RUSS...Please read....1974P Kennedy DDO?

joecheck

I found a Kennedy, from the six bank rolls that I picked up a couple of weeks ago, that I believe has a double eye. There appears to be seperation, so I don't think it's mechanical doubling. I know there are 1974D DDO's, but are there any 1974P DDO's?

We have some excellent Kennedy experts on this forum (Russ for one). Any help would be appreciated!

1974P Kennedy Doubled Eye


Seperation?

joecheck

Anyone?!?

19Lyds

I couldn't say for sure but I have seen similar things on IKE dollars. Kinda makes you wonder what the heck happened with that particular coin at that particular time.

Coneca does not appear to have any reference for that specific type of doubling but there is a 1974P listed.

Check it out here.

joecheck

I know. I can find a 1974P DDR and a 1974D DDO but not anything on a 1974P DDO.

joecheck

Still no takers?!?

19Lyds

PM Russ............

joecheck

I edited the title!

seanq

Can you zoom out a bit and show the area in context, I can't even tell what I'm looking at. My first thought is "die abrasion doubling" which usually traces the larger design elements on a coin. Several years ago John Wexler de-listed a slew of Lincoln Cent "doubled vest" and "doubled chin" varieties once the cause was found to be die abrasion.


Sean Reynolds

Russ

Nothing in Wiles' book. I would tend to agree with Sean that it's an abraded die. It's pretty common on the earlier Kennedys.

Russ, NCNE

joecheck

Thanks for all your help, guys!

19Lyds

While on the Coneca site, I could not help but notice the DDR 74D Kennedy listings. Specifically the DDR-001. Are these fairly common?

Edited to add:

Also, what does this stuff mean? "and stars CW from K-1 to K-6"
Stage A: Reverse has strong MDD – EDS Obverse is MDS
Stage B: Reverse has no MDD – MDS Obverse is LDS
Stage C: LDS (unconfirmed)

MDD ?
MDS ?
LDS ? (Not Latter Day Saints)

And where do you start counting the stars at? Specifically "CW from K-1 to K-6"?

eyoung429

<< <i>While on the Coneca site, I could not help but notice the DDR 74D Kennedy listings. Specifically the DDR-001. Are these fairly common?

Edited to add:

Also, what does this stuff mean? "and stars CW from K-1 to K-6"
Stage A: Reverse has strong MDD – EDS Obverse is MDS
Stage B: Reverse has no MDD – MDS Obverse is LDS
Stage C: LDS (unconfirmed)

MDD ?
MDS ?
LDS ? (Not Latter Day Saints)

And where do you start counting the stars at? Specifically "CW from K-1 to K-6"? >>



MDD - Machine die doubling
MDS - Mid Die State
LDS - Late Die State

"CW from K-1 to K-6" Clock-wise from (K-1 = 1 on a clock face) to Center down (K-6 = 6 on a clock face)

Hope this helps!!

seanq

<< <i>Also, what does this stuff mean? "and stars CW from K-1 to K-6" >>



CW = clockwise, CCW = counterclockwise

K-1 and K-6 = They refer to locations on a coin as if it were a clock face, with the top of the design at 12:00. So "K-1" would be at 1:00, "K-6" at 6:00. The K stands for Kolit, a collector who created a gage for determining the exact clock position, and so these are sometimes referred to as "Kolit numbers"



<< <i> Stage A: Reverse has strong MDD – EDS Obverse is MDS >>



In addition to maintaining the master listing of varieties, CONECA and James Wiles also track die states or stages. Stage A is the earliest stage.

MDD = Machine Die Doubling, also known as "strike doubling" or "machine doubling". It has a flat shelf-like appearance caused by slight shearing of the coin as it is released from the die. It is often confused with die doubling. Since they are mutually exclusive in cause in some cases (like this one) a coin can exhibit both die doubling and MDD.



<< <i> Stage B: Reverse has no MDD – MDS Obverse is LDS
Stage C: LDS (unconfirmed) >>



VEDS = Very Early Die State
EDS = Early Die State
MDS = Middle Die State
LDS = Late Die State
VLDS = Very Late Die State

These can be determined by looking at die gauges, polishing marks, and deterioration. Typically an EDS or VEDS coin will show the doubling much clearer than a LDS or VLDS coin which has struck thousands of coins or been polished multiple times. Also, because dies are not always replaced in pairs, you can have a MDS obverse die and a LDS reverse die (see Stage B above).

I hope that covered everything, if not ask away.


Sean Reynolds

19Lyds

Thanks Guys!