Subtract 1 or 2 grades for this NTC? (update / have coin)

JJM · May 30, 2006 5:55AM

Just a update if anyone cares,...got this coin today and cracked it out. The good news is the comments about halo around the stars was the photo I believe....The coin has much better detail on the rev feathers as well and displays some nice luster and flowlines. the downside is the coin was certainly dipped....Im personally calling the rev a 64 and the obv a 62 because the marks on the jaw are a little deeper and distracting personally than in the pic,....and recording it as a raw 62.
Overall pleased considering the pics
thx for those who chimmed in earlier

BTW, The nice original xf40 this one replaced in my date set happily moved over to my toned set

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grabbed this one to crackout to replace a XF40 in my raw set.....think its a 62?63?60?
Ive only got 1 or 2 other coins by NTC and they were both at least a grade over

dont have it in hand yet tho....

opinions always appreciated

DennisH · May 30, 2006 6:03AM

Looks AU58 to me.

Rampage · May 30, 2006 6:04AM

It kinda looks a little cleaned, no? On the obverse left stars, there appears to be a halo around stars 2-6, and around the chin of Liberty. How does it look in person? If me, I would grade it Unc Details, net AU58.

NumisOxide · May 30, 2006 6:06AM

It looks AU. There seems to be wear on the obverse.

messydesk · May 30, 2006 6:10AM

Looks like a polished BU.

JJM · May 30, 2006 6:12AM

I thought it may looked cleaned and some wear, but there seems to be some nice luster in the fields on the Rev, but the breast looks worn, might just be the angle.....for VF money, I guess I will see

JJM · May 30, 2006 6:13AM

so cleaned and 5-7 grades overgraded is par for the course at NTC????

Steve27 · May 30, 2006 6:14AM

IMO AU polished.

fc · May 30, 2006 6:15AM

polished. eagle's breast does not seem to be wear but polishing.

BECOKA · May 30, 2006 6:17AM

<< <i>polished. eagle's breast does not seem to be wear but polishing. >>

I was going to say the same thing, looks polished from the pics..

I have bought several NTC coins over the years for crossovers. The best and also average is downgrade by 2. I have had a few downgraded by 4 and a couple returned for altered surfaces.

LanLord · May 30, 2006 6:18AM

Looks buffed to me

JJM · May 30, 2006 6:20AM

I have had a few downgraded by 4

thats just poor quality for a company that is claiming to grade / certify coins, I kow there 3rd world but come on !!!
I might even have that beat here ! LOL

DennisH · May 30, 2006 6:25AM

"so cleaned and 5-7 grades overgraded is par for the course at NTC????"

No. In my experience this would rate as a huge extreme. I've actually had several Morgans cross (in the holder and out) within one grade at PCGS, although usually it's two.

Every service has its bad moments; this one just looks like a whopper.

BECOKA · May 30, 2006 6:26AM

<< <i>I have had a few downgraded by 4

thats just poor quality for a company that is claiming to grade / certify coins, I kow there 3rd world but come on !!!
I might even have that beat here ! LOL >>

I have found that they have a hard time distinguishing the difference between AU and MS. There are a bunch of AU58 gold coins that if there was no rub they would easily be MS62 or 63.

airplanenut · May 30, 2006 6:27AM

Color/lustre looks off = cleaned/polished

Break in lustre in front of face = AU

JJM · May 30, 2006 6:38AM

Guess I'll take a AU to fill the hole for VF money and the curiosity on the grading........Guess i'll update the thread ina week or so when I see it to update ya if we have as large a miss as it appears on the grade......

here's one of my other NTC's that I thought ended up being 63

BECOKA · May 30, 2006 6:40AM

<< <i>Guess I'll take a AU to fill the hole for VF money and the curiosity on the grading........Guess i'll update the thread ina week or so when I see it to update ya if we have as large a miss as it appears on the grade......

here's one of my other NTC's that I thought ended up being 63

>>

When you get to MS65+ NTC seems to be 1 or 2 points off. It is hit or miss so the pricing usually ends up in between the two lower grades.

rsdoug81 · May 30, 2006 6:42AM

AU58 cleaned

PerryHall · May 30, 2006 6:58AM

Looks BU to me (Been Used and Buffed Up).

SamByrd · May 30, 2006 1:15PM

I hate to sound harsh but why would you want a harshly cleaned au? Unless you bought it really cheap its not at all a good type set coin, ntc coins most of the time are problem or overgrades rarely will one get a decent coin. It is preferable to get a nice problem free example even in a lower legitimate grade.

RBinTex · May 30, 2006 4:40PM

AU details net XF45 (cleaned)

NTC is about the 2nd worst of the "real" (i.e. not homeade "centsless style" slabs) grading services after Accugrade.

I have MUCH better luck on SEGS when it comes to Morgans. Larry knows his stuff.

Myqqy · May 30, 2006 5:26PM

It looks like AU polished to me....

Rampage · May 30, 2006 8:29PM

As Dennis has stated, the 5-7 points is a bit extreme. I have bought several NTC coins that have crossed to PCGS within a point, and sometimes, although rare, right on the nose. Some people are relying way too much on the grade on the slab. BUY THE COIN, NOT THE SLAB! If you buy a nice quality coin in a third world slab, then you will not lose. But, if you are aimlessly buying slabs without considering the coin, then you will lose in the long run.

People seem to forget that these third world companies (even first tier companies) make mistakes in both directions. I've mentioned it on the message forums before, but will again for this. I bought a 1972 Type 2 IKE dollar graded AU50 in a PCI gold slab for CHEAP (e.g. less than $20 I think it was). It was obvious from the picture that the coin was undergraded. I cracked it out and sent it to PCGS where it graded MS63. That is a seven (7) point jump in the right direction.

With all the above being said, EVERY grading company has at least some "dogs" in their slabs. I've seen them in ALL slabs.

The most important thing is to have fun in what you enjoy collecting.

construct · May 30, 2006 9:23PM

My first thought was 58. Then I read all the posts about cleaning. Maybe so. The halo around the stars and on the field around the face troubles me. On the other hand the glare on the plastic makes me hopeful that the coin is probably better than the picture--not as washed out. Of course, the glare could obscure hits as well. I think 58 was right and possibly cleaned, but it's hard to tell.

I've examined only about 50 Indian Head Cents in NTC 63-66 slabs. Most of them I was ready to downgrade 2 points; a few more than that. I thought maybe two of them were graded correctly. Sometimes I thought they even got the color wrong.

If I were upgrading my EF-40 (which, BTW, is the grade of my own 1903), I think I'd be unhappy with anything less than a 63 or 64. Anything less would make my wonder why I bothered.

JJM · June 5, 2006 6:52AM

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Frankcoins · June 5, 2006 7:04AM

This coin has been lightly polished, probably with a cloth intended for polishing silverware.

Myqqy · June 5, 2006 7:43AM

If you can tell a coin has been dipped in a series that often comes white, then that would tell me that there's a good chance it's been overdipped- then I think it deserves a cleaned, net 60 label.....

Subtract 1 or 2 grades for this NTC? (update / have coin)

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