of his pocket to buy it. How do you think think he will feel when the dealer tells him to take 5 dollars and put it back in his pocket. That dealer just made this kid's day (and his dad's too) for a lousy 5 bucks. However, if you have another kid looking at the same coin and starts whining about the cost and asking the dealer if he can have it I don't think that kid should be treaded specially.

At one coin show one of the dealers gave my son a million dollar bill. It probaby cost him a nickel but it's one of my son's favorite things and he'll always remember it. At another table a dealer had a junk bin of darkside coins priced at 5 for a dollar, after my son picked out 5 he wanted the gentleman told my son to pick one more. My son started searching for an Australian coin so the gentleman and his wife started looking through all these coins trying to find a free Australian coin for him. Then there's the dealers that tell the kids to move out of the way and don't touch anything. Which dealer do you think I'll visit?

Millertime

Steve27 · October 11, 2005 1:50AM

"Lucky to get a thank you from an adult."

Carl, send me something nice and I'll be sure to send you a big thank you.

Sparkle · October 12, 2005 12:24AM

Just a few thoughts this rainy morning. In general, the numismatic community seems exceptionally warm towards YN’s. Many dealers and collectors seem enthusiastic about reaching out to young collectors and are generous with their time. It’s one of the most marvelous things about this hobby.

It’s important to remember that the term “YN” can refer to a 5-year-old who is just starting out, as well as to very knowledgeable young adult collectors up through college age who still happen to fall within the ANA’s YN definition, as well as everyone in between. It’s just not possible to interact in the same manner with every young collector just on the basis of their youth. Divining where a given YN falls on the knowledge/maturity spectrum, within a few minutes of their arrival at a dealer’s table, is an art. It’s probably a little harder doing this with kids than with adults because of the maturity factor. For the most part, they are not going to have the social skills that one might expect from an adult.

Most young people respond well to being treated in the most adult manner possible. Several YN’s have expressed as much on this thread. However, since many kids do not have the opportunity to practice interacting with adults beyond their own families, neighbors, or teachers, they need to be cut a little slack as their skills develop. This is true with both social and business protocols. Expect them to make mistakes. Narrate the transaction to them as you’re doing it. Teach them your best business practices. Understanding how to behave at a dealer’s table takes time and experience; it is not the same as buying things at the grocery store.

At the end of the day, as mature as some YN’s may seem to be, they are not adults. Regarding recent problems on this board with a poster named GCL, there was a point at which some people (who initially had tried to help in a generous and wholehearted manner) lost track of that. There was a point at which constructive interaction was no longer possible and things got worse. Obviously this is a very extreme case, but as a community I think we could have done better with GCL. The plug should have been pulled much sooner, both in the spirit of helping to create a safety net around the YN’s and to preserve a more professional yet neighborly vibe on these boards.

The most important thing an adult numismatist can do is to model integrity, honesty, and fairness with the YN’s they encounter. Let’s bring them up right. To my eye, the golden rule should be the baseline. Courtesy goes a long way. If you’re a warm person, be warm. If you’re not, try to be patient. If there’s time or inclination for a little teaching, or explaining, or helping a YN as they make their way through the many aspects of the hobby, that’s wonderful. If not, just be courteous and fair. If you like to give stuff out, that’s great. If you’d rather give them a little homework and have them come back and see you at the next show and share what they learned, that’s good too. Whatever works for you. At the end of the day, whether you’re the biggest dealer or the youngest collector, it’s character and little kindnesses that are remembered long after the coin is gone.

susanlynn9 · October 12, 2005 12:30AM

Sparkle...very well said!!!

RegistryCoin · October 12, 2005 12:31AM

<< YNs should be treated specially in that they should be mentored and taught what to expect in the industry. They should be encouraged to learn by both experience and by asking questions. Dealers should make sure to teach when at all possible, such as showing YNs what pitfalls to avoid. They should not be treated as "fair game" solely because they are part of the numismatic realm. >>

museumcoin · January 7, 2006 7:25AM

From my experience as a YN, I remember the dealers who were nice to me (there were many), just as I remember the dealers who were real jerks (yep, a few of them, too).

