RUSS...Please read....1974P Kennedy DDO?

joecheck · June 27, 2006 10:06AM

I found a Kennedy, from the six bank rolls that I picked up a couple of weeks ago, that I believe has a double eye. There appears to be seperation, so I don't think it's mechanical doubling. I know there are 1974D DDO's, but are there any 1974P DDO's?

We have some excellent Kennedy experts on this forum (Russ for one

). Any help would be appreciated!

1974P Kennedy Doubled Eye

Seperation?

joecheck · June 27, 2006 12:31PM

Anyone?!?

19Lyds · June 27, 2006 12:42PM

I couldn't say for sure but I have seen similar things on IKE dollars. Kinda makes you wonder what the heck happened with that particular coin at that particular time.

Coneca does not appear to have any reference for that specific type of doubling but there is a 1974P listed.

Check it out here.

joecheck · June 27, 2006 12:44PM

I know. I can find a 1974P DDR and a 1974D DDO but not anything on a 1974P DDO.

joecheck · June 27, 2006 10:26PM

Still no takers?!?

19Lyds · June 27, 2006 10:35PM

PM Russ............

joecheck · June 27, 2006 10:40PM

I edited the title!

seanq · June 28, 2006 1:55AM

Can you zoom out a bit and show the area in context, I can't even tell what I'm looking at. My first thought is "die abrasion doubling" which usually traces the larger design elements on a coin. Several years ago John Wexler de-listed a slew of Lincoln Cent "doubled vest" and "doubled chin" varieties once the cause was found to be die abrasion.

Sean Reynolds

Russ · June 28, 2006 2:04AM

Nothing in Wiles' book. I would tend to agree with Sean that it's an abraded die. It's pretty common on the earlier Kennedys.

Russ, NCNE

joecheck · June 28, 2006 10:49AM

Thanks for all your help, guys!

19Lyds · June 28, 2006 11:22PM

While on the Coneca site, I could not help but notice the DDR 74D Kennedy listings. Specifically the DDR-001. Are these fairly common?

Edited to add:

Also, what does this stuff mean? "and stars CW from K-1 to K-6"
Stage A: Reverse has strong MDD – EDS Obverse is MDS
Stage B: Reverse has no MDD – MDS Obverse is LDS
Stage C: LDS (unconfirmed)

MDD ?
MDS ?
LDS ? (Not Latter Day Saints)

And where do you start counting the stars at? Specifically "CW from K-1 to K-6"?

eyoung429 · June 28, 2006 11:37PM

<< <i>While on the Coneca site, I could not help but notice the DDR 74D Kennedy listings. Specifically the DDR-001. Are these fairly common?

Edited to add:

Also, what does this stuff mean? "and stars CW from K-1 to K-6"
Stage A: Reverse has strong MDD – EDS Obverse is MDS
Stage B: Reverse has no MDD – MDS Obverse is LDS
Stage C: LDS (unconfirmed)

MDD ?
MDS ?
LDS ? (Not Latter Day Saints)

And where do you start counting the stars at? Specifically "CW from K-1 to K-6"? >>

MDD - Machine die doubling
MDS - Mid Die State
LDS - Late Die State

"CW from K-1 to K-6" Clock-wise from (K-1 = 1 on a clock face) to Center down (K-6 = 6 on a clock face)

Hope this helps!!

seanq · June 29, 2006 12:18AM

<< <i>Also, what does this stuff mean? "and stars CW from K-1 to K-6" >>

CW = clockwise, CCW = counterclockwise

K-1 and K-6 = They refer to locations on a coin as if it were a clock face, with the top of the design at 12:00. So "K-1" would be at 1:00, "K-6" at 6:00. The K stands for Kolit, a collector who created a gage for determining the exact clock position, and so these are sometimes referred to as "Kolit numbers"

<< <i> Stage A: Reverse has strong MDD – EDS Obverse is MDS >>

In addition to maintaining the master listing of varieties, CONECA and James Wiles also track die states or stages. Stage A is the earliest stage.

MDD = Machine Die Doubling, also known as "strike doubling" or "machine doubling". It has a flat shelf-like appearance caused by slight shearing of the coin as it is released from the die. It is often confused with die doubling. Since they are mutually exclusive in cause in some cases (like this one) a coin can exhibit both die doubling and MDD.

<< <i> Stage B: Reverse has no MDD – MDS Obverse is LDS
Stage C: LDS (unconfirmed) >>

VEDS = Very Early Die State
EDS = Early Die State
MDS = Middle Die State
LDS = Late Die State
VLDS = Very Late Die State

These can be determined by looking at die gauges, polishing marks, and deterioration. Typically an EDS or VEDS coin will show the doubling much clearer than a LDS or VLDS coin which has struck thousands of coins or been polished multiple times. Also, because dies are not always replaced in pairs, you can have a MDS obverse die and a LDS reverse die (see Stage B above).

I hope that covered everything, if not ask away.

Sean Reynolds

19Lyds · June 29, 2006 4:21AM

Thanks Guys!

RUSS...Please read....1974P Kennedy DDO?

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