Using kids for the YN sympathy factor

xphobe · June 22, 2006 5:26AM

This middle-aged guy was bent over a table studying large cents at a show. He walked away, and came back with a kid about twelve - his son. The kid asks to see a 1794 large cent, and without a whole lot of study turns to his dad and says "can I get this one?" The price is $275 but the dad asks if the dealer would take $100 for it since it would be his son's first 18th century coin and "that's all he has to spend". They finally agree on $150 and the dad supplements the kid's contribution with $50 from his own wallet.

Why did this bother me so much? I can't prove anything, but it seemed like the dad was using the kid. Everyone wants to help a YN. This just didn't smell right. My gut feeling is that coin ended up in the dad's collection.

How would you deal with such a situation?

Russ · June 22, 2006 5:28AM

Anybody have a 12 year old I can borrow?

Russ, NCNE

BlindedByEgo · June 22, 2006 5:29AM

9mm in the parking lot

Nah, not really

. I'll give inexprensive freebies to a YN, but as far as I'm concerned, if the kid can't afford a nicer coin, he/she gets no better a deal than any other buyer would get - end column price is age-insensitive.

goose3 · June 22, 2006 5:30AM

8 year olds work better.

Compa · June 22, 2006 5:34AM

I wonder if it is too late to get myself a table and run a kid rental concession at the next coin show?

AceK · June 22, 2006 5:35AM

Nineteen year old daughter works best of all.

lkenefic · June 22, 2006 5:36AM

I've got a six year old missing her two front teeth and she's into Peace Dollars...can anyone give her a break on a '28 Philli???

BillJones · June 22, 2006 5:37AM

Parents use their kids all the time.

Here in Florida while the Terry Shivo (sp) case was going through the courts and demonstrators were picketing the nursing home where her life, such as it was, was sustained. After the court ruled that she should be allowed to die, her feeding tube was removed, which had been used to give her food and water.

The demonstrators were forbidden to come within X number of feet of the entrance of the facility. So some of them sent their kids to the front door with cups of water. The idea was for their kids to be arrested for violating the restraining order. Regardless of what you position was in the Shivo case, using your kids like that is just plain wrong.

As for the situation here, $150 or $275 does not buy much of a 1794 cent these days. Having said that I would not take a loss on the sale of a coin so that it could go to a junior collector. I think that young collectors show earn the coins they get so that they will appreciate them. I never got any breaks when I was kid.

Back when I took tables at the conventions of regional club in the northeast, the organization used to ask dealers to contribute to a YN meeting they had. One of the things that really galled me was that soon as the YN meeting was over, the kids were out on the bourse floor trying to sell the coins they had been given. We might as well have given the kids cash and been done with it.

Cladiator · June 22, 2006 5:37AM

Be on the look out for a 1794 Large Cent on eBay with a BIN of $275 any time now

holadude · June 22, 2006 5:44AM

I have a 3 month old daughter who really wants to start a Buffalo Gold bullion collection. She has $100 to spend. Can anyone help her out?

LanLord · June 22, 2006 5:51AM

Would a blond 25 year old with big boobs and real short shorts get a big discount?

holadude · June 22, 2006 5:53AM

If she was slabbed!

Kip · June 22, 2006 5:54AM

<< Would a blond 25 year old with big boobs and real short shorts get a big discount? >>

That would depend on what she wants me to do

Bochiman · June 22, 2006 6:01AM

<< Back when I took tables at the conventions of regional club in the northeast, the organization used to ask dealers to contribute to a YN meeting they had. One of the things that really galled me was that soon as the YN meeting was over, the kids were out on the bourse floor trying to sell the coins they had been given. We might as well have given the kids cash and been done with it. >>

Sorry to hear that BIll....that would burn me too

I know that at LB in Feb this year, they had a treasure hunt for YNs. I took my kid on that (I did the bourse the day before so I could do this) and he enjoyed the foreign coins as well as the other ones. When he got the slabbed "sample" coin, he loved that too. He does not, will not, get to sell stuff he gets for free. Also, at this stage, he doesn't understand that. He likes pretty coins, large coins, and cool coins. His favorite is a toned morgan from ER last year....he still talks about and shows that one.