I think that there are no hobbies out there that are as friendly, supportive, and overall wonderful to young collectors than numismatics. I "expired" as a YN in 1998, but the contacts that I made through programs from CSNS, ANA, PCGS, etc. formed a base that I could look to during college for work that helped pay for my undergrad degree and then law school. I'm incredibly grateful for the hobby and for the dealers and collectors who treated me "specially" by giving me deals, attention, and advice.

Take a look at the young people involved in the industry today. A lot of us were involved 5, 10, 15 years ago.

A friendly reminder that the YN that you're dealing with today could be a future dealer, grader, etc. in a few years. Especially when it takes no extra effort to treat YN's "specially", I say why not???

LucyBop · January 7, 2006 7:31AM

treat em like Royalty, especially if they are a YN Hepkitty!

p8nt · June 29, 2006 5:00AM

The topic fits right now and there are lots of new people

kiyote · June 29, 2006 5:04AM

Crush them early, crush them hard. Let's weed out the wanna-be YNs. Better yet, let's point them to some "platinum plated" Westward Journey nickels and really get them out of collecting.

Kids should be playing video games and uploading content to youtube, not coin collecting.

p8nt · June 29, 2006 5:16AM

<< Crush them early, crush them hard. Let's weed out the wanna-be YNs. Better yet, let's point them to some "platinum plated" Westward Journey nickels and really get them out of collecting.

Kids should be playing video games and uploading content to youtube, not coin collecting. >>

You're sick!

HTubbs · June 30, 2006 3:43AM

<< Crush them early, crush them hard. Let's weed out the wanna-be YNs. Better yet, let's point them to some "platinum plated" Westward Journey nickels and really get them out of collecting.

Kids should be playing video games and uploading content to youtube, not coin collecting. >>

What the heck? I certainly hope you're joking

ziggy29 · June 30, 2006 3:48AM

I don't have a problem with the occasional giveaways, discounts and stuff, but I don't think they should become so commonplace that YNs come to *expect* special treatment.

One area I do think we should bend over backwards for YNs is in numismatic education. Talk to 'em, share experiences, show them some coins and let them read a lot of books. Help them learn how to evaluate coins and how not to get ripped off. But I don't approve of a culture where someone expects to get a $20 coin for $10 just because it's for a YN. In other words, the best way to specifically cater to YNs is to nurture their interest in numismatics.

pharmer · June 30, 2006 3:54AM

<< Can't think of another area of collecting that treats collectors under a certain age differently, although it may occur. I think the notion occurs here because of the considerate nature of the people here, and the often exorbitant values of that which is being collected. Didn't get treated special as a kid, didn't expect it either. Would I have liked a lower price in return for my hard work getting born later than someone else who wanted the same coin? You bet. >>

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Weather11am · June 30, 2006 3:57AM

I really like it when dealers educate me. I think the education is far better than any discount!

ElKevvo · June 30, 2006 4:20AM

My daughter really likes going to coin shows because a lot of the dealers are nice to her. She is only 5 and has the attention span of a mouse but she likes her collection and really treasures some pieces like the proof Congress $ she recently won in a forum giveaway (thanks ER!). I spend time with her looking at her State Quarter collection and when dealers give her one or two at a show I know it is an investment in the future of Numismatics. It might not pay off as with any investment but I appreciate it and she does too as she cannot wait to get home and put it in her PNG boards.

When she gets older, should she be given deals? Not necessarily but I would hope that dealers would also take a moment to work with her and help her learn more if they have the time. My knowledge is somewhat limited I have to admit!

Just a couple of thoughts...

K

POLL: Should YN's be treated "specially" when it comes to numismatics?

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POLL: Should YN's be treated &quot;specially&quot; when it comes to numismatics?

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POLL: Should YN's be treated "specially" when it comes to numismatics?