CoinHusker · June 22, 2006 6:06AM

<< Anybody have a 12 year old I can borrow?

Russ, NCNE >>

I'll have to think about that one.

Coindexter · June 22, 2006 6:12AM

<< Anybody have a 12 year old I can borrow? >>

MAD4MORGANS · June 22, 2006 6:23AM

<< Anybody have a 12 year old I can borrow?

Russ, NCNE >>

robertpr · June 22, 2006 6:31AM

<< Anybody have a 12 year old I can borrow?

Russ, NCNE >>

Russ, I've seen your pic. If I did, you sure wouldn't be near him/her

CoinHusker · June 22, 2006 6:32AM

For a different perspective I'll add this. I'm sure there is a ton of that going on, but I know I keep an eye out for things that might interest Samuel when we are at shows and will often times bring him back to a table I've looked at to see if he's interested or not. Now for the "Can you lower the price for a YN". Never done it. I figure dealing with pricing is part of his education in the hobby too. However, if someone offers that's a different story all together.

Do people think I'm using Samuel to buy coins for myself? I've thought so and had that gut feeling at times too, but we're an unusual case so I don't let it bother me (most of the time). If anyone talks to Samuel for a while they figure it out pretty quick that he's his own collector with his own tastes and knowledge base. He looks young but thinks and talks older than he looks.

I'm sure parents use their kids but there are those rare exceptions however, when that is not the case.

lkenefic · June 22, 2006 6:44AM

<< Now for the "Can you lower the price for a YN". Never done it. I figure dealing with pricing is part of his education in the hobby too. >>

ABSOLUTELY!!!!!!!!!!! It's how I'm instilling a work ethic in my six year old. She has just gotten interested in collecting and wants to go the the local shop every weekend. She has also started doing more chores around the house for which she gets paid. When we go to our local coin shop...she spends her own money!

xphobe · June 22, 2006 6:54AM

The YN thing works both ways. My ten-year-old found a bucket of wheat cents with a sign that said "Kids grab a handful free!".

He got all excited about this, and asked the dealer if it mattered which hand he used. Of course the dealer said no.

He said "Well then I want to use my Dad's hand."

You probably smelled that coming, but it IS a true story. I'm proud to be raising my own little coin Ferengi.

lkenefic · June 22, 2006 7:15AM

wow...now that's one smart 10-year old!!!

MadMarty · June 22, 2006 7:27AM

<< Anybody have a 12 year old I can borrow?

Russ, NCNE >>

OK, Cameron!!!

Russ · June 22, 2006 8:25AM

There sure are a lot of smartasses around here.

Russ, NCNE

airplanenut · June 22, 2006 8:44AM

I remember the YN treatment... the discounts and the cold shoulders.

That said, nice as the discount was, I learned not to ask for a discount of any kind if I thought I was going to sell the coin--then I felt guilty. Of course, now I ask all the time, partly since I never know what I'm keeping or selling

ksteelheader · June 22, 2006 9:17AM

20 month old grandaughters work wonders!

Russ · June 22, 2006 9:19AM

<< That said, nice as the discount was, I learned not to ask for a discount of any kind if I thought I was going to sell the coin--then I felt guilty. >>

It's good to know that you grew out of that silliness.

Russ, NCNE

robertpr · June 22, 2006 10:51AM

<< There sure are a lot of smartasses around here.

Russ, NCNE >>

I read a great one-liner somewhere on these boards, something to the effect of "thanks for the late-breaking news" ....

OffMetal · June 22, 2006 11:12AM

I never asked for discounts because of the YN factor, but I did get some cheap freebees though when I just started out collecting...

Would anyone like to guess how I got into errors?

Julio · June 22, 2006 12:41PM

Would a blond 25 year old with big boobs and real short shorts get a big discount?

Depends on the dealer. She would probably get my whole collection!! I'm in trouble the wife knows how to use a computer.

airplanenut · June 22, 2006 1:42PM

<< 

<< That said, nice as the discount was, I learned not to ask for a discount of any kind if I thought I was going to sell the coin--then I felt guilty. >>

It's good to know that you grew out of that silliness.

Russ, NCNE >>

I also outgrew getting the YN discount

coinlieutenant · June 22, 2006 2:17PM

Russ,
ROTFLMAO

That is one of the all time best "oops, that came out wrong" questions of all time.

Definitely the best of 2006 so far.

ttxp · June 22, 2006 9:58PM

<< Would a blond 25 year old with big boobs and real short shorts get a big discount? >>

No. A skirt, black hose and heels works best. plus a charming disposition and some knowledge of what it is your looking at.

ms70 · June 22, 2006 10:05PM

A 54% discount is pretty big by any means!

TwoSides2aCoin · June 22, 2006 10:11PM

You sure don't need a kid to insult a dealer. Asking for a coin for half price whether you use a kid or not is CHEAP, CHEEZEY and just downright GENIUS. I'm glad it worked on anyone generous enough to sell their item out of compassion over profitablity. That's cool. Follow your conscience next time and put a sign up that says : "child labor laws are in effect at this table.... Violators will be SHOT !"

edit to add :
and by the way, Mitch.... Samuel deserves good treatment in the numismatic world. He is very respectful. I am sure this thread wasn't about him or you.

xphobe · June 22, 2006 11:55PM

<< A skirt, black hose and heels works best. plus a charming disposition and some knowledge of what it is your looking at. >>

I'm sure Russ would try that if he thought it would give him an advantage. He might even shave his legs.

'Course he'd have to work on the "charming disposition" part.

UncleJoe · June 22, 2006 11:59PM

No. A skirt, black hose and heels works best. plus a charming disposition and some knowledge of what it is your looking at.

The blond or the dealer?

Joe.

ttxp · June 23, 2006 12:09AM

<< The blond or the dealer? >>

The tactic doesn't work if the dealer is wearing such refinements. then of course you send hubby in for the kill, ROFL

And never, ever ask how much a coin is while you still have it in hand?

Using children for a better price? Mine would want the money in their own hand first, I probably would get neither the coin or my money back?

holadude · June 23, 2006 12:19AM

When I was about 15, I started collecting, adn I went to an auction every month at a local dealer. My dad always took me, but he doesn't collect. I won a couple SAE's and 1/10 GAE's they gave away as door prizes. I loved that part. When it came down to the auction, I am pretty sure some older bidders backed off at times when I was bidding. It was paper route money, so my big purchases were things like 1950-D nickles, and things in that price range.
That little bit of "help" really kept me interested in coin collecting. It didn't require $150 discounts. I like the handfull of pennies idea. Throw a couple semi-keys in there and you'll hook them for life.
At that auction, they would occasionally bring out a Whitman wheat penny folder or something like that and do a quick little auction for it. It was auctioned sight unseen, so it was a gamble. They would sometimes just give it to a youth for the opening bid of $2 or something like that. I got one once and it had every coin except 1909S, '09S-VDB, '14D, and '22plain.
I was in heaven!!!

OffMetal · June 23, 2006 12:33AM

It may be off-topic, but I would like to say...

Some YNs I know have big $$$ to burn, but some dealers look at YNs like they only have $10 to spend, and I feel it's wrong.

IndianHeadMan · June 23, 2006 2:40AM

Dealers can do what they want. It is their coin. They are big boys.

gamr0n · June 23, 2006 2:53AM

<< Anybody have a 12 year old I can borrow?

Russ, NCNE >>

If I shave you can borrow... eerr hire me for the right price.

Conder101 · June 23, 2006 4:19PM

<< The tactic doesn't work if the dealer is wearing such refinements. then of course you send hubby in for the kill, ROFL >>

If the dealer is wearing a skirt, black hose and heels (and is of he appropriate gender for sch things) and you send hubby in, that coin may wind up costing up a lot more.

Leiana · June 29, 2006 12:07AM

I'm a YN and I recently went to my first coin show (ANA Show in Atlanta) and I was really surprised that people were so nice to me and seemed interested in what I was looking for in my typeset. I know I got a few discounts, but I never asked for them. (No dicounts on a Gettysburg half, now that I could really use

) I met alot of great people that I was exhibiting against (My fist time and there wasn't a junior category!!) But I'm just saying that YNs matter too. We are the future of the hobby don't you know? However I was slightly perturbed when a dealer was surprised that I asked to see a seated dime and he confessed that he thought I was looking at the State Quarters.

But anyways.
I thought the YNs were treated well at the show. I was given some foreign coins (which I love) and a free Redbook after completing a trivia game. That was really very nice! I guess I'm saying that some YNs really appreciate older Numismatists giving us a leg up in the hobby.

Cheers,
Amanda

michael · June 29, 2006 4:46AM

Would a blond 25 year old with big boobs and real short shorts get a big discount?

depending on the size of her knockers she might get it for free

p8nt · June 29, 2006 4:57AM

Coming from a YN... I know there are quite a few people that have given me discounts or free things, all of which I appreciate. I have never expected it though and I never ask for a YN discount or the likes. There are many great people in this hobby (even some dealers!

) that do try to help YN's out. Whether they automatically give better prices to everyone, or because of the YN factor, I have not yet figured out.

All you adults listen up: I want my discount

NumisOxide · June 29, 2006 6:15AM

I'm a 17 year old YN. I think using a YN to get a cheaper price for a coin is plain wrong. I could see, if a dealer offers but if you ask him for a discount due to being a YN, I think that's wrong. Also, it's not good because the YN might be conditioned and expect a discount every time he goes to make a coin purchase. It's not setting a good example for the young collector.

BTW, I've never asked for a discount and I do not expect a dealer to give me one either. I never even haggled over a price. I believe in paying the stated price.

JrGMan2004 · June 29, 2006 6:55AM

Wow... but really, I'm no longer surprised at the greed people display...

On a side note, as a YN... I am very grateful for all the help I've gotten from older collectors and dealers and from the people of this forum... without this forum, I doubt that I would still be in this hobby... I also would not have been given the incredible oppurtunity of a job with an incredible dealer and incredible boss, and this job is quickly becoming my career...

BBN · June 29, 2006 7:11AM

<< 
Some YNs I know have big $$$ to burn, but some dealers look at YNs like they only have $10 to spend, and I feel it's wrong. >>

This is what turned me off from the first dealer I dealt with. He said in so many words that if I wasn't there to drop some huge cash on him I'm wasting his time. Actually that was the first incident. The one that broke it for me was when I asked to look at any 1909-s VDBs he had and he and his hang out buddy laughed and he said I didn't have that kind of money. Me being 30 yrs old at the time I guess he thought I drove a car there with a "Papa John's" banner on the top of it. Needless to say another local dealer has gotten all my birck and mortar business and he's been top notch to deal with...whether or not I came in to buy circulated stuff or drop a few hundred $$$ on him.

ddbird · June 29, 2006 7:29AM

Dealer did the right thing IMO.

Even if was being used by the little punk (if this is the case) he did his part to spread the hobby to the YN generation.

I almost always recieved discounts with my YN status, and I was always extremly grateful.

LIkewise, when I sell coins to YN, I normally take a loss on that sale just to give them a good price.
If they turn around and give it to their parents for their colelction...then they will get theirs in the end. I did my part to ensure the hobby will remain..somewhat.

Using kids for the YN sympathy factor

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